Fake 1915 Cracker Jack in PSA holder...wow!

[CrackaJackKid]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392991975744

[biggsdaddycool]

I trust your assessment. For my own knowledge advancement, what stands out to you about this card that makes you believe it to be fake?

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scooter729]

Yeah, it looks like it even has perforations along the edges of the card!

Bottom edge of the PSA case looks pretty frosty - probably a crack out and slip this fugazi in there in its place? I know we all want to rip on PSA, but I don't think PSA would miss one like this....

[Donscards]

Yes that is a reprint Cracker Jack---case has been played with--Bad card for sure.

[CrackaJackKid]

I realize most are quick to defend PSA, but could someone please point out definitively where the case has been tampered with from the pics cause I’m not seeing it.

[tiger8mush]

plus the 1915's should have upside down backs.

[tiger8mush]

There are SO many things wrong with it - the colors, the borders, the edges, the image, the non upside down back, the color on the back - that I don't believe any TPG would encapsulate it.

Comparison ...

[3-2-count]

See post #33 in the below link

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=279704

[oldeboo]

I posted this in another thread, but here are some easy ones that alerted me.

[nsaddict]

Looks like a Dover reprint artificially aged. And this is a recent grade!

[CrackaJackKid]

Isn’t every card supposed to go through 3-4 different graders before leaving the facility? How does this happen on such a blatant fake?

[CobbSpikedMe]

I also tend to believe PSA wouldn't miss this one and that someone has slipped the reprint in and taken the real card out. This is too easily identified as a reprint.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I also tend to believe PSA wouldn't miss this one and that someone has slipped the reprint in and taken the real card out. This is too easily identified as a reprint.

The seller updated the listing. Wrote that this just came back recently.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jad22

The seller updated the listing. Wrote that this just came back recently.

It is hard to believe PSA slabbed that if they did.

[oldeboo]

Plot twist

Quoting the update:

"EDITED TO ADD: I have been contacted by a Cracker Jack card collector that this card is a fake. When I came across this card in my collection I wasn't 100% sure if the card was original or not, hence sending it off to PSA a few months back. Just got it back from them in the last week or so and what you see is exactly how I received it back from PSA. I thought part of their process was authentication, so I'm not sure what to think here, but it is not my intent to deceive, or in any way misrepresent this card, so please bear this information in mind as you bid."

[nsaddict]

Seller pulled auction!

[commishbob]

Gotta be a switched out card. Ray Charles would know that card is a Dover. Even a first-day-on-the-job grader couldn’t miss the perforation evidence. If PSA actually graded and slabbed that they should shut their doors.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I also tend to believe PSA wouldn't miss this one and that someone has slipped the reprint in and taken the real card out. This is too easily identified as a reprint.

Wouldn't that be incredibly hard with the new holders? I have only saved a few cards from the new holders and it wasn't a breeze like the old ones that would fall apart easily.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Wouldn't that be incredibly hard with the new holders? I have only saved a few cards from the new holders and it wasn't a breeze like the old ones that would fall apart easily.

Extremely challenging I'd guess to crack those holders open and leave no trace of tampering.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Gotta be a switched out card. Ray Charles would know that card is a Dover. Even a first-day-on-the-job grader couldn’t miss the perforation evidence. If PSA actually graded and slabbed that they should shut their doors.

I posted this in the other thread concerning the 1914 Cracker Jacks. It's either a case of PSA messing up, or the reproduction of a genuine slab is getting so good at this point that, unless your an expert, you're not going to be able to tell.

I want to give the seller the benefit of the doubt, especially considering he pulled the auction but wow, this is not a good luck for PSA if this error was on them. Trimmed and Altered cards, receiving number grades were bad enough as it is, if they're slabbing fakes as real, then this opens up a whole new can of worms.

[tiger8mush]

Everything else he is selling is mid/late 80s & newer. Its the only PSA card he's selling, and nothing else he's sold was graded by PSA.

Was this the only card he submitted? How did it get into his collection? When did it get artificially aged?

