A valuable lesson - eBay fraud + options

[sportscardpete]

I am looking to see if anyone has any bright side to the below situation. This is something, that I was really stupid about, but obviously lessened has been learned. I figured I would share with the rest of you. This is killing me. I obviously will get through this but wanted to partially and vent and maybe hoping that someone here has a ray of light for me on potential options:

I recently messaged someone (who had reputable feedback, more on this later) on eBay about a card he was offering. I wanted to see if he would lower his price on something. He said he would only do this off eBay - countless sports dealers do this, I didn’t think the ask was abnormal.

I sent payment to him through PayPal friends and family (dumb, I know). He didn’t really answer me after that, but after several follow ups he sent item with tracking. I was already on high alert from his spotty responses so I decided
To record myself opening the package. As I opened it I saw a reprint of the card I purchased, not the one we agreed upon. I mentioned it to the seller and he said it must be a mistake maybe I switched cards. I said no, and he said if I send back card he will give me a refund.

My question is - I obviously can’t trust the guy. Should I just bring the evidence of texts and the video to my bank (since I assume PayPal won’t be helpful)? Or should I send the reprint to the guy and hope he refunds? I noticed his feedback had a recent negative from the same exact situation (after I purchased) so obviously this is a rolling scam.

A valuable lesson on trusting non-net54 accounts!

Pete

[ramram]

I’m assuming you have his street address. Send the item back and see what happens. If he jerks you around, let him know that you know a guy that knows a guy....in his hometown.

Rob M

[Jewish-collector]

If he's not too far away, drive over there with a couple of bounty hunters or UFC guys, knock on his front door and say, Sometimes you gotta say "WTF" and take the original card that he was supposed to send you and then dare him to do anything about it.

[KaiserCurt]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

If he's not too far away, drive over there with a couple of bounty hunters or UFC guys, knock on his front door and say, Sometimes you gotta say "WTF" and take the original card that he was supposed to send you and then dare him to do anything about it.

I’m getting OJ Simpson Las Vegas Memorabilia energy here! Lol

[Blunder19]

ship the card back.. with tracking.. if he doesnt refund you after the card shows as delivered then involve the police.

[drcy]

I think there's fair chance you will get a refund. A lot of scammers refund when they're called out on it.

[toledo_mudhen]

Is it possible that he really didn't know it was reprint? I would send back with tracking as suggested. I would think that there's better than 50/50 you get your $ back. Worst case is that you no longer own a basically worthless card -

[Jim65]

Send the card back so you have proof of the return. Then get your Bank/Credit Card Co involved if he doesn't refund.

DON'T pay Friends and Family to ANYONE ever. Deals with good honest sellers can turn bad, why give up your protection?

[bnorth]

This will not be popular.

These type of posts are fricken insane. The OP started out by screwing eBay, then he screwed PayPal. Now he is acting like a spoiled child because he got screwed.

OP put on your big boy panties and take the loss as a learning experience on how not to try to screw others, because nothing's better than a scammer getting scammed.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Send the card back so you have proof of the return. Then get your Bank/Credit Card Co involved if he doesn't refund.

DON'T pay Friends and Family to ANYONE ever. Deals with good honest sellers can turn bad, why give up your protection?

This is the way to go... if doesn't work then send the friends to his house!

[swarmee]

Well, if he's doing this, letting the world know his name, eBay account, and business address is completely reasonable to protect the rest of buyers. And if a scammer thread is started against him, he's more likely to refund you. How much money are we talking here? Is it enough to report him to his local police?

Despite the virus not hitting most hard financially, there are a subset of people who are hurting and willing to try to scam in order to pay off debts. Friends and family is like making a loan to a family member: might work some of the time, but consider it a charitable donation that you don't expect to get back.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This will not be popular.

These type of posts are fricken insane. The OP started out by screwing eBay, then he screwed PayPal. Now he is acting like a spoiled child because he got screwed.

OP put on your big boy panties and take the loss as a learning experience on how not to try to screw others, because nothing's better than a scammer getting scammed.

