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  #1  
Old 10-03-2003, 07:32 AM
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Posted By: runscott 

Looking for opinions on 19th century baseball reference material. I refer to the following regularly:

"Nineteenth Century Stars" - SABR. This is a great large-format paperback which includes stats/photos/extensive bios, for 19th cent. stars not in the HOF. This is a good place to find player stats prior to 1870, for 136 star players. Amazing effort.

"Nineteenth Century Baseball" - Marshall Wright,350 pp. Hardback,1996, year-by-year stats for all ML Teams, 1871-1900. Extensive team AND player stats, good stories.

"Baseball 1845-1881" - Preston Orem, 1961, 359 pp. Fabulous book, based on newspaper accounts, lots of pictures and great stories. Contains standings, but not stats.

I would like a book that contains team AND player stats, for years up to 1870, especially the major teams from 1868-1870. I realize that there was a plethora of teams during those years, stats were scanty and undependable. But any data available would be great. In fact, if anyone has suggestions as to how to begin, I don't mind doing some of the research.

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  #2  
Old 10-03-2003, 08:27 AM
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Posted By: Jeff S

Scott,

You may have this, but "Baseball's First Stars" is sort of the sequel to "Nineteenth Century Stars." It includes HOFers, though it is probably a little less focused on pre-1871 stuff.

I don't know of any compilations of stats from the period you mention. I suspect they are not published in a widely available format. Aside from local papers, places to look to do the research yourself include Porter's Spirit of the Times, Wilkes's Spirit of the Times, and Henry Chadwick's newspaper, which I believe was called "Base Ball Player's Chronicle," and was only published for about a year.

If you are a member of SABR, I ~strongly~ recommend joining the 19th century committee and then joining the 19th century e-group, which many of the most active members frequently contribute to. I know that some members have done extensive research on that era for their particular region (e.g. Peter Morris, who just published a great book on Early Baseball in Michigan), and many of the people who wrote the articles for Nineteenth Century Stars are accessible through the list, and very helpful.

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Old 10-03-2003, 09:02 AM
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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Good selection Scott, here are some more:

http://www.pocolpress.com/19cbooks.htm

Baseball Pioneers: Ratings of Nineteenth Century Players, Charles F. Faber, McFarland, 1997.

Baseball: The Early Years, Harold Seymour, Oxford UP, 1960.

Before the Curse: The Glory Days of New England Baseball, 1858-1918, Troy Soos, Parnassus, 1997.

Blackguards and Red Stockings: A History of Baseball’s National Association, 1871-1875, William J. Ryczek, McFarland, 1992.

The National Game: Second Edition, (reprint of 1911) Alfred H. Spink, Southern Illinois University Press, 2000.

Nineteenth Century Baseball: Year-by-Year Statistics for the Major League Teams, 1871 through 1900, Marshall D. Wright, McFarland, 1996.

Most of them are found pretty cheap on eBay, so no need to use amazon or bookfinder.

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Old 10-03-2003, 09:18 AM
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Posted By: Jay Miller

Scott---THere are also the Reach and the Spaulding guides. There have been reprints done of some of these which sell for about $10 each. I highly recommend these as a good source of data.

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  #5  
Old 10-03-2003, 09:32 AM
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Posted By: runscott

I was going to mention these guides, but they are so difficult to obtain. I had the 1891 Sporting Life guide, and it was a great source of info for the Player's League. I have also tried unsuccesfully to win some of the Spalding reprints, but after watching many of them go for $30-40 each I finally gave up. If you have any for sale at $10, please let me know.

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Old 10-03-2003, 11:23 AM
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Posted By: Jeff S

William J. Ryzcek, When Johnny Comes Marching Home.

I think the subject is precisely what you're looking for, but I haven't read it, so I don't know what statistical information is present. Blackguards and Redstockings is good, so I would expect the same from this book.

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Old 10-03-2003, 12:05 PM
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Posted By: Jeff S

That's "When Johnny Comes ~Sliding~ Home." Clever, eh?

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Old 10-03-2003, 01:16 PM
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Posted By: Rob M (ramram)

Scott - A good compilation of records and stats for the period of your interest is in Marshall D. Wright's "The National Association of Base Ball Players, 1857 - 1870". It is nothing but 300+ pages of stats. Each chapter covers a full year and every team in the Association (which, of coarse, included about any team worth mentioning) for which he could dig up information. It includes game by game results also.

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Old 10-03-2003, 01:29 PM
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Posted By: runscott

...

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Old 10-07-2003, 09:48 PM
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Posted By: Durward

Scott,
I agree with Rob's recommendation that the National Association Of Base Ball Players , 1857-1870 by Marshall Wright is the book you need to do your research. Today I received a flyer from The Scholar Bookshelf in Cranbury, NJ. They are selling this book for $9.95. The original price was $45.00. If interested, the phone number is (609)395-6933 and the website is www.scholarsbookshelf.com/baseball. The stock number of the book is 349BH.
Durward

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  #11  
Old 10-08-2003, 08:28 AM
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Posted By: runscott

and ordered.

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Old 10-10-2003, 09:15 PM
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Posted By: Durward

Scott,
No need to thank me. I need to thank you and this forum for sharing your knowledge on vintage cards. I have had a long-time interest in pre-war baseball history especially the NY Giants Baseball Club. Unfortunately I had only just starting collecting pre-war baseball cards about 2 years ago. I wish I would had started earlier. This site has been an incredible source to better educate me with vintage card collecting, 19th century history and some of the not so good things on eBay. I appreciate the knowledge shared from all the posters on this board. I hope to be able to contribute more in the future. Enjoy the book.
Durward

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Old 10-10-2003, 09:29 PM
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Posted By: Rob M (ramram)

Hey Durward - I see your interest in the 19th century NY teams...Just wondered if you had any guesses at identification of the photo I posted a while back. It is currently on page 16 of Network54 and titled: "19th Century Team images - Can you identify any of these guys?". Any thoughts??

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  #14  
Old 10-10-2003, 10:01 PM
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Posted By: Julie Vognar

well, you can learn a lot about hockey, anyway. Don't know about baseball.

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Old 10-15-2003, 08:54 PM
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Posted By: Durward

Rob,
Wow! What a great collection of photos. Without much success, I attempted to match your photo with team pictures in other reference guides. My best guess on the players that you had in question sitting on each side of Mutrie are Tiernan and Welch. Sorry that I could not provide much help.
Durward

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  #16  
Old 10-15-2003, 10:34 PM
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Posted By: runscott

and is fantastic. In addition, "The Scholar's Bookshelf" sent a list of baseball books they have for sale, and it was impressive: bios of Marquard, Waddell, Comiskey, Hal Chase, Joe Jackson, and all the usuals.

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