1898 Princeton Photo Yearbook - about to hit the chop shop?

[Runscott]

This beautiful 1898 Princeton photo yearbook recently sold on ebay for $488. It contains cardboard pages, each with two albumens mounted - imperial size prints. Pach Brothers also created imperial-size cabinets (real ones) using the same images - these go for good money.

Recently a similar 1897 Yale photo yearbook was 'parted out' - the cardboard photo pages cut in half, each piece sold as if it were a natural cabinet card.

Deplorable.

I sincerely hope that whoever won this 1898 Princeton album does not do the same thing. It would be different if it were one of the Pach albums that was created with real mounted cabinet cards, but the 1897 Yale one wasn't, and either is this 1898 Princeton.

1898 Princeton Photo Yearbook

Here's what one of the board-backed pages of two albumen prints looks like prior to being chopped down and sold as individual cabinet cards:



There should be a limit to what we destroy in order to make a buck.

[gnaz01]

Never saw this one, wish I would have though to ensure keeping it in tact!!

[GaryPassamonte]

I'm with you 100%, Scott.

[thecatspajamas]

I sincerely hope that it stays intact, but every time I see individual pages from old Reach and Spalding guides being sold, I have a little less faith in the rational thinking of collectors these days. So few of these kinds of things have survived to present day, the idea of cutting one up should be universally deplorable. To me, it's akin to using baby panda pelts to make house shoes because sure, synthetic material is soft on your feet, but panda fur is really soft.

On second thought, even that isn't accurate, because you can sometimes get pandas to make new babies. They haven't made this particular yearbook in 115 years, and won't be making any more. Period.

[Runscott]

It almost assuredly will NOT stay intact - I just checked and the winning bidder is the same guy who chopped the Yale book. Perhaps this thread will discourage him from doing the same with the Princeton book.

My bid did not register, but the number I had in mind was based on the value of the book intact. Like Greg, now I'm wishing I had put in a stronger bid, just to save it from destruction.

[prewarsports]

Well since its not hard to see that I am being called out here by Scott (thanks man) I will respond briefly.

Part of what I do is buy old photo albums and separate them out into component parts and sell them. The people who buy photos from me from albums such as "grandmas trip to china" are able to buy particular images and love and appreciate those images and preserve the history of them. I save these albums, research the photos, properly identify them and pass the items along.

Before I get into the album on eBay let me say these are NOT like books and magazines that get "chop shopped". Each individual would order a "standard" book from pach bros but could also customize the books as well. these were made as unique items for specific students with their names engraved on the front. Each page is an albumen cabinet photo (real albumen cabinet photos by the way) with two images glued to a blank cabinet. There are then 2 blank backed cabinet cards that are lightly glued together and tipped into the book with linen. These cabinet photos can easily be separated back to how they were originally produced by the photographer to two blank backed images which can be cut in half to leave two cabinet photos. What is left are two completely original album photos, on their original mounts with the original glue.

Archives, students, museums and all sorts of institutions have been separating these books out for over 100 years. I have bought and sold many on eBay as single images, single pages etc. in the last 4-5 years I have bought maybe 5 of these types of books, and a few have been separated out (most had bad damage to begin with) and others resold intact, and I still have a few. I Personally feel that separating this book out but not destroying a single image (if that is the choice of the owner) provides an opportunity for greater enjoyment of the images that leaving it intact as the same person who wants a track team photo does not want a football photo underneath it etc. I have always left all the class images intact and in the past I have evn donated these to the Universities themselves who were VERY happy to have them.

I was never planning on separating this one out as it appears to one in fine shape but if the original poster wants to put his money where his mouth is and SAVE THIS, from the CHOP SHOP, he can write me a check for the original purchase price plus shipping to his house. Of course he could have just e mailed me privately too, but that would have prevented Network 54 drama what would we all do with ourselves if we didn't have someone pissed off on here every. Few hours right?

If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, offer suggestions or their comments I would always be happy to discuss these topics with anyone. I love antique photography more than anyone on this site and would never "destroy" anything but opinions can differ obviously and I respect any and all opinions on the subject and I am ALWAYS available for e mail conversations and to answer any questions or concerns.

nOTE, I am writing this from an iPad as am away from home so please disregard my DEPLORABLE typing.

Rhys Yeakley

Prewarsports "aka, the deplorable chop shopper of old photo albums"

[gnaz01]

Rhys, I am not sure Scott knew it was you who purchased this, but if he passes on the deal, I would love to take you up on it. FWIW, I didn't know it was you who bought it either

[drc]

It's only Princeton. They don't even have a medical school. Wake me up with its Yale or Harvard.

[GaryPassamonte]

Hi, Rhys. My general feeling is that I like to see something that has historical value kept in tact. The 1859 Williams College album comes to mind. I realize I may be talking about apples and oranges here, though. That said, I am as guilty as the next guy because I collect pieces of history ( CdVs) separated from family albums. I guess I should practice what I preach.

[ksfarmboy]

I'm kind of on both sides of this. The Spalding and Reach items don't bother me so much as something that's much rarer like this album. But like Rhys said it may allow a collector to obtain an item of interest without having to pay a much higher price for the complete album. There was a photograph in that Williams album just mentioned that I would be very interested in. I would even pay a decent price for. Unfortunately there is no way I could afford the whole album. If I owned it would I part it out? No, but if it was parted out it wouldn't keep me from going after the one photo I'm interested in. I guess it's like elephant tusks. If people quit buying the ivory people will quit parting out the elephant.

[Runscott]

I stand completely behind my original post.

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Well since its not hard to see that I am being called out here by Scott (thanks man) I will respond briefly.

Actually, I initially had no idea that you were the winning bidder. I also had no idea that ANYONE had already chopped up one of these books and was selling it on ebay. Then I started searching and found your Yale items. I considered not posting, but I was pissed off that the same thing occurring with Spalding Baseball Guides was now happening with these historically-significant photo albums, and I wanted to know what other photograph collectors thought about your actions. Personally, I don't see as much (perhaps 'any') issue with parting out the albums that are collections of real cabinet photos, but I think the type that you are chopping up are a bit different. Others may disagree with me, but without posting there isn't really any discussion.

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I was never planning on separating this one out as it appears to one in fine shape but if the original poster wants to put his money where his mouth is and SAVE THIS, from the CHOP SHOP, he can write me a check for the original purchase price plus shipping to his house. Of course he could have just e mailed me privately too, but that would have prevented Network 54 drama what would we all do with ourselves if we didn't have someone pissed off on here every. Few hours right?

Now you are just deflecting, which I understand.

I put in a good bid (with real money behind it ), for what I thought the item was worth INTACT. I lost. If I had planned on chopping it up, it would have been worth much more to me, and I would have bid accordingly.

It's great to hear that you plan on re-selling it intact.

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I love antique photography more than anyone on this site and would never "destroy" anything but opinions can differ obviously...

I don't doubt that you have an interest in antique photography - otherwise you would sell things other than photographs.

In retrospect, I do wish I had emailed you instead of posting. But now you know that my opinion wasn't unique, and that bit of information should carry more weight with you.

If it had been me, and I had felt no guilt about what I was doing (or planning to do), I would have just posted a brief response stating that I didn't realize how people felt about this, and that I had no plan to do it in the future. I'm not getting that from your response.