+1

[Rhotchkiss]

eBay handle of seller?

So the rest of us don’t get burned by same guy.... Thanks

[sportscardpete]

Appreciate everyone's feedback: kmr_sports

[Buythatcard]

The OP stated that this is valuable lesson on trusting non net54 transactions. Let's be clear this is also a non eBay transaction.
I hate when people always blame eBay for actions of their own.

If you messaged him thru eBay, you should know that it's strictly against eBay policies to do a deal off the radar using their messaging system. If you contacted him outside of eBay, then fine.

Once you go that route, both you and the seller are pretty much on their own.

I don't think any outside sources will help you in this case. Your best bet is to try and work it out with the seller. But, if he has done this in the past, then he will do it again.

No fault of eBay in this situation.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This will not be popular.

These type of posts are fricken insane. The OP started out by screwing eBay, then he screwed PayPal. Now he is acting like a spoiled child because he got screwed.

OP put on your big boy panties and take the loss as a learning experience on how not to try to screw others, because nothing's better than a scammer getting scammed.

You don’t accept PPFF? Your posts always say “net to me” if so that’s very noble of you.

I guess most people here would be considered scammers in your book.

[chriskim]

Did u buy a Jordan RC and turned out to be a reprint? Any high quality but ungraded Jordan RC is a big no-no.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

You don’t accept PPFF? Your posts always say “net to me” if so that’s very noble of you.

I guess most people here would be considered scammers in your book.

I rarely use PayPal. What does "net to me" have to do with anything?

Not most but WAY WAY more than you think there are. I have had way more problems on here than I have ever had on eBay with way less transactions here.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This will not be popular.

These type of posts are fricken insane. The OP started out by screwing eBay, then he screwed PayPal. Now he is acting like a spoiled child because he got screwed.

OP put on your big boy panties and take the loss as a learning experience on how not to try to screw others, because nothing's better than a scammer getting scammed.

I agree with Ben.

[Leon]

Since you are complaining about doing stuff here. Don't ever use the BST again. This isn't a request. If you use it you will no longer be here at all. See, I just solved a problem for you. A thank you should be in order.

Originally Posted by bnorth

I rarely use PayPal. What does "net to me" have to do with anything?

Not most but WAY WAY more than you think there are. I have had way more problems on here than I have ever had on eBay with way less transactions here.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Since you are complaining about doing stuff here. Don't ever use the BST again. This isn't a request. If you use it you will no longer be here at all. See, I just solved a problem for you. A thank you should be in order.

Is that all sections of the BST area because I really wanted to bid on the auction that helps out the dogs?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This will not be popular.

These type of posts are fricken insane. The OP started out by screwing eBay, then he screwed PayPal. Now he is acting like a spoiled child because he got screwed.

OP put on your big boy panties and take the loss as a learning experience on how not to try to screw others, because nothing's better than a scammer getting scammed.

Agree. Way too many people justify going outside of Ebay or paying F&F to avoid fees that Ebay and PayPal rightfully deserve. Its stealing, period.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I rarely use PayPal. What does "net to me" have to do with anything?

Not most but WAY WAY more than you think there are. I have had way more problems on here than I have ever had on eBay with way less transactions here.

$45 delivered net to me. PayPal, Cash, or Check are OK.

Very cool Mickey Mantle Bill Bruton Miscut.

You didn’t really answer the question. You accept PayPal and say “net to me”. So is the buyer being asked to only pay GS if using PayPal and tack on extra or if they decide to pay FF is that ok?

I actually get your original point but then I was curious if you refuse to take PPFF. Your sales threads don’t suggest that but maybe you only accept GS. If so I said that’s noble of you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Is that all sections of the BST area because I really wanted to bid on the auction that helps out the dogs?

Nope, BST is off limits for you. I will help the doggies in your place. This way you can never bitch about how messed up this place is pertaining to the BST section *for anything in the future".

