1917 Collins-McCarthy "Relative" Checklists - Weil Baking/Standard Biscuit/Bos Store

[KMayUSA6060]

According to prewarcards.com, the checklists for the 1917 sets Collins McCarthy (E135), Weil Baking (D328), and Boston Store (H801-8) are exactly the same from what I can tell. However, I am unable to find a checklist for the 1917 Standard Biscuit set (D350-2).

Is it simply an assumption that this set mirrors the checklists of the aforementioned 1917 sets? Or is there confirmation?

I PC Grover Hartley, and I know there is at least one Weil Baking Co. example in existence (SGC graded I believe), but have not seen anything to confirm any known examples of him in the Standard Biscuit set. Trading Card Database lists Standard Biscuit on his checklist, but there is no picture and the PSA/SGC pop reports don't show any graded examples.

Since every post must have a card, here is my Hartley PC (I need to update the group pic).

[mrreality68]

Some good insights

Very nice cards and ad backs

[nolemmings]

Kyle, the 1917 Standard Biscuit set does in fact mirror E135 and the other sets you cited. I have not confirmed the existence of Hartley, but it would be part of the set. FWIW, if I remember correctly, the set is not identified in the ACC, and the other Standard Biscuit sets are identified differently than what is now commonly accepted.

Please let us know if you find a Hartley SB. There is also presumably one more ad back for that card-- the scarce Merchant's Bakery from Norfolk VA. Only a few examples from the set have been found, but they match up with the other sets from 1917. BTW, nice blank back (Mendelsohn)--those are not commonly found either.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Kyle, the 1917 Standard Biscuit set does in fact mirror E135 and the other sets you cited. I have not confirmed the existence of Hartley, but it would be part of the set. FWIW, if I remember correctly, the set is not identified in the ACC, and the other Standard Biscuit sets are identified differently than what is now commonly accepted.

Please let us know if you find a Hartley SB. There is also presumably one more ad back for that card-- the scarce Merchant's Bakery from Norfolk VA. Only a few examples from the set have been found, but they match up with the other sets from 1917.

Lovely. Exactly what I wanted to hear haha. Thank you for confirming that Hartley should indeed have a Standard Biscuit example. I will be sure to let you know if I find one. I'm still hoping to find the second ever Weil Baking Hartley, let alone the first ever Standard Biscuit!

Originally Posted by nolemmings

BTW, nice blank back (Mendelsohn)--those are not commonly found either.

Is the Blank Back mislabeled, or am I misunderstanding what a Mendelsohn is?

[Prince Hal]

So now I am curious, why Grover Hartley?

[nolemmings]

Well, it's not mislabeled per se, as it was only recently confirmed that Felix Mendelsohn was responsible for creating these sets, and sold blank backs directly to those who responded to his ad in (at least) the Sporting News. By that time it had already been the practice of the grading companies and others in the hobby to call them blank-back E135s. It may be less confusing to just leave well enough alone, since Mendelsohn is already the name associated with M101-6 and in some instances m101-5. He also is the likely creator of this rare beauty from circa 1915, of which only three are confirmed (Wajo and Matty the others):

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Prince Hal

So now I am curious, why Grover Hartley?

My grandpa played minor league baseball for the Findlay Oilers (part of the St. Louis Browns system) in the Ohio State League in 1940. My great uncle played for the team in 1939 as well. Both years, the manager of the team was Grover Hartley.

Don May was my grandpa. Here are two links for his Baseball Reference pages.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=170780ce
https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=may---001don

Glenn "Red" May was his brother (my great uncle). Here are his Baseball Reference pages.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=99f950bb
https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=may---001gle

I have the baseball from the last game my grandpa pitched in the minors in 1940. Eventually, I'm going to make a display with his contract, my Hartley PC, his team photo, his individual photo, and his baseball.

I would also like to have player runs of each MLB player my grandpa and great uncle played with/against. Del Wilber and Gene Woodling are the two that come to mind from the limited research I've done on this potential collection idea.

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Well, it's not mislabeled per se, as it was only recently confirmed that Felix Mendelsohn was responsible for creating these sets, and sold blank backs directly to those who responded to his ad in (at least) the Sporting News. By that time it had already been the practice of the grading companies and others in the hobby to call them blank-back E135s. It may be less confusing to just leave well enough alone, since Mendelsohn is already the name associated with M101-6 and in some instances m101-5. He also is the likely creator of this rare beauty from circa 1915, of which only three are confirmed (Wajo and Matty the others):

Incredible information. Thank you for sharing. So these are all technically 1917 Felix Mendelsohns (insert back name here)? What should the technical classification/set designation name be? Should it still be E135/D328/D350-2/H801-8?

Also, what is the set designation name for the Merchant's Bakery, if there is one?

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

. . .
Incredible information. Thank you for sharing. So these are all technically 1917 Felix Mendelsohns (insert back name here)? What should the technical classification/set designation name be? Should it still be E135/D328/D350-2/H801-8?

Also, what is the set designation name for the Merchant's Bakery, if there is one?

Yes, they are all technically Felix Mendelsohn cards, but I would probably leave the designations alone. Maybe change the blank backs to an "M", since he was a publisher generally and it is his initial I think M132 may be available. M-Unc is probably confusing, as more than one set could make claim to that (my Schalk card above, for example).

Merchants Bakery does not have a designation in the ACC.

[JLange]

I am happy to have this 1970s Jim Rowe PC of Grover Hartley for my Cleveland Baseball collection, but still looking for a career-contemporary card of him from his playing days with Cleveland (1929-30). Know of anything?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by JLange

I am happy to have this 1970s Jim Rowe PC of Grover Hartley for my Cleveland Baseball collection, but still looking for a career-contemporary card of him from his playing days with Cleveland (1929-30). Know of anything?

That is very cool! I am not aware of any Grover Hartley cards after the aforementioned 1917 sets. Both Trading Card Database and PSA show the 1917 sets as his last cards. I'm sure there are photos out there, but I don't believe there were any team issued photo sets, so it would all be individualized if you find anything.

[danf19]

Thanks for the information and very interesting. I am intrigue by both the Collins and McCarthy and Weil bakery sets so fond it all very interesting !
Dan