NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Hockey / Basketball / Tennis Cards Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2020, 11:47 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default 1979 Gretzky's PSA 10

Looks like the OPC and Topps 1979 Gretzky PSA 10's will be coming up in the Heritage auction starting in mid November. Any guesses at the final prices.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:40 AM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 179
Default

still odd to me that the OPC 10 can look so crusty on the edges. i know that's how their stock looks but for over $1M purchase, that would irk me. still a sick card and i'd love to get even a 3 or a 4.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2020, 11:15 AM
irv's Avatar
irv irv is offline
D@le Irv*n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 4,594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
Looks like the OPC and Topps 1979 Gretzky PSA 10's will be coming up in the Heritage auction starting in mid November. Any guesses at the final prices.
Didn't the last 10 sell for $457,000+ U.S or something like that a couple years ago, or has one sold higher since then?
I am real curious what it sells for as well but if I had to guess, I'd say around the same or just slightly higher? I know Gretzky RC's have taken off like crazy lately but I'm not sure when it comes to a high grade like this one, if the same money will be spent or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyhockey View Post
still odd to me that the OPC 10 can look so crusty on the edges. i know that's how their stock looks but for over $1M purchase, that would irk me. still a sick card and i'd love to get even a 3 or a 4.
The famous OPC wire cut. Personally, being a CDN, I only purchase OPC cards if I can help it. There is just something nostalgic about them that I prefer, plus when you know that far fewer OPC copies were produced than Topps, it makes them all that more appealing as well, imo.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-25-2020, 01:06 PM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
The famous OPC wire cut. Personally, being a CDN, I only purchase OPC cards if I can help it. There is just something nostalgic about them that I prefer, plus when you know that far fewer OPC copies were produced than Topps, it makes them all that more appealing as well, imo.
i have a ton of both topps and OPC, but would prefer to have all OPC (value vs actual eye appeal). got a few early 1980s gretzky cards that actually look mint vs that wire cut look.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-25-2020, 05:14 PM
samosa4u's Avatar
samosa4u samosa4u is offline
Ran-jodh Dh.ill0n
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 921
Default

Gentlemen ... gentlemen ...

These 79' OPC cards were not cut with wires! They were cut using a slitter machine - and a very old one! Ten sheets were inserted at a time and the ones at the bottom got the roughest edges.
__________________
Successful transactions on Net54: Peter_Spaeth, rustywilly, esehombre, scooter729, NiceDocter, Mishu2nite, wolf441, jdeptula, mckinneyj and more!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-25-2020, 05:33 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

I'd be suspicious of one WITHOUT a rough cut.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:57 PM
Nick2mike Nick2mike is offline
Nick Kidder
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Gentlemen ... gentlemen ...

These 79' OPC cards were not cut with wires! They were cut using a slitter machine - and a very old one! Ten sheets were inserted at a time and the ones at the bottom got the roughest edges.
Interesting. Always heard wires and when they were dull you got rough cut.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:00 PM
irv's Avatar
irv irv is offline
D@le Irv*n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 4,594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Gentlemen ... gentlemen ...

These 79' OPC cards were not cut with wires! They were cut using a slitter machine - and a very old one! Ten sheets were inserted at a time and the ones at the bottom got the roughest edges.
Not saying what you said above is incorrect but I have never heard of that before either.
Was always told wire, and possibly an aircraft type quality wire.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:22 PM
samosa4u's Avatar
samosa4u samosa4u is offline
Ran-jodh Dh.ill0n
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 921
Default

I have pictures of the employees putting sheets through the slitter machine. I have lots of other pictures of the O-Pee-Chee plant as well. I can tell you right now that there were no aircraft wires in there.

And no, I cannot post these pictures on a public forum. They were sent to me by a Canadian researcher and he wouldn't be pleased if I did this.
__________________
Successful transactions on Net54: Peter_Spaeth, rustywilly, esehombre, scooter729, NiceDocter, Mishu2nite, wolf441, jdeptula, mckinneyj and more!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:39 PM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
I have pictures of the employees putting sheets through the slitter machine. I have lots of other pictures of the O-Pee-Chee plant as well. I can tell you right now that there were no aircraft wires in there.

