A New Net54 BST, Live Auction Rule Change?

[Leon]

For those of us that participate in the little auctions in our BST sections, I want to throw something out there.This question has come up before. On ebay, and for the most part, all auctions allow you to bid as a max bid but not enact it unless it's needed.

What about if we did that in those BST Live Auction sections?

For instance- There is an approximately $100 card over there. I really want it but don't want to do a max of x+xx?, over the value for fear of paying way too much.

So if the rule is changed to - The winning bidder gets the auction for $1.00 more than the underbider. How does that sound? In that example I could bid $350 and the underbidder goes to $134, I get it for $135 and am happy.


and a card with a cool backstamp...(not for auction )

[NiceDocter]

Unless a maximum ceiling bid is somehow “secret” , the odds of anyone winning a lot by less than their maximum are probably pretty low for obvious reasons. IMO anyhow.

[cgjackson222]

Even though a max bid works best when it is in secret, I think it could still have some value here. For instance, if one knows they are no going to be able to provide a bid at the end of the auction because of conflicting plans/circumstances, one could submit a max. bid ahead of time. I would rather be able to submit a max bid than just submit a "straight" max bid. At least the bidder than has a chance, albeit small, that they can win without reaching their true max.

Leon, thanks for exploring ways to potentially improve systems on Net54.

EDIT: Yeah, this isn't going to work.

[bnorth]

I vote a BIG NO and we leave as is. If someone puts in a decent max bid they could win it for peanuts because nobody else bids because there would really be no reason to unless their max was higher.

As a friendly reminder we have an amazing $1 starting bid auction section. Stop buy and bid on one of the listings or list something you no longer cherish.

On a side note a few years ago I had a member try to pay me $1 more than the underbidder saying he thought the auction section worked like eBay. He was a long time member but must not have ever used the auction section before.

[parkplace33]

Because of how public the bidding process is here, I vote no.

[D. Bergin]

It doesn't work when all bids are public for everybody to see.

It's like being at a live auction. What you bid is what you pay.

Unless you want to install some bidding software into Net54 where all identities and bids are kept secret...I don't see any way around that.

[scooter729]

I think it could be tough to do as you describe, Leon.

Say someone has that $100 card up for auction. Someone bids $50. Why wouldn't I then bid $1,000 for it. No one is going to outbid me. And per the "$1 higher" rule, I would get the card for $51. Seller would be upset, likely not want to sell it, etc.

I like where you're trying to go with it, but unfortunately a public max bid in that format I don't think will work great.

[pawpawdiv9]

As a recent 1st time winner- I vote No
The thrill was to get the highest bid in at the last
Second- which I did as time expired
It was so much fun
Keep it the same

[Leon]

I was just thinking, as how there seems to be a lot of bids AT 8:00pm, that someone (me) could in effect snipe at the very end. So, I wait about 50 seconds after the counter turns to 8...then bid my max....it was just a thought

But hey, this is why a lot of different views help.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was just thinking, as how there seems to be a lot of bids AT 8:00pm, that someone (me) could in effect snipe at the very end. So, I wait about 50 seconds after the counter turns to 8...then bid my max....it was just a thought

But hey, this is why a lot of different views help.

I have sniped on here similar to that with several browsers open all with different bids ready to hit SUBMIT in the last seconds.

[Smarti5051]

I have no standing (as I have never participated in a Net54 auction), but I see the two flaws as this:

(1) as many have stated, there will likely be scenarios where bidders will feel the bids were artificially raised to come in just under the original bidder's max bid; or

(2) the max bid could have chilling effect on bidding, resulting in seller getting less than the card is worth. For instance, let's say you have a card that routinely sells for $100 in similar condition on Ebay. Seller starts it at $1, and after a few replies, the bidding is up to $45. Next guy posts a max bid of $500. What is the motivation for anyone to bid $50, much less $100? And, if someone does bid $120 (knowing they have no chance of winning), the $500 bidder might harbor some resentment that his bid was raised by a guy that bid knowing full well he was not going to be in the running for the card.

While some auctions will likely go smoothly, I think there will be enough headaches from the problem auctions to make you wish you had not implemented the policy.

