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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1  
Old 12-13-2015, 06:33 PM
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Default Complete set of 1972 Venezuelan stamps/stickers

Anyone familiar with the 1972 Venezuelan stamps/stickers? Found an entire album full of them in my father's collection today. Only missing two of 242 to complete the set. Last two Nolan Ryan PSA 1's sold for $810 and, incredibly $3,224 respectively. Other than that I can't find much info or a record of a complete set selling anywhere.

Here are a few pages including the Ryan stamp/sticker at the bottom:












Last edited by TCMA; 12-13-2015 at 06:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2015, 06:59 PM
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Awesome! Of course it is missing the Jose Cardenal card, I still have never seen one.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:07 PM
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Several of these 1972 Venezuelan cards, including commons, have been counterfeited in the last few years and sold either unwittingly or unscrupulously on eBay by a seller in Venezuela. As far as I can tell all of yours are the real deal, though. Amazing.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2015, 07:21 PM
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Default 1972

Great family item to have
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2015, 07:43 PM
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pm sent. amazing find!
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2015, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
Several of these 1972 Venezuelan cards, including commons, have been counterfeited in the last few years and sold either unwittingly or unscrupulously on eBay by a seller in Venezuela. As far as I can tell all of yours are the real deal, though. Amazing.
Hi Cliff, thanks for the info. These were sent to my father in 1978 by another collector. I found the album in an envelope with a letter the other collector wrote regarding a trade they were making, presumably for TCMA items and publications.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2015, 09:27 PM
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The album that these are glued onto was obviously made for this set with the blank spot for #87 Jose Cardenal. Is there a cover or a front page for the album?
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2015, 09:30 PM
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Would you mind posting or sending me a scan of the Garvey close up? As close as you can get it w/o affecting the quality of the image? thanks.
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2015, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
The album that these are glued onto was obviously made for this set with the blank spot for #87 Jose Cardenal. Is there a cover or a front page for the album?
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2015, 01:43 AM
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Default Nice find

The album itself looks legit, but the cards look like the counterfeits. The bright white borders look too bright white, and the pictures are too blurred to see if the font matches the authentic font.

If you look at these under a loupe, if the green backgrounds are all printed in half tone (tiny dots), they are fake. The authentic cards are printed with flat layers of yellow and blue to create the green. The real ones also do not have perfectly square edges to the green background. These appear to be all squared up on the album examples.

Last edited by a761506; 12-15-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2015, 07:54 AM
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Default Josh - is it possible?

There has been some speculation in past discussion about the possibility of 2 different printings vs. counterfeiting. I saw also in the scans 2 distinct printing styles/fonts, etc. All pasted in the original album, including commons? I think at the very least it begs further inspection and question.

Howard
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
There has been some speculation in past discussion about the possibility of 2 different printings vs. counterfeiting. I saw also in the scans 2 distinct printing styles/fonts, etc. All pasted in the original album, including commons? I think at the very least it begs further inspection and question.

Howard
There are two different fonts because all of the "En Accion" stickers have the smaller font. Other than that all of the regular player stickers have the standard bold font.

I have heard about the counterfeits but apparently those were done recently, within the past few years. This book has been sitting in filing cabinet with the original letter of provenance, since 1978.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a761506 View Post
The album itself looks legit, but the cards look like the counterfeits. The bright white borders look too bright white as well as the font not matching the authentic font.
They look the same as this Ryan:

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  #14  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:44 AM
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A close up from the album:

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  #15  
Old 12-15-2015, 09:27 AM
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Does anybody know how or why they chose the picture to use?

Some of the stickers have the same photo as the regular 72 Topps cards.

Many however have completely different photos.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2015, 10:37 AM
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I bought a couple of these back in the 1970s along with some Puerto Rican cards from Wirt Gammon. These look exactly like the ones I purchased, very little chance of them being counterfeit.

What is the story on the Cardenal? Scarce or never printed?
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2015, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
I bought a couple of these back in the 1970s along with some Puerto Rican cards from Wirt Gammon. These look exactly like the ones I purchased, very little chance of them being counterfeit.

What is the story on the Cardenal? Scarce or never printed?
That's a good question. I can't seem to find a picture of one online, or the other missing sticker, Gonzalo Marquez.
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2015, 12:53 PM
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Also, no one should assume if one of these is in a PSA holder, they're authentic. Most graded by PSA are the fakes. Most available on the market are also fakes.

The key is the printing and the alignment of the green borders. If it's half tone green, they are fakes. There's a post on CU about these and I made a chart showing the real and counterfeit fonts. Search for the thread.

The two different printers story was once somewhat believed but it is extremely likely false.

