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  #101  
Old 11-30-2022, 09:45 AM
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This thread was moved from the watercooler section.
Players I won't collect? Not sure of any, haven't given it a ton of thought yet.
.
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  #102  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:07 AM
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No one for me. There are plenty of living people that I find repugnant enough that I'd prefer to avoid them, but that doesn't impact which cards I buy. Probably most of the players in my collection I'd find personally objectionable if I knew enough about them. Obviously, some are worse than others, but when one stops believing in contra-causal free will, one also stops holding people morally accountable for their character.
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  #103  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:14 AM
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Lebron James.
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  #104  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:21 AM
HistoricNewspapers HistoricNewspapers is offline
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I am sure you are not someone with a lot of first hand PED knowledge so you wouldn't. At least you unlike most understand there are different types of PEDs because of your Lance Armstrong response. Most like to believe all they do is make you huge like Jose Canseco. Then they don't realize the same PED works different for everyone. Ever hear of that great MLB HR hitter Ozzie Canseco?

It is a great thing but most are so clueless with PEDs they defend their heroes from the early days by saying amphetamines are like drinking a few cups of coffee. LOL, if those cups are 5 gallons each and they downed them in less than a minute then maybe.

I have still yet to hear anything that is not completely laughable to me on why or how someone could raise their batting average 51 points over a 5 year period from age 33-37. If there is even a single batter besides Tony that did that over those same 5 years please post who it was. The era went up so there has to be others besides a ageing overweight guy right.

To go to Steve and his example of him hitting a fastball. I am willing to bet if he spent some time working in the cage he would slowly get a little better. Now if we give Steve some PEDs to increase his energy, focus, and recovery time. I would bet over the exact same time period the improvements would be on a completely different level.

This is an example of what PEDs really do. Pretend you just got done doing whatever it was that was the most physical work you have ever done in your life. You are extremely tired and at that point it is even hard to think properly. Now if on PEDs you would have done the exact same thing in half the time, wouldn't be tired at all, and still mentally sharp as a tack.

They also sure seemed to help Barry Bonds hit a baseball for a much higher average during his short stint on them. Why wouldn't they do the same for Tony?
One of the first times I have seen someone win a PED debate. Great explanation!

They work for all areas of the game.

The biggest hurdle in defeating the use of PED's is because they work.

As for someone like Gwynn, someone explained above that if you hit more fly balls, then PED will have them go further and turn into more HR. If you hit more ground balls then PED use will have them hit harder and turn them into more singles/doubles. It isn't just about power. Hitting a ground ball at 90 MPH up the middle may or may not get caught by a SS. Hitting that same ball at 98 MPH will increase the chances that it will not get caught.

PED use allows you to increase your bat speed. Increased bat speed gives you a hair longer to see a pitch. Increased bat speed means the ball comes off the bat with more velocity. Those aspects most certainly can help a batting average.

Whether Gwynn did them or not I don't know.

Last edited by HistoricNewspapers; 11-30-2022 at 11:36 AM.
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  #105  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:36 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
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I was on the sidelines for a long time trying to decide whether to buy any cards of the disreputable Hal Chase, but finally pulled the trigger on his T205 left ear shows, which i think is just a beautiful card. As Peter rightly says, "stuff trumps all".
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  #106  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:43 AM
HistoricNewspapers HistoricNewspapers is offline
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Also want to add to the point above that if someone like Gwynn is not an avid weightlifter ands takes PED, it does not mean he isn't doing resistance training. Swinging a bat is resistance training. Running is resistance training. Of course calisthenics are too. They may not make your body explode in muscle mass like a more efficient weight training program, but they are going to make your muscles increase their capabilities at what they are doing.
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  #107  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:44 AM
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If the person is in a set, they get collected within the set. I really only collect one player over and above a set and that is Frank Howard. I am reasonably sure I am in safe territory here.

