Heritage Auctions: Ambush Marketing?

Archive · #1 04-15-2009, 09:40 AM

Posted By: T206Collector

Anyone else think this is a bit "bush league"? I'm sure eBay would be thrilled to know its auction site was being used to promote another auction....

http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-E93-Standard-Caramel-Honus-Wagner-Auction-Catalog_W0QQitemZ270374505060QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item270374505060&_trksid=p32 86.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A 1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

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Archive · #2 04-15-2009, 09:49 AM

Posted By: Dave F

I saw that...saw the "Just So" card and had to scratch my head. I'll say this...it's not something I think Rob Lifson would resort to.

Archive · #3 04-15-2009, 10:02 AM

Posted By: peter ullman

that's pretty lame. i'd understand placing the card on ebay...as a live auction ending when the heritage auction ends...this is routinely done...but selling catalogs on ebay is lame!

Archive · #4 04-15-2009, 10:02 AM

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-Topps-Pete-Rose-537-SGC-96-Mint-9-Auction-Catalog_W0QQitemZ270374505798QQihZ017QQcategoryZ11 8257QQcmdZViewItem

$102 for a catalog?

The buyer is in for a big surprise

Archive · #5 04-15-2009, 10:11 AM

Posted By: Red

If I was a consignor I'd be happy to see that the auction was being promoted many different ways. The listings on Ebay will get thousands of hits and could draw in new people who don't know about the upcoming auction.

Archive · #6 04-15-2009, 10:17 AM

Posted By: Jim VB

They currently have 101 of these auctions up.

Obviously, some bidders are stupid and will be fooled by this, (witness the 1963 Rose rookie catalog at over $100). I bet they leave these up for a while then cancel all the auctions before completion.

Seems pretty slimy to me.

Archive · #7 04-15-2009, 10:27 AM

Posted By: dstudeba

They are listed in the Auction Catalogs category.

Archive · #8 04-15-2009, 10:36 AM

Posted By: D. Bergin

It says "Auction Catalog" right in the title. It's pretty simple marketing. I'm pretty confused about what the issue is here.

Archive · #9 04-15-2009, 10:41 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray

Seems to me that if there is an "Auction Catalog" category that ebay wouldn't have a problem.

I think they would have been better to list them with BIN's to eliminate the apparent confusion with the Rose listing.

Other than that I have no problem with it.

Archive · #10 04-15-2009, 10:41 AM

Posted By: Dave F

Dave-

If you want to sell a catalog fine, although that in itself is a bit strange to me for an auction company to stick their own catalogs on ebay. The bigger issue is using scans from the auction, ie. the "Just So" tobacco card to advertise the card. Why not just put a scan up of the auction catalog cover instead of "card isn't for sale on ebay, but is for sale in this auction" or whatever the wording is?

I just think it's a little backyard, and not something you'd want a "top tier" auction house doing.

Archive · #11 04-15-2009, 10:43 AM

Posted By: Dave F

Steve-

You really don't have a problem with this? Even though the entire description is on the card and not the catalog?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1893-Just-So-Tobacco-Nig-Cuppy-SGC-30-G-Auction-Catalog_W0QQitemZ270374504928

Archive · #12 04-15-2009, 10:48 AM

Posted By: Jim VB

Technically, there's nothing wrong with it. But there is the perception that they are attempting to mislead here. If they wanted to sell the catalogs... fine.

But they have used 101 very different listings to show what is exactly the same catalog. Two of those listings have multiple bids. Why do you think it's OK to take money from bidders who are obviously too stupid to realize what they are bidding on?

I question the intent and the ethics of this marketing ploy.

Archive · #13 04-15-2009, 10:53 AM

Posted By: Dave F

To me Jim seems like more than just a perception to mislead. Then they have starting bids of $24.99 on all of them...besides the fact they aren't even advertising for the actual catalogs, who would pay $24.99 for one to begin with? I wouldn't pay that for my REA catalog....

Archive · #14 04-15-2009, 11:02 AM

Posted By: Jim VB

I was trying to be polite. I've purchased from Heritage a number of times and have always liked them, but as I said in my first post, this is slimy.

I bet these auctions do not run their full course.

Archive · #15 04-15-2009, 11:10 AM

Posted By: Dave F

I understand Jim. I've bought from them too. Just not what an upper echelon auction house would do in my opinion.

Archive · #16 04-15-2009, 11:17 AM

Posted By: Bob

I agree with you, Jim. I have dealt with Heritage several times, all good transactions but this is kind of goofy IMHO. I bet the guy who pays over $100 for the catalogue and expects the 63 Rose rookie is going to be P.O.ed. Yes, I know he should read more carefully, but I imagine that there might be some issues with "buyers" that Heritage wasn't expecting.