[x2drich2000]

I would vote no as well. I think if you want to get rid of the sniping aspect just have a rule that the auction ends when no bids have been placed for x amount of time. That would give anyone who has been outsnipped a chance to up their bid.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I would vote no as well. I think if you want to get rid of the sniping aspect just have a rule that the auction ends when no bids have been placed for x amount of time. That would give anyone who has been outsnipped a chance to up their bid.

Well, I was more proposing a new snipe scenario, in effect.

As for adding time to the last bid, even 2 minutes, could work? But then that could be hard to manage. Nothing is going to change unless there is a consensus to do so....
.

[Leon]

Good points, as well as most others in this thread.

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I have no standing (as I have never participated in a Net54 auction), but I see the two flaws as this:

(1) as many have stated, there will likely be scenarios where bidders will feel the bids were artificially raised to come in just under the original bidder's max bid; or

(2) the max bid could have chilling effect on bidding, resulting in seller getting less than the card is worth. For instance, let's say you have a card that routinely sells for $100 in similar condition on Ebay. Seller starts it at $1, and after a few replies, the bidding is up to $45. Next guy posts a max bid of $500. What is the motivation for anyone to bid $50, much less $100? And, if someone does bid $120 (knowing they have no chance of winning), the $500 bidder might harbor some resentment that his bid was raised by a guy that bid knowing full well he was not going to be in the running for the card.

While some auctions will likely go smoothly, I think there will be enough headaches from the problem auctions to make you wish you had not implemented the policy.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I would vote no as well. I think if you want to get rid of the sniping aspect just have a rule that the auction ends when no bids have been placed for x amount of time. That would give anyone who has been outsnipped a chance to up their bid.

I do this with my auctions in the other Net54 Live Auction section.

There is some occasional confusion, and the rules have to be laid out very clearly, but I think it has worked out well for the most part.

Requires a bit more hands on oversight from the seller, but it's can be workable if everybody is on the same page.

[ALBB]

I agree with response/ scenario -

If the current bid is 50...and card is worth about that...is someone goes - $300

pretty sure nobody will bid anymore....and it would be puzzling/suspicious if someone then did bid - $275 ..there would be almost no point to it

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ALBB

I agree with response/ scenario -

If the current bid is 50...and card is worth about that...is someone goes - $300

pretty sure nobody will bid anymore....and it would be puzzling/suspicious if someone then did bid - $275 ..there would be almost no point to it

Except to jack someone up LOL...

.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Leon

Well, I was more proposing a new snipe scenario, in effect.

As for adding time to the last bid, even 2 minutes, could work? But then that could be hard to manage. Nothing is going to change unless there is a consensus to do so....
.

That would work well. Auction closes at 8:00, but if there is a bid at 8:00, then the auction ends at 8:02. If there's another bid at 8:02, it ends at 8:04. And so on. That's how live auctions work - everybody has an opportunity at the end. Each bid from 8:00 on adds 2 minutes to the close time.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I have been sniped at the last second on here but I gave credit to the sniper, dusted myself off and moved on. Personally I don't see the need for max bids or extensions.

IMO the biggest problem with the bst auctions is how few of them there are! (Excepting the ones that just sit there because the starting bid is too high...)

[doug.goodman]

Sniping is the most logical way to bid.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I have been sniped at the last second on here but I gave credit to the sniper, dusted myself off and moved on. Personally I don't see the need for max bids or extensions.

IMO the biggest problem with the bst auctions is how few of them there are! (Excepting the ones that just sit there because the starting bid is too high...)

There is a section where all auctions start at $1....

.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Leon

There is a section where all auctions start at $1....

.

Yes, I really appreciate that we have that section now. I just wish there were more auctions there

[Brownie33]

I am not a huge fan, but I do see how this could work in theory. I can see it causing some confusion as well. I know getting sniped is no fun and does happen. One thing I have really liked that some people do is the 10 minute rule for those who have placed a bid before the end of the auction. Then you have extended bidding and it ends after a full ten minutes have gone by without another bid. I have found that this has been helpful to prevent last second sniping.