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  #108  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:46 AM
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I guess what it is for me is whether the character distracts from the item. I can't see a Michael Jackson item w/o thinking "pedo", so I am not interested in having one of his cards. I have a Woody Allen autograph and there is an 'ick' factor every time I look at it. I also stopped looking for a Bill Cosby signature for my comedians collection, though if I could get it on a roofie box...maybe.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 11-30-2022 at 11:47 AM.
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  #109  
Old 11-30-2022, 12:01 PM
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I relish the history of the game and accept a lot of the conflict that has been seen over the generations. I love that I learn and even contemplate life when I look back upon some people that clearly have or had values that were different than mine. I would rather discuss some of the stains that our (fallen) heroes have had than to completely erase them. I can separate my childhood admiration for a phenomenal football player like OJ Simpson and the decisions that he made later in life which appear horrific. I look at Cap Anson and I appreciate the baseball player but am saddened and contemplate what might cause someone to hate others for no reason other than the color of their skin.

Baseball is a microcosm of life itself. Many of these players were put into the spotlight at a very young age because of their athleticism. Hopefully many of them learned things over the course of life like the rest of us have tried to do.

With all this being said I have no interest in collecting new cards of any athlete that thinks he or she can preach to society because they are a phenomenal athlete. Being the greatest basketball player of a given generation, does not make that players political, societal, religious etc. views important to me. I would rather listen to a group of men and women in a nursing home share their wisdom than to hear it from an entitled athlete, movie star, politician etc.

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  #110  
Old 11-30-2022, 01:08 PM
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I canít imagine making up a scenario in my mind that causes me to hate someone or something so much that I wouldnít communicate with a friend about that thing.

Thatís beyond weird.
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  #111  
Old 11-30-2022, 01:11 PM
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You all will remember my Hal Chase story, and how I was thoroughly vilified. Nevertheless, when it comes to Chase, "For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
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  #112  
Old 11-30-2022, 01:23 PM
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This is a fascinating thread. I don't have any specific players in my baseball collection that I specifically exclude. The people I find objectionable (Cap Anson, Josh Hamilton, Gregg Zaun, etc) played in eras I don't collect.

In a previous lifetime, when I collected hockey I refused to buy Bobby Hull singles. If I was building a set that needed one, I'd go out of my way to make his the ugliest, most beat up card I could find. It was a petty level of disrespect for a player I felt deserved it.

Last edited by skelly423; 11-30-2022 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  #113  
Old 11-30-2022, 01:49 PM
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None for me. I don't like to judge people of the past through today's moral compass lens, even if I don't agree with their actions. What societal norms of today will be looked upon harshly in 100 years?
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  #114  
Old 11-30-2022, 01:56 PM
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There are players I'm not interested in, but there is no one I would refuse to buy for moral or ethical reasons. Baseball cards and memorabilia are historical artifacts, and players are historical figures. History and historical figures include good, bad and complicated, and all people have attractive and unattractive sides.

Sometimes it is a person's bad or imperfect side that makes them fascinating.
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  #115  
Old 11-30-2022, 02:44 PM
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Interesting question re OJ Simpson: CTE? Maybe we will find out some day.
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  #116  
Old 11-30-2022, 02:52 PM
murphy8276 murphy8276 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belfast1933 View Post
Interesting topic...

My family does not love the fact that I have an N28 Cap Anson - not a good dude as it relates to integrating the game.

Here's a tangent issue - anyone ever have an issue selling to or buying from another collector or dealer with very different political slants than your own?

(I admit... I have)
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I cannot imagine living in a world where I refuse to deal with someone because they disagree with me. I don’t care if a person I am dealing with is a hardline conservative or a communist. I know good men and bad of every political stripe.

What if the wackadoo claims to have PSA 5's that "identify" as PSA 8's?