Last edited by a761506; 12-15-2015 at 02:10 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2015, 01:45 PM
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There's a post on CU about these and I made a chart showing the real and counterfeit fonts. Search for the thread.
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  #20  
Old 12-15-2015, 05:37 PM
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is that psa 1 ryan for sale? if so, pm please....
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2015, 11:27 PM
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Not sure if you missed it, but I would love to have a nice larger scan of the garvey from your album if you don't mind. I have one, but it appears to be one of the suspect copies and would like to compare yours to the one I have. thanks. @TCMA


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Last edited by mrmopar; 12-16-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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  #22  
Old 12-17-2015, 09:30 AM
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Default 1972

I have no expertise in this area, but if I ever had a question, Josh would be my go to guy. His collection of Venezuelan issues is second to none

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 12-17-2015 at 09:31 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2016, 04:31 PM
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Well, the album is on it's way to REA for inclusion in the 2016 Spring auction. Should be fun to watch .
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2016, 05:05 PM
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Default Brooks Robinson

I don't see the Brooksie? Am I missing something?!?
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2016, 07:33 PM
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I don't see the Brooksie? Am I missing something?!?
He's the second to last card in the set and on the last page of the album. I'll post a pic for you in the AM tomorrow.
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  #26  
Old 01-07-2016, 11:56 AM
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I don't see the Brooksie? Am I missing something?!?
Here ya go:

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  #27  
Old 01-07-2016, 05:21 PM
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Default Brooks Robinson

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Here ya go:

Thanks so much for posting; thought you may be missing this particular stamp. I'm glad, even in Venezuela, they "save the best for last"...page.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2016, 06:43 PM
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Auction for the album is now live!! Happy bidding

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=40158
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2020, 07:12 PM
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Auction for the album is now live!! Happy bidding

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=40158
Digging up an oldie. Final price under $1,700. Someone got a great price. Anyone on here win the album?
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2020, 08:53 PM
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Digging up an oldie. Final price under $1,700. Someone got a great price. Anyone on here win the album?
Oh yes, our friend Toppsaholic. He got a fantastic deal. He cut up the whole album and soaked the cards and put them on eBay. Quite a few sold but he still has many of them left. I bought every Cub except one and I'm sure that paid for over half of his investment just on those alone, but they are so rare that I didn't really have any choice.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 72 ven santo.jpg (38.3 KB, 289 views)
File Type: jpg 72 ven santo in action.jpg (42.4 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg 72 ven hickman.jpg (38.5 KB, 290 views)
File Type: jpg 72 ven decker.jpg (40.7 KB, 287 views)
File Type: jpg 72 ven breeden.jpg (38.5 KB, 285 views)
File Type: jpg 72 ven hamilton.jpg (37.0 KB, 286 views)
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Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 08-21-2020 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Added scans
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  #31  
Old 08-22-2020, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
Oh yes, our friend Toppsaholic. He got a fantastic deal. He cut up the whole album and soaked the cards and put them on eBay. Quite a few sold but he still has many of them left. I bought every Cub except one and I'm sure that paid for over half of his investment just on those alone, but they are so rare that I didn't really have any choice.
Your stamps look great.
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  #32  
Old 10-20-2020, 12:42 PM
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Has anyone noticed the 1972 Venezuelan Nolan Ryan PSA 5 recently listed on eBay? Is this the real one or the other? I’m looking at the lettering and this card looks like the “knock off” Any thoughts?
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  #33  
Old 10-20-2020, 03:28 PM
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That PSA 5 1972 Topps Venezuelan Nolan Ryan is counterfeit. There is a PSA 1 Topps Venezuelan Nolan Ryan on eBay that is the real deal. I don’t believe I have ever seen an authentic 1972 Topps Venezuelan that didn’t have evidence of being removed from an album and won’t grade higher than 1-Poor. ETA: of course it is being sold by PWCC.
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Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 10-20-2020 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Addition
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  #34  
Old 10-20-2020, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
That PSA 5 1972 Topps Venezuelan Nolan Ryan is counterfeit. There is a PSA 1 Topps Venezuelan Nolan Ryan on eBay that is the real deal. I don’t believe I have ever seen an authentic 1972 Topps Venezuelan that didn’t have evidence of being removed from an album and won’t grade higher than 1-Poor. ETA: of course it is being sold by PWCC.
That’s what I thought. Thanks.
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  #35  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:10 AM
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Default 72 venez ryan

The counterfeit sold by pwcc went for 1550
Pwcc knows that its counterfeit and sold it anyway
If buyer complains they tell him to get his money back from psa....hell of a racket
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  #36  
Old 10-29-2020, 12:40 PM
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Pwcc just contacted me and said they've notified the buyer and canceled the transaction
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  #37  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:48 PM
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Pwcc just contacted me and said they've notified the buyer and canceled the transaction
Holy sh*t!!! ETA: Thinking it over, I’m calling BS on PWCC. I think the consignor was very disappointed in the final price and lost money on his investment and asked PWCC to cancel the sale.
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Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 10-29-2020 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Addition
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Old 10-29-2020, 06:44 PM
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That's possible...or they're just lying and they did sell it
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  #39  
Old 10-29-2020, 07:52 PM
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I've got a bunch of these fake 72's all in PSA holders... I was initially duped by the fakes, greedy really- often the case when a man is stolen from with him willingly handing over his own money...