Now that he's pulled the auction, what will be done with the card?

[CrackaJackKid]

I 100% believe the seller. This just shows PSAs lack of incompetence. The seller should be making his way in here soon to clear things up for all the doubters.

[ullmandds]

a dover reprint should never fool anyone let alone a TPG'er esp if one is able to physically hold the raw card in their hand. The stock is nothing like a real card...and the perforations...c'mon!!!!!!

the holder is scary good...and if PSA did in fact grade this...they should be taken out back.


https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcar...s_it_story_in/

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

a dover reprint should never fool anyone let alone a TPG'er esp if one is able to physically hold the raw card in their hand. The stock is nothing like a real card...and the perforations...c'mon!!!!!!

the holder is scary good...and if PSA did in fact grade this...they should be taken out back.


https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcar...s_it_story_in/

There's your smoking gun!!! Great find! UNREAL

[nsaddict]

My opinion, NOT a switch-a-roo. Just a bad mistake by TPG. They’ve been so swamped with orders and have hired new help. I doubt most were qualified to begin with and probably feel pressure to grade x amount of cards per day. And this card bears the result.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

There are SO many things wrong with it - the colors, the borders, the edges, the image, the non upside down back, the color on the back - that I don't believe any TPG would encapsulate it.

Guess I was wrong.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Now that he's pulled the auction, what will be done with the card?

If PSA truly slabbed it as presented, I would think that PSA would offer a decent sum to get it back, take it out of the slab and off the market. And I would think that some PSA detractor might offer a decent sum to add it to their collection as a unique piece that shows how bad grading can possibly be.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

Isn’t every card supposed to go through 3-4 different graders before leaving the facility? How does this happen on such a blatant fake?

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

[conor912]

Regardless of the source, I would think PSA would want to get their hands on that thing to inspect it. Either way, it's scary.

[Kutcher55]

Hard to think PSA would grade that as authentic. Seriously doubt it.

[oldeboo]

You could post a video of someone putting that card inside the slab, a clearly identified person, and most would deny it. Why?

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

I’m the one who started the thread. I have read it. And no where does it definitively say it was someone maliciously altering the slab. I’ve been in contact with the original owner. He will be coming on here soon to set the record straight.

[DWS44]

Hello Everyone…I’m Dave Smith (aka DWS44), the thoroughly embarrassed owner of that 1915 Cracker Jack Connie Mack Card…or whatever the heck it really is. A nice person who contacted me via ebay this morning to tip me off let me know that news of my card was spreading through the forums and was kind enough to send me a link to this post. I just joined your forum so I could explain this situation as it has unfolded this morning.

Some quick background. I was a big card collector starting around late 1986 through the 90s during my teen years and into college. During the time I put together quite a collection, and with my parents, also owned/operated a successful card shop through most of the 90s in Johnson City, TN. After college I got into other things and when I moved to Charlotte in 1999, I packed up the card collection and the vast majority I hadn’t touched until this spring. Like a lot of others, Covid suddenly gave me more time at home to play with cards and start getting things ready to sell. As some noted above, a majority of my collection was of the 80s/90s era, but I did have a fair number of older cards as well. IOW, I’m not a newbie to card collecting…just maybe a little rusty. In fact, I have already sold complete sets of 1959 and 1961 Topps cards and a few other older singles on ebay, with positive feedback on those listings, if you’re bored enough to want to search my feedback. I’ve been buying and selling on ebay since the late 90s. I ALWAYS do my best to be honest in my dealings and in my listing descriptions. That’s how I was raised, how we ran our card shop, and how I try to operate in life.

Now…the Cracker Jack card. I ran across this card back in the spring with some of my older cards. The best I recall, we found this card in a large collection of cards we bought back in the card shop days, so it’s been in my collection since at least the mid 90s. I kept it in my collection for the coolness factor of being the “oldest” card in my collection, though I had never really considered or verified its originality. It looked old, and that was cool enough for teenage me. Fast Forward to present and me selling things. I know enough to know that counterfeiting has always been a thing, and since I didn’t know the originality of this card, I tried to do some research. I understand some may have found a Reddit post that I made back in the spring trying to learn more about the card. I hang around some other Reddit groups, so that was where I thought to ask. Consensus from a handful that responded was that it was probably a fake but suggested that I probably needed to send to PSA to know for sure.