And no, I cannot post these pictures on a public forum. They were sent to me by a Canadian researcher and he wouldn't be pleased if I did this.
that's some awesome intel. thanks for sharing.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-27-2020, 09:00 AM
EJKaufman EJKaufman is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
Looks like the OPC and Topps 1979 Gretzky PSA 10's will be coming up in the Heritage auction starting in mid November. Any guesses at the final prices.

The OPC last sold in 2016 for $465K. The Topps last sold a few months later in 2016 for $201K. Both are pop 2 in PSA 10 grade. Think about how much the card market has grown since then. I think the OPC sells for $1-2M minimum. It could go for $2M plus with buyer premium. I think the Topps goes for 40-50% of the cost of the OPC card. In 2016 the Topps sold for 43% of the OPC. I am looking to acquire an OPC in a PSA 9 grade as there are 89 of them and I think they will jump after the PSA 10 sale because they are the highest grade that are somewhat attainable.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-27-2020, 09:09 AM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is online now
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,063
Default

The OPC 10 was on eBay for months and months at 1 Mil and no sale.

It will be interesting to see if the different venue brings out bigger money.

Looking forward to following these two.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-27-2020, 12:56 PM
cardsagain74 cardsagain74 is online now
J0hn H@rper
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
The OPC 10 was on eBay for months and months at 1 Mil and no sale.

It will be interesting to see if the different venue brings out bigger money.

Looking forward to following these two.
I can't imagine that it won't bring out the big bucks. Would imagine that those with the means are much more likely to hand Heritage 2 mill than any ebay seller, even probstein or pwcc.

Agree with EJKaufman, maybe around 2 million for the OPC and somewhere in the 750 k to 1 million range for the Topps
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-27-2020, 03:28 PM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is online now
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,063
Default

https://youtu.be/66yNvHeePq4

This is the guy who had them listed and who must have consigned them.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-28-2020, 09:50 AM
samosa4u's Avatar
samosa4u samosa4u is offline
Ran-jodh Dh.ill0n
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
https://youtu.be/66yNvHeePq4

This is the guy who had them listed and who must have consigned them.
I have seen this video before, but I totally forgot about his Gretzky! Well done, Peck!

I don't agree with this guy. He stated that the GOAT in football can always be debated. For example, some say it's Brady, others say it is Barry Sanders, others say Elway, etc. But in hockey, according to him, there is no debate. Now first of all, how can anyone compare a QB to a WR or a RB? It just wouldn't make sense to say that Jim Brown will always be better than Tom Brady. I think the same thing can be said about hockey. Yes, Gretzky is the greatest forward of all-time. However, the greatest d-man will always be Bobby Orr. And the greatest goalie? Now that would make an interesting debate!
__________________
Successful transactions on Net54: Peter_Spaeth, rustywilly, esehombre, scooter729, NiceDocter, Mishu2nite, wolf441, jdeptula, mckinneyj and more!

Last edited by samosa4u; 10-28-2020 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Spelling
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-28-2020, 03:21 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
I have seen this video before, but I totally forgot about his Gretzky! Well done, Peck!

I don't agree with this guy. He stated that the GOAT in football can always be debated. For example, some say it's Brady, others say it is Barry Sanders, others say Elway, etc. But in hockey, according to him, there is no debate. Now first of all, how can anyone compare a QB to a WR or a RB? It just wouldn't make sense to say that Jim Brown will always be better than Tom Brady. I think the same thing can be said about hockey. Yes, Gretzky is the greatest forward of all-time. However, the greatest d-man will always be Bobby Orr. And the greatest goalie? Now that would make an interesting debate!
Look at it this way in terms of GOAT in Hockey. Gretzky played on the most stacked team ever and scored and passed all day winning scoring titles but was non existent on defense. Orr was defenseman of the year 8 straight years AND won scoring titles AND MVP's as the best scorer of his era. He was defenseman of the year and was at the top of the scoring leaders every year also. The first 100 assist season was accomplished by Orr, a defenseman. Orr is the ONLY player in the sports history to do this. Not even an argument for me as who is the GOAT. He is undoubtedly the #1 5 tool player the sport has ever seen.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-28-2020, 03:57 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default goalies

Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-28-2020, 04:00 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time
I would have no problem with Hasek at #1.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-28-2020, 04:01 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
Look at it this way in terms of GOAT in Hockey. Gretzky played on the most stacked team ever and scored and passed all day winning scoring titles but was non existent on defense. Orr was defenseman of the year 8 straight years AND won scoring titles AND MVP's as the best scorer of his era. He was defenseman of the year and was at the top of the scoring leaders every year also. The first 100 assist season was accomplished by Orr, a defenseman. Orr is the ONLY player in the sports history to do this. Not even an argument for me as who is the GOAT. He is undoubtedly the #1 5 tool player the sport has ever seen.
This is essentially the argument you will get from most Bostonians. I'm not sure that many people anywhere else buy it though.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-28-2020, 04:04 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
This is essentially the argument you will get from most Bostonians. I'm not sure that many people anywhere else buy it though.
Just a common sense argument for me. Played at the highest level on offense AND defense. Pretty much a no brainier for me.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-28-2020, 09:35 PM
irv's Avatar
irv irv is offline
D@le Irv*n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 4,594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
Look at it this way in terms of GOAT in Hockey. Gretzky played on the most stacked team ever and scored and passed all day winning scoring titles but was non existent on defense. Orr was defenseman of the year 8 straight years AND won scoring titles AND MVP's as the best scorer of his era. He was defenseman of the year and was at the top of the scoring leaders every year also. The first 100 assist season was accomplished by Orr, a defenseman. Orr is the ONLY player in the sports history to do this. Not even an argument for me as who is the GOAT. He is undoubtedly the #1 5 tool player the sport has ever seen.
I agree, and considering how short Orr's career was due to injuries from not being protected like Gretzky was, one can only imagine the feats he would have accomplished if he was.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bobby Orr 70 OPC 2.jpg (75.4 KB, 269 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-28-2020, 09:38 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
I agree, and considering how short Orr's career was due to injuries from not being protected like Gretzky was, one can only imagine the feats he would have accomplished if he was.
The crazy thing is that Orr in only 9 seasons had a higher career +/- than Gretzky in a 20 year career.
Needless to say, both are 2 of the best and they are incredible on and off the ice.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-29-2020, 11:13 AM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
Br.ent So.bie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time
I would say that is definitely not the general consensus among the hockey cognoscenti. Comparing goaltenders of past generations is difficult, and considering Hasek played in an era dominated by two better netminders in both Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, I don't think the appellation of greatest of all time could possibly be bestowed when he wasn't even the best of his generation.

ONE of the greatest all-time, of course, the absolute best though? I don't think so...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-29-2020, 01:36 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

[quote=Huysmans;2030198]I would say that is definitely not the general consensus among the hockey cognoscenti. Comparing goaltenders of past generations is difficult, and considering Hasek played in an era dominated by two better netminders in both Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, I don't think the appellation of greatest of all time could possibly be bestowed when he wasn't even the best of his generation.

Hasek beats both in career save %, GAA and total Vezinas (6 to Brodeurs 4 and Roy's 3 ). All this while a rookie at 26 yrs. old. Pretty solid case. Even won a couple of Hart's.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-29-2020, 01:52 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

I would bet Hasek is on top of more lists than any other goalie, which is all I said.

Here's another.
https://www.thetoptens.com/best-ice-hockey-goalies/
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-29-2020, 01:58 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
Br.ent So.bie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 861
Default

[quote=Tomi;2030250]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huysmans View Post
I would say that is definitely not the general consensus among the hockey cognoscenti. Comparing goaltenders of past generations is difficult, and considering Hasek played in an era dominated by two better netminders in both Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, I don't think the appellation of greatest of all time could possibly be bestowed when he wasn't even the best of his generation.

Hasek beats both in career save %, GAA and total Vezinas (6 to Brodeurs 4 and Roy's 3 ). All this while a rookie at 26 yrs. old. Pretty solid case. Even won a couple of Hart's.
Both Roy and Brodeur had longer careers and were more consistent. And each were more successful during the playoffs when it matters most. And you mention GAA and save %, with the difference between the trio miniscule.

Brodeur is the only goaltender in history with eight 40-win seasons, while Roy is the only goaltender to win a trio of Conn Smythe trophies - arguably the most prestigious award in the entire sport.