And as for the OP situation. They might have taken it off ebay but I still think it's stealing on the other guys part so is wrong. (if this doesn't get rectified). We each have our own opinion of it.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

$45 delivered net to me. PayPal, Cash, or Check are OK.

Very cool Mickey Mantle Bill Bruton Miscut.

You didn’t really answer the question. You accept PayPal and say “net to me”. So is the buyer being asked to only pay GS if using PayPal and tack on extra or if they decide to pay FF is that ok?

I actually get your original point but then I was curious if you refuse to take PPFF. Your sales threads don’t suggest that but maybe you only accept GS. If so I said that’s noble of you.

"net to me" means the buyer has a choice to pay F&F or add extra for the fees.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by Jim65

"net to me" means the buyer has a choice to pay F&F or add extra for the fees.

Exactly - meaning if Bnorth accepts PPFF he is scamming PayPal just like he accused the OP of doing. That is what I was curious about. If he refuses to accept PPFF then I think his opinion holds a lot more weight.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Appreciate everyone's feedback: kmr_sports

Thanks Pete. I am sorry you are dealing with this. I have done several off-ebay deals and countless BST deals here on Net54, using PayPal FF, and I get nervous every time. So far so good, as I find people here are generally honest (they may some dumb stuff) and transactions via BST work. I would return the reprint and hope for the refund.

Perhaps the silver lining is no one else here will get burnt by this guy and his business will be hurt bc people stop dealing with him.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Exactly - meaning if Bnorth accepts PPFF he is scamming PayPal just like he accused the OP of doing. That is what I was curious about. If he refuses to accept PPFF then I think his opinion holds a lot more weight.

I have no reason to lie, yes I do accept PayPal friends and family from people I have done transactions with before. Same goes with the very few times I have paid using it. I do not use it with some random person I have no idea who they really are.

Just to put it out there. If anybody has EVER had even a small problem with ANY transaction I have EVER made on here PLEASE post it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have no reason to lie, yes I do accept PayPal friends and family from people I have done transactions with before. Same goes with the very few times I have paid using it. I do not use it with some random person I have no idea who they really are.

Just to put it out there. If anybody has EVER had even a small problem with ANY transaction I have EVER made on here PLEASE post it.

So scamming PP is ok to you (you take FF for goods) but doing something off of ebay (skirting a fee and/or tax) isn't ok? Got it. Your point of view is a bit contradictory, no?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Exactly - meaning if Bnorth accepts PPFF he is scamming PayPal just like he accused the OP of doing. That is what I was curious about. If he refuses to accept PPFF then I think his opinion holds a lot more weight.

Point taken.

Some boards have a rule against asking for PayPal F&F, I think its a good rule that protects people.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Point taken.

Some boards have a rule against asking for PayPal F&F, I think its a good rule that protects people.

No offense intended at all but I think rules suck.

[Smanzari]

Hopefully you at least used a Credit Card with PPFF- if so call your Card Provider (always do this with shady deals as it gives you a little protection)

Also - I'd fill out a mail-fraud report and contact his local police, depending on his response.

https://www.uspis.gov/report/

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Jim65

"net to me" means the buyer has a choice to pay F&F or add extra for the fees.

That's the way I take it....I add in my auctions add 3% for Good and Services. I am the same way. If I have never had any dealings with someone on here, I like the added protection. If I have done business with someone before I don't mind sending F/F. We are all adults here.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

eBay handle of seller?

So the rest of us don’t get burned by same guy.... Thanks

And the ebay handle of buyer.....

[bobbyw8469]

I have seen gas stations charge more if you use a credit card as opposed to paying cash. I guess it's the same thing??

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I rarely use PayPal. What does "net to me" have to do with anything?

Not most but WAY WAY more than you think there are. I have had way more problems on here than I have ever had on eBay with way less transactions here.

