150/350 T206's with seldom seen 350 backs....SURVEY

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

There are exactly 156 cards issued in the 1st Series of T206's in 1909. This Series
includes the cards of Honus Wagner, Plank, and the Magie (error). We do know that
11 of these 1st series cards were not printed in the subsequent 350 Series. Wagner,
of course, is the most significant one and the Magie error exists only with a P150 back.
The other 9 cards are identified in the EPDG Thread.

From this Thread we have also realized that there are 8 other cards in the T206 set
that are primarily 150 Series cards; but, some do exist with a 350 back. However,
these "350 cards" are very rare, and furthermore, they only appear to exist with a
Piedmont 350 back (no Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 backs). The following
list identifies these T206 cards.....so, you T206 collectors.....please check-out your
cards again and give us your inputs to this continuing survey.

Player.......................P350......SC350...... Sov 350

Ames (hands/chest).......0

Dahlen (Boston)............?

Doyle (fldg)..................1

Durham........................1

Ewing...........................0

Jones (St. Louis)............1

Lindaman......................1

Schulte (front-Cubs)........?

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Posted By: RayB

Ted,
I only have:
Ames
Doyle
Lindaman

All Piedmont 150 Series.
RayB

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Posted By: Drew

Ted

All 150 series.


Drew

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Posted By: Scott T

I have all the cards and all have 150 series backs, except Dahlen which has on Old Mill back.

Scott

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Posted By: Bill

All of my cards are from the 150 series, and a few of the cards I have duplicates and they are also 150 series.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Ames (hands/chest) - SC 150
Dahlen (Boston) - SC 150
Doyle (throwing) - P 150
Durham - SC 350
Ewing - SC 150
Jones (St. Louis) - P 150
Lindaman - SC 150
Schulte (front-Cubs) - SC 150

So, I've got a SC 350 of Durham -- It's nice, but trimmed. I'd be happy to trade it for an unaltered VG condition Durham 150, if anyone wants to trade. E-mail me at pmifsud3d@gmail.com if interested....

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

OK, a good start on this Survey, so far there are 7 responses (incl. two "readers"
that have emailed me). And, as in the EPDG thread the majority of inputs are
P150, SC150, or Sov150. Updated here are the few "350" inputs and an Old Mill.

Player.......................P350......SC350...... Sov 350......OLD MILL

Ames (hands/chest).......0

Dahlen (Boston)............?............................. ...............1

Doyle (fldg)..................1

Durham........................2...........1

Ewing...........................0

Jones (St. Louis)............1

Lindaman......................1

Schulte (front-Cubs)........?

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Posted By: Mike (18colt)

All of mine are Piedmont/Sweet Caporal 150 except Dahlen (Boston), which is a Hindu.

Mike (18colt)

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Posted By: barry arnold

great idea for a thread, TRex---and many thanks for the email!!!

ames,doyle,ewing,durham are all p150

my lindaman is epdg


keep the research coming, t206 scholars!

best,

barry

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,

Glad you started the thread. I'm on holiday until the 15th--checking in from time-to-time between now and then.

Another crazy idea I had was to start a community T206 superset. That is, since nobody can realistically collect all 6900 (theoretical) front/back combinations, the task could be split up among a couple of dozen board participants. For example, you could be assigned Piedmont 150s (since you already have those) or maybe all Piedmonts other than Factory 42s. Brian could take Hindu (since he already has a bunch of those). I know another gentleman who is already collecting all of the Sweet Cap 150/649s. (Yeah, I know, who would want to tackle Drum or Uzit?) But the point is that with a bunch of dedicated T206ers focussed on particular niches, we might be able to put together a group collection of at least a few thousand different front/back combinations. And we could report back periodically on a thread on this board. I think it would be an interesting project and could add a lot to the T206 knowledge base. Just gauging interest at this point.

Scot

P.S. I'm not suggesting shared ownership or anything like that; just group participation toward a common goal.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Scot,
Good idea. Count me in, but I can handle more than Hindu's, I have quite a few Carolina Brights, and probably more Drums than most. lmk Brian

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Posted By: robert a

Scot,

I think that's a fine idea.

