cards that dont exist but are in the bible

[sflayank]

please prove me wrong if u can anyone?
1941 harry hartman debt of gratitude
1946 sports exchange aaron robinson throwing
1952 num num kennedy with the tab?
1962 kahns perry indians back
1962 kahns purkey no autograph
1962 topps stamp panel white/mcbride
1963 idl pirates bob skinner
1969 kahns ron santo red
1969 fleer 3-d team trophy expos
1962 fleer logos mets colts twins angels these are redbacks
1967 punchouts gibson grote campaneris macmillan b.robinson 100% sure these dont exist
1968 plaks mays aaron peters robinson drysdale 99% sure
sflayank@aol.com

[bcbgcbrcb]

1940 Michigan Sport Service Hal Newhouser?

[Exhibitman]

Are the cards never made cards or existed but are not known at present cards?

[sflayank]

plaks and punchouts were probably never made
the num num kennedy with tab was made..are there any left i dont know
the other stuff i have no idea if they were made if they exist or what
hoping to get proof of their existence here

[sflayank]

well 126 views so far and noone has one of these cards or even a scan of one?

[ALR-bishop]

Larry---my experience is consistent with yours on the 67 Punch Outs, the 68 Plaks, the 62 Fleer red Logos and the 69 3D Fleer Caps. If you are right, I am done with those. I do not do the others from your list.

By the way, I assume you would include the 62 Sievers as an Athletic in the myth category as well

[sflayank]

hi
i didnt even realize sievers athletic stamp was listed in the book
i have my doubts on that one too...I have to ask bob lemke where some of these came from
when i send him new additions i almost always send him a scan
so im curious how these items get in there
larry

[Rob D.]

I've collected Num Nums for years, and though I've never seen a Kennedy with tab, two friends in the hobby who I have tremendous respect for each have told me they've seen one. Based on that, I believe there's at least one (or two) out there.

[Griffins]

Absolutely no way on the '40 Reds Harry Hartman W711-2 Debt of Gratitude card. I believe Bob said it was being dropped from the catalog as well.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by sflayank

hi
when i send him new additions i almost always send him a scan
so im curious how these items get in there
larry

Many of the erroneously listed cards come from old checklists and collectors' recollections that were "canonized" as the checklisting process was under way in pre-computer days. Some resulted from assumptions about the content of certain sets where the assumed qualifier was dropped. Others result from old analyses that have been disproved over time through new research. A great example is the dating on the U.S. Caramel set, which had long been given as a particular year set until collectors started analyzing the card backs and realized that the date had to be wrong. The 1925 Exhibit Champions Babe Ruth was listed as a 1932 issue in conjunction with the World's Fair until analysis of the rest of the set established that it was really a 1925 issue. The 1925-31 PC Back Exhibit set was listed as 1926-29 for a long time until analysis of the player team designations established that some of the cards were 1930-1931 issues and others were very likely 1925 issues. Even T206 was given as a 1910 set for a long time until researchers established a multi-year issue sequence over the various series.

[Zach Wheat]

Agree with others on the 67 Punch Outs

[cardinalcollector]

Larry,

scratch the Expos Plaque for sure. This blog has the best Fleer oddball research I've ever seen: http://fleersticker.blogspot.com/200...y-plaques.html

The 1962 Mets & Colt .45s are out, Angels & Twins still a little foggy, probably don't exist. http://fleersticker.blogspot.com/sea...&max-results=6

Randy

[oaks1912]

The 62 Kahns Purkey (No autograph) exists as do 2 versions of the Jim Perry (Indians / Cleveland Indians backs)

[sflayank]

hi thanks for the kahns info
do you have scans

[sealmark2]

I too have both Perry's but no Purkey as defined.

Mark

[bcbgcbrcb]

It's obviously pre-war but how about the W600 Branch Rickey?