As for PSA…some noted that I had not listed anything else that is PSA graded. Back in our collecting and card shop days, PSA grading was not as big of a “thing” as it has since evolved into. I had never been through the PSA process. When I decided to start selling the collection, I decided I was not going to start going through all that, though I probably could have sold some of my bigger cards (Jordan, Griffey, Jeter RCs) for considerably more. I just didn’t want to chance damage to the cards in shipping or wait several months for them to come back. With respect to the unknowns on the Cracker Jack card, I figured what the heck…I’ll at least be able to experience the process, and then I’ll know for sure what I have and can list it safely knowing what it is.

I sent the card off on June 8th. In the paperwork, I specifically stated that I wasn’t sure if the card was original or not. I received the card back on October 13th. I thought that part of the PSA grading process was authentication and that they would not grade reprint or counterfeit cards. Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, but I swear on a stack of Bibles that what you all see in those pictures is exactly what I received back from PSA. 100% unaltered. There was no mention in the paperwork of it being a reprint/counterfeit/fake, so I assumed it was actually a real, original, card and last night I got around to posting it for sale. I wake up this morning to a message from the person I mention above that the card was an obvious a fake. The person seemed sincere, so I went to cancel the auction, but found I already had a few bids. I then added the addendum you all posted above that it may be a fake despite the PSA grading and I also contacted the person who was high bidder at the time if they wanted to retract their bid. My first instinct was to leave it that way, let people decide for themselves if they still wanted whatever it is, and figured that would probably kill bidder interest anyways. As the morning progressed, I continued getting bids, as well as more people contacting me that it was obviously a fake, found out about my listing being posted and discussed at forums, people tracking info about me, etc. That’s when I just cancelled the bid and ate the ebay fees to do so.

So…there it is. The full story. I apologize for any misunderstandings about the list, but like I said…it is not my intent to misrepresent or mislead anyone. There is absolutely no way I would intentionally tamper with a PSA case or swap in a fake card to try to make a buck. That is not how I operate. I’m rather proud of have 20+ years of 100% feedback on ebay and other forums that I’ve sold items. Reading comments here are enough to turn my stomach, and I am embarrassed for posting something for sale that would put me in that light with collectors. I would take my collection out in the back yard and set it on fire before I’d want people to think I’m dishonest or a scammer. And I’m pretty sure that my first dealing with PSA will also be my last. Uggh. For the record, I have also contacted PSA over the matter, but the autoresponse I got back said it would probably be five days before I would get any response.

If you read all that…thank you for your time. I hope that explains the situation better for you all. If you have been following this on other forums, I would welcome you to extend a link to my explanation to the other sites as well.

[mechanicalman]

1.5? PSA is so harsh on fake CJs.

[wondo]

I’m sure the original owner has the original submission paperwork / electronic record to back up the submission claim - amazing.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by DWS44

Hello Everyone…I’m Dave Smith (aka DWS44), the thoroughly embarrassed owner of that 1915 Cracker Jack Connie Mack Card…or whatever the heck it really is. A nice person who contacted me via ebay this morning to tip me off let me know that news of my card was spreading through the forums and was kind enough to send me a link to this post. I just joined your forum so I could explain this situation as it has unfolded this morning.