Last edited by murphy8276; 11-30-2022 at 02:52 PM.
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  #117  
Old 11-30-2022, 03:01 PM
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What if the wackadoo claims to have PSA 5's that "identify" as PSA 8's?
That made me laugh way more than it should have.
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  #118  
Old 11-30-2022, 03:19 PM
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Lebron James.
+1
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  #119  
Old 11-30-2022, 04:48 PM
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Avoiding someone entirely? Nope.

Naturally my bias for or against certain players (on and off the field, though never about political affiliations) will lead to focusing more or less on their cards. But never to the point where they affect me enough to ban someone from a collection
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  #120  
Old 11-30-2022, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Lebron James.
Because you can't afford them or what?

Trevor Bauer for me. I guess there's a chance he is innocent, and he only beat up that woman because she asked for it, but even that best case scenario doesn't make me want to grab his cards.

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  #121  
Old 11-30-2022, 05:20 PM
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Trevor Bauer for me. I guess there's a chance he is innocent, and he only beat up that woman because she asked for it, but even that best case scenario doesn't make me want to grab his cards.
I went to a game last summer at UCLA's Jackie Robinson Field and Bauer's portrait still decorated the outfield fence. Guess they might want to reconsider that one. Even if he didn't do anything criminal...ewww! Not a role model for the UCLA baseball program.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 11-30-2022 at 05:25 PM.
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  #122  
Old 11-30-2022, 05:50 PM
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I would posit that one should look at the evidence, of which there was none that Bauer was guilty and considerable that the allegation was a lie, before assuming guilt but I know how this board feels about using an evidentiary basis
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  #123  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:06 PM
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Collecting versus buying are different things. Would I buy a Barry Bonds card? Yes. Would start a collection of Barry Bonds cards? No.
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  #124  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I guess what it is for me is whether the character distracts from the item. I can't see a Michael Jackson item w/o thinking "pedo", so I am not interested in having one of his cards. I have a Woody Allen autograph and there is an 'ick' factor every time I look at it. I also stopped looking for a Bill Cosby signature for my comedians collection, though if I could get it on a roofie box...maybe.
Great thread. I am glad it was moved from water cooler (where I almost never go). Adam, I agree with you 100%. I collect signed entertainment memorabilia (here is my fully signed Led Zeppelin IV album). I will not buy a Michael jackson signature. He molested children. I hate that his songs are still played on the radio and there is a smash Broadway play about him currently selling out night by night. We are so quick to cancel people for much lesser crimes/indiscretions. This piece of shit prayed on children and life goes on in popular culture.
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Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 11-30-2022 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Remove politics reference
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  #125  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:21 PM
CurtisFlood CurtisFlood is offline
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It was so very casual the way he said it that I just knew he was a frequent user of the term. White man of a certain age from a certain region of the country, not the most surprising thing that might be said, but still shocking to hear it said in public.
Certain region of the country? There are racist individuals in your area, and in every region of the country I have visited. Boston is the absolute worst. San Diego ranks high as well.
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  #126  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Lebron James.
I’d sell my entire collection at a 90% loss before I would own one Lebron card…..and to see an auction where his cards sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars is quite sickening…….IMHO
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Last edited by JimmyC; 11-30-2022 at 06:35 PM.
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  #127  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
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Oh, and I absolutely hate Trump. I canít wait to read his obituary. I also collect historical items. I do not intend to ever own anything regarding Trump, except perhaps a piece of his Lynching Rope.
Be careful, Ryan, the last person that couldn't wait to read an obituary in this chatroom was Bruce Dorskind who couldn't wait to read mine.
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  #128  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:42 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post

Oh, and I absolutely hate Trump. I can’t wait to read his obituary. I also collect historical items. I do not intend to ever own anything regarding Trump, except perhaps a piece of his Lynching Rope.
Well we got pretty far until somebody brought it to straight up advocating violence against politicians they don’t like. And it’s the side of “tolerance”, of course

Considering the previous discussion in this very thread about lynching…. Just wow.

