O/T series info on Susini Cuban cards?

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Posted By: Dave F

I posted originally on the Non-sports forum and unfortunately haven't seen much of anything pop up there yet so figured I'd use my one O/T here and see if anyone would have any info on this set.


Curious if anyone knows much about the Susini Cuban cards from around 1915-1916? I have found very little info on it to this point. How many cards are on the set? How rare are they? Does anyone know of complete sets in existance? I know a bit about the few baseball examples in the set...but curious what the values are on the other cards in the set, such as the military cards, presidential, actresses, transportation, etc. What would values be in poor to good condition? Any help would be appreciated!

Here is what is printed on the backs-

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I don't know much about them except that there are three baseball related cards. Cards are number 202, 203 and 204. FKW may chime in as he has some knowledge of these cards.

From my collection:

Top: Murray batting
Middle: Speaker at bat
Bottom: Sliding

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Posted By: Dave F

Thanks Steve. Yup, those were relatively easy to find info on. The other cards in the set, not so much. I've come into a few so trying to figure out what I'm getting exactly, info on them including scarcity and value.

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Posted By: Shawn

Dave,

Apparently this set is quite rare... As I have been trying to find you some info and that is a task in itself. This set does include a Jack Johnson boxing card and one other boxing, 4 wrestling, tennis, golf, dirigible(zepplin), etc. Would love to see what you have.

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Posted By: Shawn

Steve,

Can you post back scans of those baseball cards you posted?

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Representative back. 202, 203 and 204 all have the same back.

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Posted By: Dave F

Funny thing is the backs may not even matter so much for me. They are in an album and without having it in hand yet who knows if they are removeable. Maybe worth more anyway as is...I don't know. Here is an example of the fronts anyway.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Second photo, upper top left card. What sport does it represent?

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Posted By: Dave F

Steve-

No idea yet. From the photo it looks to me it could be golf, but total guess.

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Posted By: Dave F

Shawn-

Second photo top right, is that the Jack Johnson card?

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Posted By: Shawn

That is the Jack Johnson! Nice rare card... Nice pick-up

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Posted By: Jeff Mohler

I don't know if there is any jai alai cards, but the game was pretty popular back then. If there are any mystery sports cards, that may be the game that is being depicted.

The aguilitas sets from the mid '20's have jai alai player cards.

Jeff

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Posted By: John S

Hey Dave,

Check this out...I didn't read all of the responses but there might be some more useful info. I have the football one and have never seen anything published regarding value.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1218723751/Questions+regarding+the+N230+Susini+issue

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Did a little ebay search "susini" and here are a number of these cards listed in the ebay stores. Not many sports but many of the others. Prices for the non-sports were around $3. There are some odd ball sports such sa lawnhockey and I think that one was about $40.

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Posted By: Dave F

Thanks for the info so far guys. Looks like there is all kinds of different things in this set. Here are a couple more different subjects.

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Posted By: Dave F

Interesting in the last pic Steve in the "modes or methods" of transportation whichever it is how there are some color toned cards like your baseball subjects. I wonder why there is the difference.

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Posted By: Shawn

I found these... Relating to the wrestling cards. It states that this is a 1300 card set. I copied the verbiage and attached a link below. You can click on two of the cards and see the image.
As to the ones on Ebay, most appear to be (not all) of a later date "1920s", I think yours or perhaps the 1915 series has the white caption on the bottom.

http://x-titles.com/wc/years/1910-1919/index.html




1915 - (N230) Henry Clay and Bock & Co., Susini Album Universal (Cuba) - #219 (wrestling scene) (image)
1915 - (N230) Henry Clay and Bock & Co., Susini Album Universal (Cuba) - #220 (wrestling scene) (image)
1915 - (N230) Henry Clay and Bock & Co., Susini Album Universal (Cuba) - #221 (wrestling scene)
1915 - (N230) Henry Clay and Bock & Co., Susini Album Universal (Cuba) - #223 Luchardores Japoneses (wrestling scene)
Note: Tobacco premium. Album cards from 1300-card set. Distributed in packs of Susini and Ovalades cigarettes.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Dave, I'm told that they do come in colorized and black and white as evidenced in the pickup. Appears as though the sports are all colorized. They are nice!