[chalupacollects]

The only way this could work is if all max bids are messaged to the seller in private. However, you would have to take the sellers word for it on who the winner is..

So, for instance someone bids $200 max bid with a public bid (on the post) of $50 and someone else bids $201 but the public bid was only $25. Then theoretically the $25 bid would win at $51.

Which kind of makes the public bids kind of useless or keeps them in the game... I dunno..

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I vote a BIG NO and we leave as is. If someone puts in a decent max bid they could win it for peanuts because nobody else bids because there would really be no reason to unless their max was higher.

Agree with Ben here for the same reasons.

Other than that same reason, I can see too much chance of someone being just a jerk and bidding one dollar less than the previous max just to stick it to someone, or perhaps a friend doing it for another. Too much possible mud to wade through.

[jimq16415]

I like the way it is now when the seller lists a 10 minute rule. If it's a card you want you can bid in less than 10 minutes and you only lose the auction if you decide to stop bidding. No arguments or hurt feelings about being sniped or about what time it ended.

[Northviewcats]

I am one of the guys who waits until the last minute to bid on an auction. I determine what I bid based on what I think the card is worth to me. There have been several times in the last three months when I have placed a bid on this site way over the underbidder and won. I would have saved money under the proposed change to the rules. However, I can see where my gain would be at the seller's expense. I hope that the seller is happy with the sale, too, and he will continue to offer items to bid on.

I also enjoy the rush of bidding at the last minute. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't consider it sniping if you are present online and you place your bid as the clock runs down. Sniping, to me, is placing a bid through a service that bids for you in the last seconds of an auction. You don't even have to be online at the time the clock runs out. Where is the excitement in that?

I recommend we leave the rules the same.

Best regards,

Joe

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I vote a BIG NO and we leave as is. If someone puts in a decent max bid they could win it for peanuts because nobody else bids because there would really be no reason to unless their max was higher.

As a friendly reminder we have an amazing $1 starting bid auction section. Stop buy and bid on one of the listings or list something you no longer cherish.

On a side note a few years ago I had a member try to pay me $1 more than the underbidder saying he thought the auction section worked like eBay. He was a long time member but must not have ever used the auction section before.

This could easily be resolved by putting a reserve on it.

Otherwise, I am BIG TIME in favor of it. I have bought close to 700 things, including cards, from eBay. The sellers sometimes put an amount to open they can live with if only one bidder bids. Sometimes they don't, and the buyer gets a bargain. Sometimes the seller puts a reserve on the item.

And then I will say again for the umpteenth time to all the brain-dead or pompous, egocentric, horses-ass sellers who are "listening to offers". I've got an offer for you, and it's dangling in my shorts! Put an f-ing price on it, if you truly want to sell. Otherwise you are obnoxious in the extreme.

[FrankWakefield]

Presently, what is in place works.

I'd be annoyed if there's an $80 to $90 card, that would fill a troublesome hole in my collection, the last few bids have been $40, $41, $50, $51, $55, so I bid $130 with an hour to go, and go to bed... Next day I see someone with whom I've been abrasive in the past (a considerable multitude) has bid $129 with a minute to go. No Sir, what is in place is simple and functional.

And No to bids extending the time. That adds confusion, makes it a game instead of an auction...

I reckon folks that don't like what there is now can forego bidding.... and folks content with the present can be done with auctions if they change. What's the problem with how it is now, again???


Maybe I should audition as a 60 Minutes curmudgeon.

[G1911]

The current system suppresses bids, because there is no ability to do a max. One of the regular sellers on the free-for-all auction board had or has a good system with allowing a bid 15 minutes or so after ending so that somebody can't top by $1 at X:59 and nobody else has time to get one in. There are definitely times I would have bid higher if I had a chance to do so on the clock or could place a max bid.

However, with an open public posting format, I don't see how a max bid placed would fix the issue. If I bid a $150 max, someone will then bid $149 just because people are like that.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by G1911

The current system suppresses bids, because there is no ability to do a max. One of the regular sellers on the free-for-all auction board had or has a good system with allowing a bid 15 minutes or so after ending so that somebody can't top by $1 at X:59 and nobody else has time to get one in. There are definitely times I would have bid higher if I had a chance to do so on the clock or could place a max bid.