The story began with a Yastrzemski, whose condition seemed exceptional, unlike any other card I had ever seen from that set. I submitted it, it was graded PSA 5. The seller now had more listed, and I honestly believed a find of pack fresh 72 stamps had been discovered, which seemed plausible considering other finds I have made over the years. Thinking I had a nice find on my hands, I proceeded to buy up several more of them from a seller in Venezuela, Gilberto Gil (to this day, I do not know whether he was in on it or just an unwitting shill). PSA graded them all - Ryan 3, Kaline 6, Carew 8, Carew IA 5, B. Robinson 5, F. Robinson 5, Killebrew 3, Marichal 3, Concepcion 1, Concepcion IA 2... that's 11 total.

Some time later, a thread surfaced on CU (I believe) claiming the cards were all fakes. My first reaction, in my youth, was to ignorantly talk out my behind. I initially defended the legitimacy of the cards, honestly believing they were real, PSA had graded them, while also thinking, who in their right mind would counterfeit this set, and where would they even find the originals to copy them from? Respectfully, whoever did it, all considering, did a really impressive job and choosing this particular set was a pretty smart decision (based on their criminal intentions). I'm guessing I was one of the leading suckers who paid them off, as I sent them over $3,000 for the 11 cards mentioned, a monster payday for someone in Venezuela who probably invested 40-100 hours into creating the counterfeits (I believe they may have counterfeited every single card in the set, certainly most of them if not all, a smart move for the added credibility it gave when selling off the stars).

I took the cards with me to a National (I don't recall the year), showed them to PSA along with documented prices I paid and requested they buy them back and compensate me for the grading and shipping fees as well. Instead, the cards were returned to me in the holders, PSA claimed they cannot prove or disprove their authenticity (even though I also gave them a couple exemplars of 72 stamps which were clearly authentic and a complete description of exactly every aspect of the cards which proved they were not from the original 72 issue), and I've been stuck with them ever since, as I would never attempt to sell off cards I know to be counterfeits.

Now, I don't know what to do with them, and I do think PSA should be on the hook, for if they wouldn't have graded that first one, I'd certainly not have purchased any of the others.

Last edited by a761506; 10-29-2020 at 07:58 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:12 PM
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Default 72 stamps

Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #41  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:57 PM
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The counterfeiter didn’t do the whole set, I’m guessing he did fakes of authentic stickers that he had scans or photos of. I have never seen a counterfeit Tom Seaver and quite a few of the commons. He also messed up on several cards, from memory the fake Santo and Marichal in action have wrong numbers, the fake Alston is missing the team name, there was a common (Sudakis?) that was missing something (number?) on the counterfeit, and the authentic McLain has no team name but the counterfeit McLain has a team name, if I remember correctly. I do have to commend the counterfeiter for taking the time and effort to make fake commons when they wouldn’t be profitable, it would have looked fishy if he only made copies of Rose, Ryan, B. Robinson, Killebrew, Yastrzemski, Kaline, Carlton, Garvey, and Carew.
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Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 10-29-2020 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Missed a word
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  #42  
Old 10-29-2020, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
The counterfeiter didn’t do the whole set, I’m guessing he did fakes of authentic stickers that he had scans or photos of. I have never seen a counterfeit Tom Seaver and quite a few commons. He also messed up on several cards, from memory the fake Santo, Marichal, and Alston all have wrong numbers, there was a common (Sudakis?) that was missing something (number?) on the counterfeit, and the authentic McLain has no team name but the counterfeit McLain has a team name, if I remember correctly. I do have to commend the counterfeiter for taking the time and effort to make fake commons when they wouldn’t be profitable, it would have looked fishy if he only made copies of Rose, Ryan, Kaline, Carlton, and Carew.
Thanks for the info. What about the 1972 Puerto Rican League stickers - are you aware of any fakes in circulation?
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  #43  
Old 10-29-2020, 09:28 PM
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It would certainly be very profitable to make counterfeits of the 1972 Puero Rican Mike Schmidt but I am not aware of that ever being suspected or discussed.
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