Additionally, Roy was selected as the greatest goaltender in NHL history by a panel of 41 writers, coupled with a simultaneous fan poll in 2004, while Brodeur is the NHL's all-time regular season leader in wins and shutouts.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-29-2020, 02:01 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
Br.ent So.bie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I would bet Hasek is on top of more lists than any other goalie, which is all I said.

Here's another.
https://www.thetoptens.com/best-ice-hockey-goalies/
Yeah, but all lists are not created equal....
some are more important, from more reputable sources....

https://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=1923345
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-29-2020, 02:10 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

Hasek had the best nickname.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-29-2020, 02:50 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
Br.ent So.bie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Hasek had the best nickname.
You could be right there.

Although...

Clint "Praying Benny" Benedict
Georges "The Chicoutimi Cucumber" Vezina
and
Jacques "Jake the Snake" Plante

are quite memorable as well.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-29-2020, 03:56 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huysmans View Post
You could be right there.

Although...

Clint "Praying Benny" Benedict
Georges "The Chicoutimi Cucumber" Vezina
and
Jacques "Jake the Snake" Plante

are quite memorable as well.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-29-2020, 04:04 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

Simple, and obvious. But still...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg richard,m55.jpg (78.5 KB, 261 views)
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-30-2020, 06:38 PM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
This is essentially the argument you will get from most Bostonians. I'm not sure that many people anywhere else buy it though.
I am not from Boston and I agree with Orr as the GOAT. Could the GOAT in baseball be a DH? I would rather have a complete player over a one dimensional one.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-30-2020, 09:58 PM
shagrotn77's Avatar
shagrotn77 shagrotn77 is offline
Andrew Mc.Gann
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 316
Default

Gretzky is the GOAT in any team sport and it's not even close. I'm so tired of the Bobby Orr guys trying to push their greatest of all time agenda. Yes, he was spectacular...for 6 years. Gretzky checks every damn box when it comes to greatness. Regular season records. Career records. Championships. Making his teammates better. People like to say he wasn't great on defense. Guess what - he wasn't paid to play defense!!!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-30-2020, 11:29 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shagrotn77 View Post
Gretzky is the GOAT in any team sport and it's not even close. I'm so tired of the Bobby Orr guys trying to push their greatest of all time agenda. Yes, he was spectacular...for 6 years. Gretzky checks every damn box when it comes to greatness. Regular season records. Career records. Championships. Making his teammates better. People like to say he wasn't great on defense. Guess what - he wasn't paid to play defense!!!
9 years not 6. The GOAT is a 5 tool player, something Gretzky never was. His numbers were nothing in LA compared to what he did in Edmonton where everyone on his line was an all star. At least Gretzky was able to win many Lady Bing trophies as the nicest player.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-31-2020, 06:07 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
Kevin from Franklin Square, LI
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Long Island
Posts: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Here's one list anyhow. I am guessing Hasek tops more lists than anyone else.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-of-all-time
Tony Esposito over Billy Smith? Curious list, indeed...
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-31-2020, 06:12 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
Kevin from Franklin Square, LI
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Long Island
Posts: 90
Default

For what it's worth,Lemieux could do everything Gretzky could. An added bonus was he was bigger. Also extra points for playing in the more physical Patrick Division vs the Smythe Division.

Who's ready to discuss 80s hockey? Let's go, boys...
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-31-2020, 07:17 AM
Wid_Conroy Wid_Conroy is online now
Wid
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
For what it's worth,Lemieux could do everything Gretzky could. An added bonus was he was bigger. Also extra points for playing in the more physical Patrick Division vs the Smythe Division.

Who's ready to discuss 80s hockey? Let's go, boys...
i keep seeing these GOAT arguments around competition for Gretzky. To me it's not even a discussion. Gretzky shattered the points and assists records by such a long-shot that his goal breaking records are an afterthought, and often overlooked. He has more career assists than any other player has total points! Think about that. On top of this, he is also the greatest goal scorer. What more are you looking for, lol.