Last edited by G1911; 11-30-2022 at 06:43 PM.
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  #129  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:50 PM
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Be careful, Ryan, the last person that couldn't wait to read an obituary in this chatroom was Bruce Dorskind who couldn't wait to read mine.
Not sure what this means (sounds like a threat?).

I edited my original post (memorialized and quoted above) bc it’s politics talk and I should not talk politics on a baseball card site.

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 11-30-2022 at 06:54 PM.
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  #130  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:54 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Not sure what this means (sounds like a threat?).
The threat was your post advocating lynching people you donít like. Canít make this shit up lol
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  #131  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:55 PM
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Wasn’t talking to you. And BTW the constitution (not me) declares treason a crime and federal law states that death is a proper punishment for treason

I get your opinion of me. Its mutual. Move on

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 11-30-2022 at 07:23 PM.
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  #132  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Not sure what this means (sounds like a threat?).

I edited my original post (memorialized and quoted above) bc itís politics talk and I should not talk politics on a baseball card site.
I would guess more that Bruce passed away shortly afterwards.
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  #133  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:59 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Wasnít talking to you. And BTW the constitution (not me) declares that death is the punishment for treason

I get your opinion of me. Its mutual. Move on
Yeah Iím the bad guy, because youíre pro-lynching. Itís a good sign I donít have your approval. Make crazy violent posts, you will get replies. Duh.
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  #134  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:03 PM
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Yeah Iím the bad guy, because youíre pro-lynching. Itís a good sign I donít have your approval. Make crazy violent posts, you will get replies. Duh.
I didnít say you were the bad guy. I just donít like you. You donít like me. Agreed. Move on
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  #135  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:08 PM
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I didnít say you were the bad guy. I just donít like you. You donít like me. Agreed. Move on
I donít know you whatsoever and had no opinion until you explicitly advocated lynching people for political purposes. Youíre going to get a little heat for that one. Nutball murder posts usually get a little heat before the move on part.
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  #136  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:09 PM
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Default Collecting?

I have held off this one for awhile, thought I'd weigh in:

1) There are players whose cards I don't want in my collection.

2) There are also people I wouldn't buy from/trade with, even if to my
advantage, because I don't care for them.

Speaking of which, be careful RHotchkiss. The first (and only) rule of
G1911 Fightclub, is that he is ALWAYS right. He just loves to play this
game of one-upmanship, while blissfully unaware he's the only one in
the contest. Enjoy your wonderful collection and forget about him, you'll
live longer

Trent King
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  #137  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:10 PM
raulus raulus is offline
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Well we got pretty far until somebody brought it to straight up advocating violence against politicians they donít like. And itís the side of ďtoleranceĒ, of course

Considering the previous discussion in this very thread about lynchingÖ. Just wow.
Nice to see the rather negative post about politicians was edited, just because it was perhaps a bit much.

Seeing that our political discourse seems to be in a downward spiral, and wanting to not be a part of the problem, Iíve been experimenting with a different approach personally.

Naturally, there are any number of politicians that I canít stand. Comes with the territory if itís something that matters to you and you care deeply about. But rather than focus on everything that I really canít stand about them, Iíve begun to focus on the things that I like about them. Sometimes itís a short list. Sometimes it takes me a while to think long and hard until I can identify the things that I do like. But even with some that drive me nuts, I can usually find something positive to say, and celebrate those successes for our country.

Iíve found that by focusing on the positive, Iím a lot less negative about politics, and I find itís easier to find my own zen when discussing politicians with others. Thus far, it has worked wonders when Iíve engaged in conversations with heated partisans who vehemently disagree with my own political views.

Along these lines, Iíve also stopped voting for and financially supporting politicians who insist on engaging in pandering to their base and demonizing the opposing candidate or party. Naturally, the list of candidates that make the cut is a bit shorter this way.