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Posted By: Dave F

Shawn-

Good info thanks. Wondering if there is a price difference in the two sets? I would assume then the 1915? set is a little more scarce?

1300 cards in the set...whew.

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Posted By: JW

Hello. I primarily collect golf cards and here is my lone golf example from the set. I am not for sure of the year, but a golf book listed it as a 1927 - Clay and Bock – Album Universal.
Thanks,
Jason

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Posted By: Dave F

Jason-

Do you have a scan of the back? Cool card.

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Posted By: Dave F

Jason-

Funny, after looking I actually have that golf card. I'd still be interested to see what is on the back of yours..could be from two different sets if the back is different as you said you think yours is 1927 and not 1915.

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Posted By: JW

I don't have a scan, but my back matches Steve's SPORT back from above. My card is also number 210 in the set, if I remember correctly. I looked at the golf book again last night and the year is actually '1927?' in the book. So I don't think they were even sure of the year.
Jason

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I'm no fashion maven but the golfer's garb looks more to the 20's than the teens.

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Posted By: Dave F

Jason-

I believe then that the card is somewhere between 1910-1919, 1915 keeps coming up alot. I know my buddy Shawn was tracking down info on the net as he is alot better than me at doing that and hopefully he'll chime in with a closer date. From what I've seen there was this set and then one other set produced in the early 1920's also from the Henry Clay & Bock Co but I believe that set has Henry Clay printed on the back.

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Posted By: Dave F

I spent this afternoon running through the pages in this album. Just an amazing collection of every sort of subject you can think of. Tris Speaker to Jack Johnson to George Washington to Darwin to Steamboats to The Wright Bros Airplane to a pile of human skulls and on and on. Once I get things somewhat organized I will update with a few pics. Curious with all the different events and things in the set if it can be for sure narrowed down on a 1915 date or not.

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Posted By: Dave F

A few pics. There are actually 940 in this album so it would take forever to scan each one. The baseball varieties are in the first scan. Still would love it if someone could tell from the boats or planes perhaps what year this could be for sure.

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Posted By: Shawn

Wow, Dave...

940 cards! I see you have the three baseball ones. I wonder if in the book in the front or back or perhaps the text next to the page with the cards if there is a date? I have tried to figure out who the golf guy is but cannot even get a bite. Does the album describe each card on the page across from it?

Also if you post the new photos you have over on the non-sports forum, maybe someone will "finally" reply. I am not sure what is wrong with that bunch over there, but maybe they simply have not heard of this set?

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Posted By: Anonymous

There is a checklist for the celebrity section only. None of the other sections of the album have any reference at all to a checklist or identification. An example of the celebrity checklist is below.

Also something strange was the second picture below. It was loose inside the album. I'm assuming its some sort of poem. It has the same type border around the paper as what is in the album. The "poem" has a date on the bottom of 1918. Not sure if this would perhaps be the exact time of the series or maybe a poem produced a couple years later...just weird it has the same border.

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Posted By: Shawn

Dave,

The more I look into this set, the more i believe it is from around 1910-1915... Here is a back photo of one from a later issue of which you can find on ebay. The actress and movie series "1920s" of which actually states Henry Clay & Bock. I think the Henry Co. bought the Susini Co. around 1915 and produced the album for the cards you have. Later fading them out and introducing there own cards??? It is very difficult to find anything on the cards you have! I can find plenty on the later 1920s Movie star cards of which your album does not even have a section for.

One question, What is the last card number in your album? 1300??

Thanks

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Posted By: boxingcardman

He was heavyweight champion of the British Empire and a white hope of the Jack Johnson era.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Dave F

Thanks for the info Adam, I was not aware he was a heavyweight champ.


Shawn I don't have the album in front of me and can't recall now if it was exactly 1300 or a bit more or less in the album.

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Posted By: Dave F

Last off-topic post about this, but did want to thank those that have emailed me about this set and have helped in guiding the way towards an appropriate way to sell the cards. They will be in the November Philip Weiss auction (that auction will also feature a T206 Wagner SGC 40 which should be interesting). Obviously with this being predominately nonsport it was highly recommended that Phil's auction would be the best route, so we shall see.

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Posted By: Shawn

If Phillip Weiss has these cards, does this mean we will be seeing them on the "Antiques Roadshow"? Ha!