Some quick background. I was a big card collector starting around late 1986 through the 90s during my teen years and into college. During the time I put together quite a collection, and with my parents, also owned/operated a successful card shop through most of the 90s in Johnson City, TN. After college I got into other things and when I moved to Charlotte in 1999, I packed up the card collection and the vast majority I hadn’t touched until this spring. Like a lot of others, Covid suddenly gave me more time at home to play with cards and start getting things ready to sell. As some noted above, a majority of my collection was of the 80s/90s era, but I did have a fair number of older cards as well. IOW, I’m not a newbie to card collecting…just maybe a little rusty. In fact, I have already sold complete sets of 1959 and 1961 Topps cards and a few other older singles on ebay, with positive feedback on those listings, if you’re bored enough to want to search my feedback. I’ve been buying and selling on ebay since the late 90s. I ALWAYS do my best to be honest in my dealings and in my listing descriptions. That’s how I was raised, how we ran our card shop, and how I try to operate in life.

Now…the Cracker Jack card. I ran across this card back in the spring with some of my older cards. The best I recall, we found this card in a large collection of cards we bought back in the card shop days, so it’s been in my collection since at least the mid 90s. I kept it in my collection for the coolness factor of being the “oldest” card in my collection, though I had never really considered or verified its originality. It looked old, and that was cool enough for teenage me. Fast Forward to present and me selling things. I know enough to know that counterfeiting has always been a thing, and since I didn’t know the originality of this card, I tried to do some research. I understand some may have found a Reddit post that I made back in the spring trying to learn more about the card. I hang around some other Reddit groups, so that was where I thought to ask. Consensus from a handful that responded was that it was probably a fake but suggested that I probably needed to send to PSA to know for sure.

As for PSA…some noted that I had not listed anything else that is PSA graded. Back in our collecting and card shop days, PSA grading was not as big of a “thing” as it has since evolved into. I had never been through the PSA process. When I decided to start selling the collection, I decided I was not going to start going through all that, though I probably could have sold some of my bigger cards (Jordan, Griffey, Jeter RCs) for considerably more. I just didn’t want to chance damage to the cards in shipping or wait several months for them to come back. With respect to the unknowns on the Cracker Jack card, I figured what the heck…I’ll at least be able to experience the process, and then I’ll know for sure what I have and can list it safely knowing what it is.

I sent the card off on June 8th. In the paperwork, I specifically stated that I wasn’t sure if the card was original or not. I received the card back on October 13th. I thought that part of the PSA grading process was authentication and that they would not grade reprint or counterfeit cards. Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, but I swear on a stack of Bibles that what you all see in those pictures is exactly what I received back from PSA. 100% unaltered. There was no mention in the paperwork of it being a reprint/counterfeit/fake, so I assumed it was actually a real, original, card and last night I got around to posting it for sale. I wake up this morning to a message from the person I mention above that the card was an obvious a fake. The person seemed sincere, so I went to cancel the auction, but found I already had a few bids. I then added the addendum you all posted above that it may be a fake despite the PSA grading and I also contacted the person who was high bidder at the time if they wanted to retract their bid. My first instinct was to leave it that way, let people decide for themselves if they still wanted whatever it is, and figured that would probably kill bidder interest anyways. As the morning progressed, I continued getting bids, as well as more people contacting me that it was obviously a fake, found out about my listing being posted and discussed at forums, people tracking info about me, etc. That’s when I just cancelled the bid and ate the ebay fees to do so.

So…there it is. The full story. I apologize for any misunderstandings about the list, but like I said…it is not my intent to misrepresent or mislead anyone. There is absolutely no way I would intentionally tamper with a PSA case or swap in a fake card to try to make a buck. That is not how I operate. I’m rather proud of have 20+ years of 100% feedback on ebay and other forums that I’ve sold items. Reading comments here are enough to turn my stomach, and I am embarrassed for posting something for sale that would put me in that light with collectors. I would take my collection out in the back yard and set it on fire before I’d want people to think I’m dishonest or a scammer. And I’m pretty sure that my first dealing with PSA will also be my last. Uggh. For the record, I have also contacted PSA over the matter, but the autoresponse I got back said it would probably be five days before I would get any response.

If you read all that…thank you for your time. I hope that explains the situation better for you all. If you have been following this on other forums, I would welcome you to extend a link to my explanation to the other sites as well.