It may not be a panacea, but by following this approach, I feel just a little bit better about being part of the solution, rather than perpetuating and magnifying our current lack of civility in politics.
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  #138  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Not sure what this means (sounds like a threat?).

I edited my original post (memorialized and quoted above) bc it’s politics talk and I should not talk politics on a baseball card site.
Not a threat at all. Just trying to be funny, but maybe you were not around when Bruce was on the forum? Bruce actually did say he wished to read my obituary. that even made it into a story in the New York Daily News which I'm sure could not have made Bruce happy considering his standing in the business world in NYC. He had threatened to contact a Net54 member's employer over something they had said to him on the forum. I stated my objection to that and then he wished to see me dead.
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Last edited by slidekellyslide; 11-30-2022 at 07:10 PM.
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  #139  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:12 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh View Post
I have held off this one for awhile, thought I'd weigh in:

1) There are players whose cards I don't want in my collection.

2) There are also people I wouldn't buy from/trade with, even if to my
advantage, because I don't care for them.

Speaking of which, be careful RHotchkiss. The first (and only) rule of
G1911 Fightclub, is that he is ALWAYS right. He just loves to play this
game of one-upmanship, while blissfully unaware he's the only one in
the contest. Enjoy your wonderful collection and forget about him, you'll
live longer

Trent King
Lol. Iím wrong for my *anti-lynching* stance. The problem here is that I think my opinion of being *against lynching* is correct. This is a GREAT topic for you to hijack to your personal obsession. Excellent choice.
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  #140  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:16 PM
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edjs edjs is offline
€dw@rd Sk€£t0n
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Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
Not a threat at all. Just trying to be funny, but maybe you were not around when Bruce was on the forum? Bruce actually did say he wished to read my obituary. that even made it into a story in the New York Daily News which I'm sure could not have made Bruce happy considering his standing in the business world in NYC. He had threatened to contact a Net54 member's employer over something they had said to him on the forum. I stated my objection to that and then he wished to see me dead.
Did he ever sue Archive? Thereís been some interesting folks here.
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Collecting PCL, Southern Association, and type cards.
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  #141  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:16 PM
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Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
Not a threat at all. Just trying to be funny, but maybe you were not around when Bruce was on the forum? Bruce actually did say he wished to read my obituary. that even made it into a story in the New York Daily News which I'm sure could not have made Bruce happy considering his standing in the business world in NYC. He had threatened to contact a Net54 member's employer over something they had said to him on the forum. I stated my objection to that and then he wished to see me dead.
I appreciate the explanation, thank you!! Well, if karma gets me then that’s a trend and the rest of you will know not to use the “o” word on net54. And I have no issue with the world (beyond net54) knowing my disdain (hatred) for that person.

Anyway, sorry to get political. I will not be collecting Trump stuff bc of morals. I should have left it at that

Thanks for note Trent, much appreciated (sincerely)

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 11-30-2022 at 07:18 PM.
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  #142  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:47 PM
ClementeFanOh ClementeFanOh is online now
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G1911- I'm not "obsessed" with you by any definition of the term. You're the
type who needs to be backed down whenever you display internet muscles
and, frankly, it amuses me to think of you furiously typing while adjusting your
pocket protector and smelling your favorite sabermetrics book. Now then, I've
got a life, so you go ahead and fire away, sunshine

Trent King
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  #143  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:52 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh View Post
G1911- I'm not "obsessed" with you by any definition of the term. You're the
type who needs to be backed down whenever you display internet muscles
and, frankly, it amuses me to think of you furiously typing while adjusting your
pocket protector and smelling your favorite sabermetrics book. Now then, I've
got a life, so you go ahead and fire away, sunshine

Trent King
........ My "internet muscles" that need to be "backed down" are, let me check my notes here, being against lynching people. Yes. Excellent choice to hijack this topic of all topics to continue your crusade and try to attack with. Keep digging.
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  #144  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:52 PM
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Casey2296 Casey2296 is online now
Is Mudville so bad?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
the rest of you will know not to use the “o” word on net54.
off-center? couldn't agree more, that word should be banned.
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E94 27/30
E94 Crawford color run 4/7
Bender White Cap back run 9/14
Original circulation E98 Master set 120/120

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Last edited by Casey2296; 11-30-2022 at 07:58 PM.
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  #145  
Old 11-30-2022, 09:37 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
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I have a couple John Whettland Items I do not display anymore. Both are 1996 Yankee items.