I think the Hull/Lemieux arguments are crazy, but I always like to listen to what other people have to say.
Gretzky is the most dominant athlete in any sport.. Ever. I don't want to hear about golf, i am talking sports.
__________________
Bought From:
GrayGhost, Count76, mybuddyinc, banksfan14, boysblue, Sverteramo, rocuan, rootsearcher60, GoldenAge50s, pt7464, trdcrdkid, T206.org, bnorth

Collecting:
T206, 1933 Goudey, Ernie Banks base cards, Star Basketball..and, one by one I am adding HOF rookies from 50s-90s, MLB, NFL, NBA
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-31-2020, 07:22 AM
Wid_Conroy Wid_Conroy is online now
Wid
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
9 years not 6. The GOAT is a 5 tool player, something Gretzky never was. His numbers were nothing in LA compared to what he did in Edmonton where everyone on his line was an all star. At least Gretzky was able to win many Lady Bing trophies as the nicest player.
everyone on his line was an all-star. true. but another thing Gretzky is the all-time leader in is short-handed goals- and again its not close. So he was dominant with only 1/2 of those all-stars.
__________________
Bought From:
GrayGhost, Count76, mybuddyinc, banksfan14, boysblue, Sverteramo, rocuan, rootsearcher60, GoldenAge50s, pt7464, trdcrdkid, T206.org, bnorth

Collecting:
T206, 1933 Goudey, Ernie Banks base cards, Star Basketball..and, one by one I am adding HOF rookies from 50s-90s, MLB, NFL, NBA
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-31-2020, 02:18 PM
Tomi Tomi is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 61
Default

[quote=Wid_Conroy;2030711]i keep seeing these GOAT arguments around competition for Gretzky. To me it's not even a discussion. Gretzky shattered the points and assists records by such a long-shot that his goal breaking records are an afterthought, and often overlooked. He has more career assists than any other player has total points! Think about that. On top of this, he is also the greatest goal scorer. What more are you looking for, lol.



I guess we see a GOAT in different ways. You see the GOAT as someone who scored the most points. I see a GOAT as someone who does EVERYTHING. Orr is the only player in the history of the sport who was the best defenseman and offensive player of the year. What are you going to say if Ovechkin breaks his goal record? He has a legit shot.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-31-2020, 03:32 PM
irv's Avatar
irv irv is offline
D@le Irv*n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 4,594
Default

Don knows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8lNMMLZn-E
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-01-2020, 03:18 AM
shagrotn77's Avatar
shagrotn77 shagrotn77 is offline
Andrew Mc.Gann
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy View Post
i keep seeing these GOAT arguments around competition for Gretzky. To me it's not even a discussion. Gretzky shattered the points and assists records by such a long-shot that his goal breaking records are an afterthought, and often overlooked. He has more career assists than any other player has total points! Think about that. On top of this, he is also the greatest goal scorer. What more are you looking for, lol.

I think the Hull/Lemieux arguments are crazy, but I always like to listen to what other people have to say.
Gretzky is the most dominant athlete in any sport.. Ever. I don't want to hear about golf, i am talking sports.
Yes!!!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-01-2020, 03:24 AM
shagrotn77's Avatar
shagrotn77 shagrotn77 is offline
Andrew Mc.Gann
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
9 years not 6. The GOAT is a 5 tool player, something Gretzky never was. His numbers were nothing in LA compared to what he did in Edmonton where everyone on his line was an all star. At least Gretzky was able to win many Lady Bing trophies as the nicest player.
I said Orr was spectacular for 6 years. Do you really think he was amazing in 1966, 1967 and 1968 when he scored 41, 31 and 64 points? So that leaves 1969-1974. An other-worldly run for a defenseman, for sure, but 6 spectacular years is not nearly enough for a player to be considered the GOAT.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-01-2020, 04:42 AM
Wid_Conroy Wid_Conroy is online now
Wid
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 156
Default

[quote=Tomi;2030811]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy View Post
i keep seeing these GOAT arguments around competition for Gretzky. To me it's not even a discussion. Gretzky shattered the points and assists records by such a long-shot that his goal breaking records are an afterthought, and often overlooked. He has more career assists than any other player has total points! Think about that. On top of this, he is also the greatest goal scorer. What more are you looking for, lol.



