Auction House thievery Lelands style

[CuriousGeorge]

So this past week Lelands had an auction closing and I won one card for a total of $60K. After receiving the invoice which included $623.59 for shipping and insurance, I contacted them to question it since I has simultaneously received invoices from Heritage and REA with higher value for much less shipping costs.

A woman named Jillian Clinedinst eventually responded to tell me that after looking at the invoice "it looks like they gave (me) a break. $606.59 alone is just for insurance given the total of your invoice (1% of the total is insurance) so they really only charged (me) $17 to ship." She proceeded to tell me "I can have the insurance removed if it is a problem. I just need you to respond saying that provided the material is well packed, Lelands will not be held responsible for any damages or losses during shipping."

I then asked her if her company was purchasing specific insurance with Fedex for this particular package or just using their general liability policy. No response. I asked again and she eventually went through all of the math with Fedex showing their insurance rates and how they got to $623.59 shipping. She specifically then said "we purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex based on the value of the shipment." And that "We purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex." She also reminded me that if I sent an email like she had suggested previously, that all of the shipping charges would be removed but they would take no responsibility.

Next I got another email from her. Because I was such a "good client with (them) she had reached out to her President on my behalf. He just got back to her and approved a break on my insurance loweing it to $200. He said in the event of anything happening we will absorb the remaining insurance."

I paid the bill and the card came today. I call Fedex and no insurance was ever bought for the package. I email Jillian and she doesn't answer. I email again and now receive a call from her "because she's so busy with invoices it's easier this way." She tells me they didn't buy insurance on my package because I didn't want to pay the full amount.

It's pretty clear to me this company is just stealing money from everyone under the auspices of paying for insurance on each package. In this case it was only $600+ but extrapolating it out over many auctions and many years it sure adds up. The bigger question for me is if they find the need to be stealing money from us this way when it is so obvious to see, what are they doing to us when we're bidding and in their T&C allowed to bid on any lots? Does someone perhaps have that answer?

PS - I just saw Lelands is an advertiser here so sorry Leon. But with all the shenanigans going on in this industry it doesn't seem right to let this pass as decent.

[BruceinGa]

I would ask for the $200 to be refunded.

[thecomebacker]

I’ve never heard of $600 for shipping unless your card is a PSA 9 or 10 1952 mantle and they are delivering it with an armored truck. Thanks for the head-ups.

[hcv123]

That said, I was advised by an old friend and store owner that people often "bid against themselves". As a result of what my friend shared, I chose not to bid in their auctions for years. Recently I have, but am always wary. Never thought to question the insurance - that's pretty slimy!

[Fred]

If they don't purchase any insurance at all, then they would have to self-insure the packages. There's probably a very good chance a Fed-ex package is going to be delivered so perhaps they feel they'll bite the bullet if they have to.

As long as they cover the loss, then I guess they're doing the right thing in that respect.

Is it ethical? It's probably not that it's unethical more than it is a perception issue. If they lose you as a bidder, then my guess is they'll have paid the price.

Why not ask to speak with Josh Evans, I'm sure he'd take your call.

[calvindog]

Josh is awesome on the phone, I agree ❤️

[perezfan]

I suppose you could have driven to New Jersey, picked up the card yourself, and saved a bunch of money on Shipping/Insurance. Or you could've flown to NJ to pick it up, probably at about a "break-even" rate.

Seriously, these exorbitant shipping/insurance charges are something I've always been suspicious of... not necessarily with Lelands per se, but across all auction houses (REA excluded). At least it sounds like your card arrived safely and undamaged, which is lots better than the alternative.

[Rhotchkiss]

There are usually at least two sides to every story, but based solely on your side, it appears Leland’s flat out stole $200 from you; charging you for insurance they never procured. That’s no bueno. And, just stupid business. You buy a $60k card, likely pay immediately, and they do this? That’s what I call penny wise, pound foolish. I expect they lost you as a customer. Unfortunate all around.

Meanwhile, REA sent me a shipping confirmation the day after the auction ended, the cards came the next day, and If I paid shipping and/or insurance, it was peanuts. REA is a class act, they know how to do things, and they are pound wise.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

There are usually at least two sides to every story, but based solely on your side, it appears Leland’s flat out stole $200 from you; charging you for insurance they never procured. That’s no bueno. And, just stupid business. You buy a $60k card, likely pay immediately, and they do this? That’s what I call penny wise, pound foolish. I expect they lost you as a customer. Unfortunate all around.