However, with an open public posting format, I don't see how a max bid placed would fix the issue. If I bid a $150 max, someone will then bid $149 just because people are like that.

Say it ain't so...

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jimq16415

I like the way it is now when the seller lists a 10 minute rule. If it's a card you want you can bid in less than 10 minutes and you only lose the auction if you decide to stop bidding. No arguments or hurt feelings about being sniped or about what time it ended.

I agree, but I'd make it 2 minutes instead of 10. That way people can go back and forth a few times and not have to stay at it for another hour.

[HercDriver]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Presently, what is in place works.

I'd be annoyed if there's an $80 to $90 card, that would fill a troublesome hole in my collection, the last few bids have been $40, $41, $50, $51, $55, so I bid $130 with an hour to go, and go to bed... Next day I see someone with whom I've been abrasive in the past (a considerable multitude) has bid $129 with a minute to go. No Sir, what is in place is simple and functional.

And No to bids extending the time. That adds confusion, makes it a game instead of an auction...

I reckon folks that don't like what there is now can forego bidding.... and folks content with the present can be done with auctions if they change. What's the problem with how it is now, again???


Maybe I should audition as a 60 Minutes curmudgeon.

I would argue the other way. Extending the time is the only way to make it an “auction” in the BST. If you don’t have extended bidding, then it becomes the “game” of who can hit 8:00:59 before the other guy, without going to 8:01:00.

[GoldenAge50s]

As a long-time lister on Net54 auctions, I prefer keeping things the way they are now regarding this suggestion, but Thank You Leon for always trying to improve the site!

[cubman1941]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Presently, what is in place works.

I'd be annoyed if there's an $80 to $90 card, that would fill a troublesome hole in my collection, the last few bids have been $40, $41, $50, $51, $55, so I bid $130 with an hour to go, and go to bed... Next day I see someone with whom I've been abrasive in the past (a considerable multitude) has bid $129 with a minute to go. No Sir, what is in place is simple and functional.

And No to bids extending the time. That adds confusion, makes it a game instead of an auction...

I reckon folks that don't like what there is now can forego bidding.... and folks content with the present can be done with auctions if they change. What's the problem with how it is now, again???


Maybe I should audition as a 60 Minutes curmudgeon.

While I am in agreement with what has been said, the logic is faulted (unless I missed something and that is possible). if one bids $130 and with a minute to go one bids $129 - the $130 will win. The time limit does "force" people to stay up and watch until the end and the end and the end. I think that an "X" minute rule to the end of the auction would be the best way to go. It gives people who are really interested one last chance to bid what they really want to spend on the item.

[FrankWakefield]

As I had understood, if the bidding was at $55, then I bid $130, the initial proposal would have me winning for $56. But if someone bids $129 after my $130, then I have to pay $130.

I may well not understand how the public max bids would work.

The very fact that we're having this discussion is a reason to not change it.

[philliesfan]

I agree with others not to change it. But I do like the 10 minute rule. I may start that with some of my auctions.
Bob

[cubman1941]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

As I had understood, if the bidding was at $55, then I bid $130, the initial proposal would have me winning for $56. But if someone bids $129 after my $130, then I have to pay $130.

I may well not understand how the public max bids would work.

The very fact that we're having this discussion is a reason to not change it.

Agree - not to change.

[matthew]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Yes, I really appreciate that we have that section now. I just wish there were more auctions there

I try to list a few $1 auctions per month. If everyone here would do the same, there would be some amazing items on there. (Shameless plug - check out mine for this week!)

[jfkheat]

I vote no. I haven't read all of the responses but I can see three major issues with doing this.

1. If someone lists a $200 card someone could put in a max bid of $200 and other possible bidders could be scared away knowing they wouldn't have a chance to win the card at less than $200. The card could potentially sell for $50 or so.

2. If someone lists a $200 card someone could put in a max bid of $200 and another member could put in a bid of $199 just to make the $200 bidder pay his max bid.

3. If someone lists a $200 card someone could put in a max bid of $200 and the seller could have a friend place shill bids to run the bid up