I guess we see a GOAT in different ways. You see the GOAT as someone who scored the most points. I see a GOAT as someone who does EVERYTHING. Orr is the only player in the history of the sport who was the best defenseman and offensive player of the year. What are you going to say if Ovechkin breaks his goal record? He has a legit shot.
Not at all. it's not that Gretzky was the best scorer, it is that he completely shattered what was normal in the game, completely dominated. When you get 2.5 points a game, which was freakish, frankly you don't really need elite defense. creating that many goals puts your team in a position to win 99% of the time. Please don't get it twisted, this is very different than a James Harden type in the current NBA. Harden might score the most, but he is no where near an outlier in what he does.

wrt to Ovechkin, back to my original point.... Gretzky produced so many total points, that his goal-scoring is actually overlooked. it was an afterthought. It's almost if he effortlessly became the greatest goal scorer this game as ever seen. If he ends up 2nd all time in goals, It won't make a difference.
__________________
Bought From:
GrayGhost, Count76, mybuddyinc, banksfan14, boysblue, Sverteramo, rocuan, rootsearcher60, GoldenAge50s, pt7464, trdcrdkid, T206.org, bnorth

Collecting:
T206, 1933 Goudey, Ernie Banks base cards, Star Basketball..and, one by one I am adding HOF rookies from 50s-90s, MLB, NFL, NBA
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-17-2020, 06:01 PM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is online now
Anson
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 663
Default

The GOAT designation is overused and pretty ridiculous when considering changes to professional sports over the decades. Orr was a monster and the very best of his generation. But how would you honestly compare him to an Erik Karlsson or Nicklas Lidstrom? What about Gretzky or Crosby? Richard or Jagr? Its nonsensical. Way too many variables. These decisions come down to emotion, bias, and our own experience with the game. GOTT makes a lot more sense to me. Records are records, but they don't tell the whole story.

Back on topic, both of those 10s are well off-center. The OPC especially has me scratching my head.
__________________
An$on Lyt!e

Last edited by Throttlesteer; 11-17-2020 at 06:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-17-2020, 07:25 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

It's only one opinion, but I heard an interview with Gordie Howe who was asked the inevitable question, if you could pick one player to start a team, would it be Orr or Gretzky? He said Orr.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-17-2020, 10:13 PM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is online now
Anson
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 663
Default

I wonder what Gordie would say today? Orr or McDavid? Its a very different game now. Orr was a generational talent that transformed the position.
__________________
An$on Lyt!e
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-18-2020, 12:34 AM
Wid_Conroy Wid_Conroy is online now
Wid
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's only one opinion, but I heard an interview with Gordie Howe who was asked the inevitable question, if you could pick one player to start a team, would it be Orr or Gretzky? He said Orr.

old timers are typically bitter, and biased against newer players. Just like in basketball, when Jordan arrived there were those types who would claim they would build a team around Wilt or Russell.
__________________
Bought From:
GrayGhost, Count76, mybuddyinc, banksfan14, boysblue, Sverteramo, rocuan, rootsearcher60, GoldenAge50s, pt7464, trdcrdkid, T206.org, bnorth

Collecting:
T206, 1933 Goudey, Ernie Banks base cards, Star Basketball..and, one by one I am adding HOF rookies from 50s-90s, MLB, NFL, NBA
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-18-2020, 06:51 AM
ClementeFanOh ClementeFanOh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 156
Default Hockey GOAT?

How about Killer Carlson for GOAT? I'll see myself out now
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-18-2020, 05:21 PM
irv's Avatar
irv irv is offline
D@le Irv*n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 4,594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's only one opinion, but I heard an interview with Gordie Howe who was asked the inevitable question, if you could pick one player to start a team, would it be Orr or Gretzky? He said Orr.
And some players, like Phil Esposito, say Gordie Howe was the best ever.

Valid point and a true contender for GOAT as well, imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu3tvR30n1g
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-18-2020, 05:35 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,487
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy View Post
old timers are typically bitter, and biased against newer players. Just like in basketball, when Jordan arrived there were those types who would claim they would build a team around Wilt or Russell.
I don't think that was the case at all with Howe, he had only the highest praise for Gretzky, but wanted to start his dream team with Orr on defense.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 11-18-2020 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1979-80 OPC Gretzky RC PSA 9 ichieh Hockey / Basketball / Tennis Cards Forum 10 06-18-2010 12:46 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:04 PM.


ebay GSB