Robert

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Posted By: Drew

Scot
I would be interested in the T206 superset project, great idea.


Drew

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Posted By: barry arnold

great idea Scot.

since i cracked 400 206's some months back, my mind is hooked on getting as
close to completing the set (for the first time)as I possibly can. I don't have any back anywhere near completion.

How about i act as a general researcher and analyst?
In other words, i'm on board SOMEHOW!

best,

barry

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Posted By: Dave

Here's what I have:


Ames (hands/chest) SC 150

Dahlen (Boston) P 150

Doyle (fldg) P 150

Durham P 150

Ewing P 150

Jones (St. Louis) P 150

Lindaman P 150

Schulte (front-Cubs) SC 150

Sorry, no 350's

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Ames (hands/chest)....Piedmont 150 Fact. 25

Dahlen (Boston).......Piedmont 150 Fact. 25

Doyle (fldg)..........Piedmont 150 Fact. 25

Durham................don't own

Ewing.................ePdG

Jones (St. Louis).....don't own

Lindaman..............Piedmont 150 Fact. 25

Schulte (front-Cubs)..don't own


Sorry, not much help in this survey.

Ed

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Ed

Your inputs on this subject (as all the others so far) are proving the point we
are trying to ascertain....that 350 backs on these particular 8 cards are very
difficult to find. Therefore, don't feel sorry.

And, your Ewing with an EPDG back is tough, thanks for your contribution.

Ted

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Posted By: E. Angyal

Ted,

Is the info from my spreadsheet of any use, and did you incorporate it into the most recent back summaries?

Eric

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Ted and Barry,

The idea of the super set is great and I'd like to help, although about the only cards I have that might help would be the Lenox, Tolstois, ePdGs and Broadleaf 460. Let me know if you are requesting scans to put together a huge data base, or just card front/back combinations.

Thanks for all the info on the board from the collectors of the t206 set.

Ed

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Posted By: Bill

Ted,

I love the idea of a collector's Super Set. If the many collectors of T206's would email me a list of their front/back combinations I will input the data into my spreadsheet checklist. Besides the normal mix of Piedmont and Sweet Caporal, my collection has over 100 different cards with Sovereign backs. Once the data is input, I will email the spreadsheet to each collector. Bill

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bill

A "Super Set" of T206's........Now that is an interesting challenge. Bill Heitman
would certainly be proud of us for even daring to consider such a worthy goal.

I have a head start on this as I've been putting together an "All-Piedmont" set
since last December. Of the 518 possible cards in this set, I now have 470.
Of course I am not going to acquire Wagner, Plank, Magie, or Joe Doyle (error).
And, no need for Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis vars.) since they only exist with
Polar Bear backs.

So, the big question is who will take on the challenge of all the other backs ?
With your collection of Sovereign backs that are approx. 20% of a set, perhaps
you should go for it.

In any event, this is tremendous idea that Scot Reader originally suggested.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: RayB

The original topic is getting sidetracked; in a very noble way mind you. This might be a great time to start the topic of "Super Set" anew, so this topic can stay on point.
I'll ask though, does anyone have a clear cut count on the number of possible EPDG's?
Any answers in a new "Super Set Thread" would be appreciated best I think.
RayB

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

RayB

Let's do the math together for your query regarded an EPDG set.......

No Wagner, Plank, Magie, Joe Doyle (error), Demmitt & O'Hara (St Louis vars.),
no 150-only (9 cards) and no Southern Lgers (48 cards).....total = 63 cards.

Subtract 63 from 524 and you have 461 possible cards with EPDG backs.

But, fair warning to you.....EPDG backs of cards in the 460 Series are much scarcer
than cards in the 150/350 Series. And, this will make it extremely tough to acquire
all the possible 461 cards with EPDG backs.

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Posted By: RayB

Scary thought really....and totally hypothetical. The idea of it is quite monumental.
Thanks for the clear headed review.
RayB

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Posted By: Art M.