I never use paypal, but prefer to pay by check when using BST here. I always thought that checks were like cash and to send a bad one would be illegal

Sellers cash it and then send the card a day or 2 after. Some even send the card before depositing the check. End of story. They know where to bash me if the check bounces. Only one idiot wanted to hold my 5K in checks for 10 business days after the fact and I never bought from him again. You know who you are Desert Ice Sports. "Net to me" means that the seller is a legal moron, IMHO and I just pass.

[hcv123]

Re: OP -
1) I looked up tmr_sports on Ebay and nothing came up? Could you double check and respond with their Ebay name?
2) You said he had "reputable feedback" and "more on that later" but did not elaborate - please do.
3) I would definitely send the card back - the only thing more you have to potentially lose is return shipping with the possibility of getting a refund doing so - as another member asked and relevant to this opinion is the value of the card - The closer the value of the card comes to the cost of return shipping, the less of a good idea it would be to return. Assuming the cost of shipping is way less than the $$ you sent, then definitely return it
4) Again related to the value of the card - if it was hundreds or more - likely worth a shot to involve the police - if under $100 - probably wiser to just take your lumps and move on.
5) I use PPFF as a buyer and seller regularly - WITH awareness. As mentioned by someone else - as a buyer I will only send FF if I have done business with or know the person or if the amount is low enough and I feel comfortable "risking it" (knowing it is a risk). I would NOT use Ebay feedback as the sole source of "feedback" in deciding to send ff. I have done thousands of transactions over 22 years on and off Ebay and on Net 54 and outside of a really messed up situation in the early days of Paypal and no buyer protection where I got screwed out of a lot of money by Paypal, all of my buying and selling transactions have been smooth.

[Jobu]

Send it back requiring a direct signature so you know who got it (or at least have a better chance of knowing). Tracking only gives less proof.

There are a number of threads about this type of thing. The short version is that sometimes you can convince Paypal to take your money back, but my impression is that it always takes a lot of effort and is not always successful.

[T206.org]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Re: OP -
1) I looked up tmr_sports on Ebay and nothing came up? Could you double check and respond with their Ebay name?
2) You said he had "reputable feedback" and "more on that later" but did not elaborate - please do.

He said kmr_sports:
https://www.ebay.com/usr/kmr_sports

[buymycards]

Good feedback? He has 23 feedbacks as a seller. 2 neutrals and 2 negatives.

[charlietheexterminator]

If you paid ppff with PayPal funds, PayPal can not help you. If you used a credit card to pay through PayPal, contact your credit card company and post a complaint and stop payment. Reporting him to eBay is useless.

After that, now you can send the card back with tracking and keep your fingers crossed. Knowing me, I would blow up his email and eBay messages demanding a refund. Mention the 👮 Police in every message.

[Jcosta19]

My 2 cents probably don't mean much but I dont understand when people are saying things like the OP is cheating ebay and paypal.

He reached out for a better price and the seller only would budge off ebay. That has nothing to do with the OP.

The seller is clearly cheating or short changing ebay and breaking their policies, but the OP has no obligation to stick with ebay when the card is not available on ebay at a price that he is willing to pay.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Rascal1010]

My question is if he didn't buy the card on Ebay why does he say Ebay fraud in his post title? Shouldn't the title be A Valuable Lesson - Private Sale Fraud - Options?

[KaiserCurt]

Originally Posted by Rascal1010

My question is if he didn't buy the card on Ebay why does he say Ebay fraud in his post title? Shouldn't the title be A Valuable Lesson - Private Sale Fraud - Options?

+1

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Leon

So scamming PP is ok to you (you take FF for goods) but doing something off of ebay (skirting a fee and/or tax) isn't ok? Got it. Your point of view is a bit contradictory, no?