Meanwhile, REA sent me a shipping confirmation the day after the auction ended, the cards came the next day, and If I paid shipping and/or insurance, it was peanuts. REA is a class act, they know how to do things, and they are pound wise.

REA is by far my favorite auction house. Brian is smart, not a pig and his is the only auction house which I don’t need to call to ask where my cards are. He takes a loss on shipping but he understands the value in keeping the customer happy. It shouldn’t be so difficult to not use shipping and insurance as a profit center but this is our hobby. In addition he doesn’t bid on his own lots and doesn’t have wildly misleading scans, both of which Heritage is guilty of and is unwilling to change.

[JeremyW]

I recently purchased a baseball for $1,000 through an auction house & ended up paying 1,334.00 for the ball all in. I figured the premium & S&H, but when does it not make sense to sell at an auction house?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

So this past week Lelands had an auction closing and I won one card for a total of $60K. After receiving the invoice which included $623.59 for shipping and insurance, I contacted them to question it since I has simultaneously received invoices from Heritage and REA with higher value for much less shipping costs.

A woman named Jillian Clinedinst eventually responded to tell me that after looking at the invoice "it looks like they gave (me) a break. $606.59 alone is just for insurance given the total of your invoice (1% of the total is insurance) so they really only charged (me) $17 to ship." She proceeded to tell me "I can have the insurance removed if it is a problem. I just need you to respond saying that provided the material is well packed, Lelands will not be held responsible for any damages or losses during shipping."

I then asked her if her company was purchasing specific insurance with Fedex for this particular package or just using their general liability policy. No response. I asked again and she eventually went through all of the math with Fedex showing their insurance rates and how they got to $623.59 shipping. She specifically then said "we purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex based on the value of the shipment." And that "We purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex." She also reminded me that if I sent an email like she had suggested previously, that all of the shipping charges would be removed but they would take no responsibility.

Next I got another email from her. Because I was such a "good client with (them) she had reached out to her President on my behalf. He just got back to her and approved a break on my insurance loweing it to $200. He said in the event of anything happening we will absorb the remaining insurance."

I paid the bill and the card came today. I call Fedex and no insurance was ever bought for the package. I email Jillian and she doesn't answer. I email again and now receive a call from her "because she's so busy with invoices it's easier this way." She tells me they didn't buy insurance on my package because I didn't want to pay the full amount.

It's pretty clear to me this company is just stealing money from everyone under the auspices of paying for insurance on each package. In this case it was only $600+ but extrapolating it out over many auctions and many years it sure adds up. The bigger question for me is if they find the need to be stealing money from us this way when it is so obvious to see, what are they doing to us when we're bidding and in their T&C allowed to bid on any lots? Does someone perhaps have that answer?

PS - I just saw Lelands is an advertiser here so sorry Leon. But with all the shenanigans going on in this industry it doesn't seem right to let this pass as decent.

Even if they had purchased 60k in insurance from Fed Ex they only cover collectibles up to $1,000 same with UPS. They won''t tell you that while purchasing the insurance though, just when you go to make the claim. It's in the fine print, but they take your money anyway.

[JackW]

My guess is an auction house that has been around as long as Lelands knows fully well the limitations of FedEx insurance on collectables.

[Peter_Spaeth]

From Fed Ex website.

For example, FedEx permits a maximum declared value up to $1,000 for the following items:
•Artwork
•Photos
•Glassware
•Jewelry
•Furs
•Precious metals
•Plasma screens
•Antiques
•Stocks, bonds, and cash equivalents
•Collectibles, such as coins or stamps
•Some musical instruments
•Models, such as dollhouses

[sbfinley]

In college I worked part time for a gem and mineral dealer (just over a decade ago) and the going rate of third party insurance for shipments was .75 per $100 through our contract so $600 on $60k doesn’t surprise me.

[Rhotchkiss]

So many worthy charities!

It’s one thing that they charged so much. However, my issue is that they told Steven they were buying insurance, charged him for it, but never bought the insurance. I mean that’s just flat out not right. I would like to hear from Lelands though.

[frankbmd]

Maybe Jillian was just joshing you.