Can we see copy of the paperwork from PSA?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DWS44

Hello Everyone…I’m Dave Smith (aka DWS44), the thoroughly embarrassed owner of that 1915 Cracker Jack Connie Mack Card…or whatever the heck it really is. A nice person who contacted me via ebay this morning to tip me off let me know that news of my card was spreading through the forums and was kind enough to send me a link to this post. I just joined your forum so I could explain this situation as it has unfolded this morning.

Some quick background. I was a big card collector starting around late 1986 through the 90s during my teen years and into college. During the time I put together quite a collection, and with my parents, also owned/operated a successful card shop through most of the 90s in Johnson City, TN. After college I got into other things and when I moved to Charlotte in 1999, I packed up the card collection and the vast majority I hadn’t touched until this spring. Like a lot of others, Covid suddenly gave me more time at home to play with cards and start getting things ready to sell. As some noted above, a majority of my collection was of the 80s/90s era, but I did have a fair number of older cards as well. IOW, I’m not a newbie to card collecting…just maybe a little rusty. In fact, I have already sold complete sets of 1959 and 1961 Topps cards and a few other older singles on ebay, with positive feedback on those listings, if you’re bored enough to want to search my feedback. I’ve been buying and selling on ebay since the late 90s. I ALWAYS do my best to be honest in my dealings and in my listing descriptions. That’s how I was raised, how we ran our card shop, and how I try to operate in life.

Now…the Cracker Jack card. I ran across this card back in the spring with some of my older cards. The best I recall, we found this card in a large collection of cards we bought back in the card shop days, so it’s been in my collection since at least the mid 90s. I kept it in my collection for the coolness factor of being the “oldest” card in my collection, though I had never really considered or verified its originality. It looked old, and that was cool enough for teenage me. Fast Forward to present and me selling things. I know enough to know that counterfeiting has always been a thing, and since I didn’t know the originality of this card, I tried to do some research. I understand some may have found a Reddit post that I made back in the spring trying to learn more about the card. I hang around some other Reddit groups, so that was where I thought to ask. Consensus from a handful that responded was that it was probably a fake but suggested that I probably needed to send to PSA to know for sure.

As for PSA…some noted that I had not listed anything else that is PSA graded. Back in our collecting and card shop days, PSA grading was not as big of a “thing” as it has since evolved into. I had never been through the PSA process. When I decided to start selling the collection, I decided I was not going to start going through all that, though I probably could have sold some of my bigger cards (Jordan, Griffey, Jeter RCs) for considerably more. I just didn’t want to chance damage to the cards in shipping or wait several months for them to come back. With respect to the unknowns on the Cracker Jack card, I figured what the heck…I’ll at least be able to experience the process, and then I’ll know for sure what I have and can list it safely knowing what it is.

I sent the card off on June 8th. In the paperwork, I specifically stated that I wasn’t sure if the card was original or not. I received the card back on October 13th. I thought that part of the PSA grading process was authentication and that they would not grade reprint or counterfeit cards. Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, but I swear on a stack of Bibles that what you all see in those pictures is exactly what I received back from PSA. 100% unaltered. There was no mention in the paperwork of it being a reprint/counterfeit/fake, so I assumed it was actually a real, original, card and last night I got around to posting it for sale. I wake up this morning to a message from the person I mention above that the card was an obvious a fake. The person seemed sincere, so I went to cancel the auction, but found I already had a few bids. I then added the addendum you all posted above that it may be a fake despite the PSA grading and I also contacted the person who was high bidder at the time if they wanted to retract their bid. My first instinct was to leave it that way, let people decide for themselves if they still wanted whatever it is, and figured that would probably kill bidder interest anyways. As the morning progressed, I continued getting bids, as well as more people contacting me that it was obviously a fake, found out about my listing being posted and discussed at forums, people tracking info about me, etc. That’s when I just cancelled the bid and ate the ebay fees to do so.