Ted,
Here is a recap of my T206 cards for your current back survey:

Ames (hands/chest)....sc150-30, sc150-30, sc150-30, p150
Dahlen (Boston).......p150
Doyle (fldg)..........p150, p150, sc150-30
Durham................p150, sc350-30 (from Alan Hager, sold years ago)
Ewing.................p150, sc150-25, sc150-30
Jones (St. Louis).....p150, sc150-30, sc150-30, hindu brown
Lindaman..............Sov150, p150
Schulte (front-Cubs)..p150, sc150-30, sc150-30

Many of the T206 cards that are available with both 150 and 350 backs are much harder to find with the "350" back. Even on these tougher survey cards the 350 backs are indeed available despite the difficulty.

Ted - do you have an extra Lundgren, Chicago for sale or trade?

Art M.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Art M

Thanks for all your inputs. My last extra Lundgren (Cubs) went at the
Cooperstown Show recently. I am always hunting for this card, so the
next one I acquire is yours. What condition do you want ?

Do you have an extra Broadleaf 460 you want to part with ?

Ted Z

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Ted, of the cards in this survey they are all 150's with the exception of a Ewing EPDG and Lindaman Hindu (is there any way we can tell a 150 Hindu from a 350 Hindu?).

Lee

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Posted By: Art M.

Lee -
The major league players with brown Hindu are from the 150 series. The 350 series brown Hindu players are only the Southern Leaguers.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Thanks Art,

That is new information to me, so there are no Brown Hindu that are not in the 150 series other than SLer's?

How many total non SLer Brown Hindus are possible?

Lee

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Lee B

Of the 48 Southern Leaguers, 42 of them can be found with Brown HINDU backs.

And, I think it is possible that all 153 of the 156 cards in the 150 Series can be
found with brown HINDU backs. The 3 exceptions are Wagner, Plank and Magie.

Now, the RED HINDU backs I think exist with cards in the 350/460 Series. The few
I have are from players in that series.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Eric A.

Sorry, I didn't respond sooner regarding your spreadsheet; but, I was away. I found
it very interesting. It is very well presented and I have saved it.

The data from it that relate to this survey are Lindaman (HINDU) and Lundgren (Cubs
with a Piedmont 350 back).

Thanks much, and I will be referring to it again. Also, I may have a question (or two)
and might just call you.

Ted Z

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Lee,
Only 37 of the 42 possible Southern Leaguers have been seen with Hindu backs. Art and I have been looking for several decades, so I doubt the other 5 are possible. I am 3 cards short of a set of 37, which I believe will be complete at 37. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BRIAN W

I am surprised that all 42 (1st run) Southern Leaguers are not available with
HINDU backs. Who are the 5 that you noted are not ?

And, I have a few HINDU's left....which SL guys do you need....perhaps I can
help ?

Ted Z

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
Other than the known 6 Texas League cards, the following players have not been seen with Hindu backs:
Jimmy Hart
Bill Hart
Lentz
Orth
Westlake


Thanks Brian

I'll email you a list of the few I need when I get home later. Thanks Brian

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Posted By: John

Ted,

I was wondering the other night why this card was getting so much action. LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&item=230014107136&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

After reading all of this post now I know why. I guess you can put me down for one 350 Lindaman. I will check any of my other T206's to see if I have any others. Good luck with your data collecting.

John

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Posted By: joe brennan

I own 3 of the cards on the list:

Ames (hands/chest).......150

Dahlen (Boston)..........150

Doyle (fldg).............150

Joe


People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

John

I, for one, was also bidding on this Lindaman. It is indeed a very rare "bird".

With 600+ inputs we had on the EPDG thread, not a single Lindaman with a 350 back
appeared. There are 6 Lindaman cards in my collection and they are all Piedmont 150.

So, now you know why there was a lot of bidding on this card you won.