These aren't remotely close to the same thing. Paypal doesn't make its money off fees. When they started out, everything was free and they said their profit came from holding people's money. With the increase of rewards credit cards, credit card fees became an increasing expense and so they moved to collecting that fee back from the user. When you pay with paypal friends and family, you have to pay from your bank account, which costs paypal nothing, or the sender pays 2.9% + .30. .30 is the swipe fee which goes to the credit card company. The % is negotiated between paypal and the CC processor. I don't know what if paypal pays that, but they do pay most of it on rewards credit cards. I have a CC that gives me 3% back on paypal, so if I pay with F&F and add 3%, it is a wash. If I pay with goods it is still a wash. Paypal is out very little if anything and on F&F they don't have to worry about fraud. If Paypal does away with F&F, I could care less, I am never paying the fee. It is Paypal charging me 3% to cover the charge from the CC company for the CC company giving me 3% for using their CC.

Ebay is a completely different matter. They make their money off final value fees. Most people are getting free listings, getting to advertise their cards for free, doing a deal off ebay is costing them all of the income from you using their platform. For the seller, they should price their item with the fees built in. I pay 9% (some pay less) Ebay and 3% Paypal. The buyer should be getting 1% Ebay bucks + 5% CC rewards or 6% off at a minimum. By doing a little work and timing, the buyer should be able to recoup the 12% plus more from ebay bucks, CC rewards, ebates, store rewards, etc. So why would anyone do a deal off ebay and assume all the risk and deny ebay income for using their platform?

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by rats60

These aren't remotely close to the same thing. Paypal doesn't make its money off fees. When they started out, everything was free and they said their profit came from holding people's money. With the increase of rewards credit cards, credit card fees became an increasing expense and so they moved to collecting that fee back from the user. When you pay with paypal friends and family, you have to pay from your bank account, which costs paypal nothing, or the sender pays 2.9% + .30. .30 is the swipe fee which goes to the credit card company. The % is negotiated between paypal and the CC processor. I don't know what if paypal pays that, but they do pay most of it on rewards credit cards. I have a CC that gives me 3% back on paypal, so if I pay with F&F and add 3%, it is a wash. If I pay with goods it is still a wash. Paypal is out very little if anything and on F&F they don't have to worry about fraud. If Paypal does away with F&F, I could care less, I am never paying the fee. It is Paypal charging me 3% to cover the charge from the CC company for the CC company giving me 3% for using their CC.

Ebay is a completely different matter. They make their money off final value fees. Most people are getting free listings, getting to advertise their cards for free, doing a deal off ebay is costing them all of the income from you using their platform. For the seller, they should price their item with the fees built in. I pay 9% (some pay less) Ebay and 3% Paypal. The buyer should be getting 1% Ebay bucks + 5% CC rewards or 6% off at a minimum. By doing a little work and timing, the buyer should be able to recoup the 12% plus more from ebay bucks, CC rewards, ebates, store rewards, etc. So why would anyone do a deal off ebay and assume all the risk and deny ebay income for using their platform?

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn’t allow it anymore. Why is that?

I have no idea of what you say is true but of course PayPal makes money off of fees. It may not be their main source of income but nonetheless they make money.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn’t allow it anymore. Why is that?

I have no idea of what you say is true but of course PayPal makes money off of fees. It may not be their main source of income but nonetheless they make money.

I have no idea about PayPal, but I am sure Zelle or Venmo would be glad to take over as payment processors.

[MULLINS5]

After rereading it, I see the OP asked the seller to lower the price, and then the seller requested moving it off eBay and the PayPal FF payment. You didn't do anything wrong, just got caught in a potential scam. Hope it turns out OK for you, lesson learned.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This will not be popular.

These type of posts are fricken insane. The OP started out by screwing eBay, then he screwed PayPal. Now he is acting like a spoiled child because he got screwed.

OP put on your big boy panties and take the loss as a learning experience on how not to try to screw others, because nothing's better than a scammer getting scammed.

I wouldn't have phrased it so harshly, but your point has merit.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Explain this -

My buddy runs an annual NCAA basketball pool at $5 each with around 200 people. For a couple years everyone would pay friends and family. Then PayPal caught on and wouldn’t allow it anymore. Why is that?

I have no idea of what you say is true but of course PayPal makes money off of fees. It may not be their main source of income but nonetheless they make money.

Are you referring to illegal gambling pools?