Archive · #17 04-15-2009, 11:22 AM

Posted By: Jim VB

This has all the makings of a campaign started by someone pretty low level in marketing. Honestly, it sounds like something one of my teenagers would think up. (Hey! I know how to get some "almost free" exposure for our auction!)

Archive · #18 04-15-2009, 11:28 AM

Posted By: Rob D.

I guess we're done complaining about the new board?

Archive · #19 04-15-2009, 11:30 AM

Posted By: Jim VB

We go where we're told to complain.

Archive · #20 04-15-2009, 11:31 AM

Posted By: Dave F

Rob-

Yes, if you dont mind...please just complain here for now.

Archive · #21 04-15-2009, 11:36 AM

Posted By: JB

Yes....... very Bush league! That has got to violate some ebay policy (lord knows they have plenty).

Archive · #22 04-15-2009, 11:36 AM

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I hope Heritage will not accept the $100 from the bidder.

Archive · #23 04-15-2009, 12:08 PM

Posted By: Alan

Are their catalogs not free ???

Archive · #24 04-15-2009, 12:09 PM

Posted By: quan

heritage will tell the dude not to send payment and send him a free catalog. the only problem is you might get some upset bidders thinking they got a bargain and leave a neg. other than that, if i was a consignor i'd be real happy my lots are getting extra exposure...don't see what the big deal is.

Archive · #25 04-15-2009, 12:44 PM

Posted By: Jimmy

I really try not to push it with my listings, so most of my website info is on the the about me page and a link. I have a few others things that I have tried, but this example seems overboard. I have found ways around the eBay crazy policies, but if eBay is specific on some rules they will delete the listing. The Heritage listing is borderline, I wish I could do more - advertise more of what I have outside of eBay too, but I started this hobby with eBay and respect there wishes.

Jimmy

Archive · #26 04-15-2009, 12:48 PM

Posted By: packs

Why do you guys let yourselves get upset about this? Especially with all the eBay complaints.

Archive · #27 04-15-2009, 01:31 PM

Posted By: Jim VB

I don't think anyone is really "upset." I do think it's surprising when a major auction house is this blatant about a questionable business practice.

Archive · #28 04-15-2009, 02:02 PM

Posted By: Mark

It doesn't surprise me - it's a somewhat different subject, but see thread from a few days back

http://tiny.cc/Op9MU

Archive · #29 04-15-2009, 02:10 PM

Posted By: leon

I know you have a "thing" about ears.... but in fairness to them the Jackson look alike is not a slam dunk for it NOT being him, in my somewhat novice opinion. When I asked them about the photo they gave some compelling evidence to support their claim. It might not be him but I am not 100% sure....I am not even 70% sure it's not him...And yes, I have heard, and read, all sides of the argument.

As for this marketing of their auction, if I am not mistaking they have done this ebay listing type advertising many times before. If I were a consignor I would be happy. I also don't think they will take someone's $100 for a catalog, when it's an obvious mistake the bidder is making. Yes, they have a banner on this site but I am being as unbiased as I can in my response here.....best regards

Archive · #30 04-15-2009, 02:14 PM

Posted By: Rob D.

Well, I don't know about advertising, but you know those Somali pirates? I heard they fly a Heritage Auctions flag on their boats.

Archive · #31 04-15-2009, 02:16 PM

Posted By: Mark

They have no truly compelling evidence it's Jackson - if so let them present it. Actually all they need do is find one confirmed photo of Jackson with "small ears" like the guy in the photo they are presenting - from any angle, distance - whatever they want.

They won't because they can't - non exist.

As to me having a "thing" about ears - I'm in good company. You can include the CIA, FBI, the Illinois State police...etc.

A bit of education is a good thing - a good place to start is:
"Photo Fakery", by D. A. Brigioni, founder of the CIA's Photo Interpretation Center,Brassey Publications, 1999.

BTW - I still like you Leon.

Archive · #32 04-15-2009, 02:29 PM

Posted By: Rhys

I had all my ebay auctions ended last week because I listed my website name www.prewarsports.com within the text of my listing and appearantly that is so bad they will shut you down. How is it that what I did was so far against the rules they resort to that but others can basically use ebay as free advertising for their sites? I love ebay, and I hate ebay both at the same time.

Archive · #33 04-15-2009, 02:33 PM

Posted By: Dave F

Rhys

I don't believe these listings will run their full terms.