Last edited by bigfanNY; 12-01-2022 at 10:57 AM.
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  #146  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:22 PM
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perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK STÄ!NBERG
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For me it's just OJ.

I still cringe whenever I see one of his cards or collectibles.
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  #147  
Old 12-01-2022, 03:01 AM
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JimmyC JimmyC is online now
Jim Caravello
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Agree on OJ alsoÖ..tough dilemma as I only own one OJ card and itís part of a set - 1970 Kelloggís Football - just love the set - I am a set guy and have a bunch of non regular issue sets that I really loveÖ.this Ď70 set along with Ď70 Kelloggís baseball set are two of my favorites from that eraÖ.I just make believe the card is not part of the setÖ.
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  #148  
Old 12-01-2022, 04:21 AM
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nwobhm nwobhm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Great thread. I am glad it was moved from water cooler (where I almost never go). Adam, I agree with you 100%. I collect signed entertainment memorabilia (here is my fully signed Led Zeppelin IV album). I will not buy a Michael jackson signature. He molested children. I hate that his songs are still played on the radio and there is a smash Broadway play about him currently selling out night by night. We are so quick to cancel people for much lesser crimes/indiscretions. This piece of shit prayed on children and life goes on in popular culture.
You wonít buy Michael Jackson but Led Zeppelin is ok? You are joking right?
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  #149  
Old 12-01-2022, 06:46 AM
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Vintagedeputy Vintagedeputy is offline
Jim Reynolds
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I collect cards of athletes. I donít care what tobacco ad is on the back of a T206. Itís the player and what they did on the field between the lines that matters to me in my collection.

Pete Rose is a schmo. We all know that OJ killed those people. Mickey Mantle was a drunk who once said that his greatest baseball thrill was getting a blow job under the bleachers. Billy Martin was a raging alcoholic. Curt Schilling may not get into the HOF for his political views, etc.

I donít care.

Pete Rose was one of the greatest players of all time. OJ was a HOF running back. Mantle was a Yankee legend. Billy Martin was one of the greatest managers I ever saw. Schilling was a 3x WS winner with 216 wins under his belt.

I have to work with people every day with the crappiest, oh letís just call them ďpersonal attributesĒ. These are people I certainly wonít be inviting over to my house for a cookoutÖ.but I have to only concern myself with their work. I canít judge them for their political stance, sexual preference or if they cheat on their wives.

I treat sports card collecting the same.
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  #150  
Old 12-01-2022, 06:52 AM
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jingram058 jingram058 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy View Post
I have to work with people every day with the crappiest, oh let’s just call them “personal attributes”. These are people I certainly won’t be inviting over to my house for a cookout….but I have to only concern myself with their work. I can’t judge them for their political stance, sexual preference or if they cheat on their wives.

I treat sports card collecting the same.
I don't know what you do or did for a living, but you would most certainly have been a great Navy officer. As the song lyric goes, "You've got to keep 'em separated.'
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Successful net54 purchases from/trades with:
Tere1071, Bocabirdman, 8thEastVB, GoldenAge50s, IronHorse2130, Kris19, G1911, dacubfan, sflayank, Smanzari, bocca001, eliminator, ejstel, lampertb, rjackson44, Jason19th, Cmvorce

354/598 1962 Topps
27/33 1969 Topps deckle edge
Completed 1953 Bowman color & b/w
*** Raw cards only ***

Last edited by jingram058; 12-01-2022 at 06:54 AM.
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