So…there it is. The full story. I apologize for any misunderstandings about the list, but like I said…it is not my intent to misrepresent or mislead anyone. There is absolutely no way I would intentionally tamper with a PSA case or swap in a fake card to try to make a buck. That is not how I operate. I’m rather proud of have 20+ years of 100% feedback on ebay and other forums that I’ve sold items. Reading comments here are enough to turn my stomach, and I am embarrassed for posting something for sale that would put me in that light with collectors. I would take my collection out in the back yard and set it on fire before I’d want people to think I’m dishonest or a scammer. And I’m pretty sure that my first dealing with PSA will also be my last. Uggh. For the record, I have also contacted PSA over the matter, but the autoresponse I got back said it would probably be five days before I would get any response.

If you read all that…thank you for your time. I hope that explains the situation better for you all. If you have been following this on other forums, I would welcome you to extend a link to my explanation to the other sites as well.

Thanks for the back up story.
Unbelievable on PSA's part in authenticating it. It's not even a good looking fake. At least it could almost look real but to anyone that has ever actually seen one it isn't even a close call to being real. PSA apologists get in line here...let's hear how great they are.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Can we see copy of the paperwork from PSA?

People still wouldn't believe it.

Thank you to the seller for coming here to tell your story. Don't take anything that anyone says personally. There is a group of people that will defend third party graders like they are family, for some reason.

Stay around awhile and check out the site some, I'm sure you'll find some interesting content.

[DWS44]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Can we see copy of the paperwork from PSA?

Sure. Here are the two sheets that were in the package with the card. I blanked out my street address, phone# and credit card info, but otherwise, this it is: https://imgur.com/a/rNMkdWM

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by DWS44

Sure. Here are the two sheets that were in the package with the card. I blanked out my street address, phone# and credit card info, but otherwise, this it is: https://imgur.com/a/rNMkdWM

thx I appreciate you showing that...a poor reflection on PSA.

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for the back up story.
Unbelievable on PSA's part in authenticating it. It's not even a good looking fake. At least it could almost look real but to anyone that has ever actually seen one it isn't even a close call to being real. PSA apologists get in line here...let's hear how great they are.

+1000000

I’m ready myself.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

Excellent idea.

[conor912]

Wow. That paperwork looks legit. This isn't even a "is it altered/is it not, he said/she said" situation. That card is as fake as fake gets.

[Jgrace]

Unbelievable. It’s such an obvious fake I can’t even wrap my head around it. The perforations alone...

Reinforces the need to do your homework on slabbed cards. Caveat emptor, etc.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Excellent idea.

Only the best suggestions....

[swarmee]

For posterity. Before they zero out the cert number...

[JollyElm]

Can someone explain the perforations issue to us non-CJ collectors? In the comparison graphic posted, it looks like both the 'real' card and the Dover reprint have perforations, just to a different extent. Is that the case, or do the originals have no perforations...or is it something else??

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Can someone explain the perforations issue to us non-CJ collectors? In the comparison graphic posted, it looks like both the 'real' card and the Dover reprint have perforations, just to a different extent. Is that the case, or do the originals have no perforations...or is it something else??

A genuine card is just a normal straight cut like most other cards. The Dover reprints have the perforations. Printing anomalies are also very easy to pickup on the Dover reprints. Here is an example from Ebay of how the Dover cards came, I believe. You could easily tear them apart at the perforations if desired.

In the comparison above in this thread, a known Dover is being compared to the questionable card. Well not really questionable, honestly.

It's a common trick for scammers to stain these cards, trim the edges, and rub off where it says REPRINT and stain over that spot to trick the unsuspected. Whoever doctored this one just chose to rub the perforation nubs down a little instead of trimming.

[JollyElm]

But, I'm confused. Here is the graphic I mentioned. The 'real' card situated above the 'Dover Reprint' seems to have perforations across the top...

Mack Fake 2.jpg

[swarmee]

Both cards in the image are fake. The top one is the one in the PSA slab...

To add: the texture/cardstock between the two cards is also immediately noticeable if you have them in your hands. It's completely ridiculous that PSA authenticated this reprint from 60 years newer. It would probably fluoresce under a black light because of the whitening in the card as well. Just atrocious!