Archive · #34 04-15-2009, 02:49 PM

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

According to this site, he played in Westwood, NJ in 1922.

http://www.blackbetsy.com/joepics4.htm

Archive · #35 04-15-2009, 02:51 PM

Posted By: Jim VB

Mr. Van Brunt,

Thank you for your email. While I appreciate your opinion, I respectfully disagree. Heritage has become the worlds largest collectibles auctioneer because we actively seek out every available bidder to ensure that our consignors realize the highest possible prices for their lots. We used to list our entire auctions on eBay when they offered a Live bidding format. Unfortunately, eBay Live has closed and this is no longer an option. The increased visibility of these current offerings on eBay will ultimately result in larger settlement checks for our consignors.

Of course, I do want to make it clear that we will not require any eBay bidder that may miss the very prominent text stating that the auction is for an auction catalog only to follow through with payment. I hope this clarifies our position on the matter, and I thank you for your interest.

Regards,

Chris Ivy

Archive · #36 04-15-2009, 03:01 PM

Posted By: JimB

Seems reasonable to me. I don't understand what the big deal is. If I was a consignor, I would be very happy about it. No harm, no foul IMHO.
JimB

Archive · #37 04-15-2009, 03:03 PM

Posted By: John H.

It's a bizarre listing and quite deceptive for anyone who doesn't pay close attention to the item description. I agree that, if anything, it should definitely be a "Buy It Now" rather than an open bid. I hope that, to be ethical, they cancel any listings that go over the minimum bid.

Edit: I sent them a message. The Pete Rose rookie card catalog is at $107 and rising.

Archive · #38 04-15-2009, 03:41 PM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Heritage wants it both ways: they don't want to make a sale to anyone who misreads the auction description and thinks he's buying a card - yet they want to mislead people in an effort to get them to these listings for the auction catalogs. As stated before, why not just use a BIN price? Perhaps because an open-ended auction would cause certain bidders to believe they are buying the card and not the catalog?

Archive · #39 04-15-2009, 03:51 PM

Posted By: Chris Bland

No publicity is bad publicity - Heritage is getting just what they want out of these "auctions" - people looking at them and talking about them...

Archive · #40 04-15-2009, 03:58 PM

Posted By: Robert Klevens

They are basically advertising their current auction on Ebay which I can't believe is allowed.
I doubt these auctions will continue much longer.

Archive · #41 04-15-2009, 04:18 PM

Posted By: George HC

"Heritage has become the worlds largest collectibles auctioneer"

LMAO

Archive · #42 04-15-2009, 04:21 PM

Posted By: leon

What other collectibles auction company has done over $700 million in the last year? They are the #1 coin auction house in the world, I believe....

Archive · #43 04-15-2009, 04:27 PM

Posted By: Dave F

With all due respect Leon-

Cant' we leave it at the cards? I personally don't care what auction house has done millions of dollars in coins, barbie dolls, or bottle tops. They are hardly the top "sportscard" auctioneer in the country.

Archive · #44 04-15-2009, 04:28 PM

Posted By: Jim VB

"No publicity is bad publicity. "

Chris,

I know this is an old adage, but it is decidely, not true for any business that relies on the public for their survival. It may work fine for a "celebrities" like Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, but it's not for everyone.

Archive · #45 04-15-2009, 04:38 PM

Posted By: Jimmy

Chris,

you do make a good point about the eBay live auctions not being available anymore and we our not saying it was wrong what you are doing. maybe just more surprised that you have been able to do this with eBay and all the restrictions. I have tried many types of scenarios and ideas - some have work and others have not. There just needs to be a little bit more level playing field with these kinds of issues on eBay.

Good Luck

Jimmy

Archive · #46 04-15-2009, 04:42 PM

Posted By: leon

I was only pointing out the statement that Heritage made was in fact true. "LMAO" at a true statement is sort of paradoxical....(is that a word?)....regards

edited spelling...thanks Barry

Archive · #47 04-15-2009, 04:47 PM

Posted By: barrysloate

Edited as my work is done.

Archive · #48 04-15-2009, 04:51 PM

Posted By: Rob D.

The new/old board had spell-check ...

Archive · #49 04-15-2009, 05:12 PM

Posted By: Claude

(Spell check) back in the time it was called a teacher but they don't do that anymore, do they?

Archive · #50 04-15-2009, 05:21 PM

Posted By: Jim VB

Someone forwarded this link to me.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-catalog.html

Seems pretty clear that the Heritage listings are in violation of Ebay policy.

But my point was more than that. Every auction house should go far out of their way to avoid anything that even comes close to the appearance of impropriety.