TED Z

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
The card would have gone higher, but I stayed out to let you win. Little did I know John was waiting to snipe. I guess my Jones 350 is pretty valuable now tooooo...... Be well Brian

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Posted By: Betty

These are the backs for the 7 cards of interest in my set:
Ames(hands/chest) Sweet Cap 150 Fact 30
Dahlen (Boston) Sweet Cap 150 Fact 30
Doyle (Fielding) Sweep Cap 150 Fact 30
Durham Piedmont 150
Ewing Sweet Cap 150 fact 649
Jones (St Louis) EPDG
Lindaman Piedmont 150

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Posted By: JimB

For me, the first seven listed are all Piedmont 150s. My Schulte front is a Sweet Cap 150.
JimB

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

UPGRADED 8/10/06

Thanks for your inputs....Art M., Barry A., Betty, Dave, Ed, JimB, John W., Joe,
Mike, and two members that have emailed me with their inputs.

As in the EPDG thread the majority of inputs are P150, SC150, or Sov150. And,
a very surprising OLD MILL.

John W. your very rare P350 Lindaman had already been tabulated.


Player.......................P350......SC350...... Sov 350......OLD MILL

Ames (hands/chest).......0

Dahlen (Boston).............0............................ ...............1

Doyle (fldg)...................1

Durham.........................2...........2

Ewing...........................0

Jones (St. Louis).............1

Lindaman.......................1

Schulte (front-Cubs)........?

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

BRIAN W.

Thanks for not contending with me on the Lindaman. I will certainly return the
favor if I see you are bidding on a particular item in the future.

Yes, the P350 Lindaman went much higher than a "150" Lindaman would normally
go for. And, I would certainly expect your P350 Tom Jones to go quite high if you
chose to sell it. It all depends on how many T206 "nuts", like us, are bidding for it.

Incidently, these are the five So. Lger. HINDU backs that I have.......Breitenstein,
Guiheen, Hooker, Howard, and LaFitte. How difficult will it be to try to acquire the
remaining 32 cards ?

TED

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bill B.

Thanx for your colorful T206 spread sheet. I'm still studying it; but, so far
have not found any new data that can be added to this Survey.

We need 100's of more inputs to see if we can confirm the four remaining
150/350 cards were ever printed with 350 backs. We were patient enough
for over two months and sure enough a P350 back finally appeared for the
Lindaman card.

The fact that some of these were confirmed with EPDG backs implies that
there should be a 350 back "lurking" out there somewhere.

So guys.....let's keep the data rolling in.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: tdc

I have a Dahlen, Boston Piedmont 350 in psa 5, Ewing Piedmont 150 psa 6.

Hope that helps.

tdc

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

tdc

Your Piedmont 350 Dahlen (Boston) is the very first 350 back we have seen on this card.
It was not evident in all the numerous inputs we received on the EPDG thread. We really
appreciate this data.

Thanks much....Ted Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

UPGRADED 8/12/06

Still lots of 150 inputs.....but, only two new 350 inputs (Dahlen and Doyle).


Player.......................P350......SC350...... Sov 350......OLD MILL

Ames (hands/chest).......0

Dahlen (Boston)............1............................. ...............1

Doyle (fldg)..................1...........1

Durham........................2...........2

Ewing...........................0

Jones (St. Louis)............1

Lindaman......................1

Schulte (front-Cubs)........?

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Posted By: ralph

I too have all the cards on the list,....and you are correct about what you said

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Posted By: Martin Neal

Haven't seen the updated list lately, but...
Also picked up a G. Brown Hindu

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I posted a recent Net54 thread updating this survey....check it on this link......

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1206061155/last-1207257876/T206+%26quot%3BElite+Eleven%26quot%3B....
various+backs+%26amp%3B+final+SURVEY


TED Z

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Posted By: Darren

My counts via spreadsheet

Ames (hands/chest) -- P150, SC 150
Dahlen (Boston) -- SC 150
Doyle (fldg) -- P150, P350 -- I'm assuming this is the hands over head pose
Durham -- P150 x 3
Ewing -- SC 150
Jones (St. Louis) -- EPDG
Lindaman -- EPDG, SC 150
Schulte (front.Cubs) -- P150