[sflayank]

ok 436 views
punchouts plaks dont exist
harry hartman debt of gratitude doesnt exist
69 fleer expos doesnt exist
62 fleer mets colts dont exist
62 fleer angels twins dont exist even though they appear in 61 set...thats pretty weird
62 kahns purkey no auto and perry indians DO exist
although the people who have them wont show us
the num num kennedy with tab exists probably less than 5
how about the kahns 69 santo RED?
the aaron robinson throwing sports exhange?
63 idl pirates skinner?
and what should be the easiest to prove the 62 stamp panel of white and mcbride

[drdduet]

How does one prove that a card doesn't exist? Wouldn't it just be speculation?

[sflayank]

original post is prove me wrong that they don t exist
so show me a scan of any of those mentioned and youll prove it

[oaks1912]

I agree with Drduet (Post #18). Many truly rare cards have been locked in private collections for decades and simply do not circulate in the hobby. There are several that I question the existence of myself, but until the original source of research can be identified, both Beckett & Krause / FW are right in keeping the listings intact. Additionally, there are hundreds, if not thousands of longtime collectors that do not monitor this board, or other online boards, for a variety of reasons. Not to say that there are not errors in the various checklisting resources. It is a good idea for advanced specialists to compare notes, and isolate the questionable items, as your initial post sought to do, but keeping in mind that there are many 'one of a kind', or 'less than fives' in the hobby. Monitoring larger auctions or Ebay, which only goes back a dozen years will provide incomplete research.... Regarding scans, I do not do scans, but I'll happily provide you with color copies of the above cards (They will be marked as coming from my collection to prevent misuse of the image), provided that you mail a check to the charity of my choice (The Association of Professional Ball Players of America) in the amount of $100. The APBPA helps hundreds of ballplayers annually and at least someone will truly benefit from this query. You can email me privately and we can exchange mailing info.

[sflayank]

you dont say which cards you have color copies of
so how can i make a decision
u can email me sflayank@aol.com

[doug.goodman]

One down...

[ALR-bishop]

Good one Doug

[sflayank]

thats a good one thanks
i thought i saw one years ago on ebay and forgot about it
now i have to find one to finish the set
would you want to sell this one?

[doug.goodman]

Not for sale, because I'm working on the set, too.

Doug

[Rich Klein]

For keeping a card that "does not exist" in a printed tome.

is that if you suspect someone is "stealing" your data; having a false entry in your book or data base can be proved in a court of law. For years it was believe Who's Who in America always printed a few false biographies each year to find out exactly who might be interested in stealing their data.

Regards
Rich

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

For keeping a card that "does not exist" in a printed tome.

is that if you suspect someone is "stealing" your data; having a false entry in your book or data base can be proved in a court of law. For years it was believe Who's Who in America always printed a few false biographies each year to find out exactly who might be interested in stealing their data.

Regards
Rich

That tripped up CPU many years ago, at least initially.

[David Bender]

Map publishers do the same thing - fake streets.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

For keeping a card that "does not exist" in a printed tome.

is that if you suspect someone is "stealing" your data; having a false entry in your book or data base can be proved in a court of law. For years it was believe Who's Who in America always printed a few false biographies each year to find out exactly who might be interested in stealing their data.

Regards
Rich

A wonderful theory except...checklists--which are by definition pure compilations of pre-existing data--cannot be copyrighted. The copyright in a compilation or derivative work extends only to the material contributed by the author of such work, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work, and does not imply any exclusive right in the preexisting material. If you were to publish a wrong checklist and someone used it, you could prove he used it but not get anything else, because you don't own the checklist. Though I guess you would own the mistake...

[Rich Klein]

It wasn't the "Checklist" which brought down CPU -- it was using the exact same pricing structure as it came to Bill Virdon cards -- semi-star every year except for 1963 which was not listed as a semi-star which brought down CPU

My point was that to put in incorrect data can be a trap -- but Adam is right; checklists themselves are public documents but if anything is added that is when the plagarism can take place. If a card is added to a checklist and then someone else steals that card and you are able to prove that you did that as a trap I believe you would win in a court of law but that is a borderline lssue.

Rich

[Exhibitman]

As I recall (and I may be misremembering it) the case wasn't fought--CPU just folded in the face of the demand--so we don't know what might have been the outcome.