Vintage Undervalued Roookies

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

I would say the 51 bowman mantle is under valued as compared to the jump the 52topps counter part has recognized. I think the 51 bowman mantle rookie will be on its way up on the near future. $10k for a psa 1 type jump.

A PSA 1 51 Bowman Mantle just sold for over $11K in the last Clean Sweep Auction.

[Blunder19]

Sweet baby Jesus.

[Illustrious]

Originally Posted by Great Winfield

There are two that stand out to me in a relative sense (making no judgement on whether the overall valuation "tide" is too high or not):

1. 1965 Topps Joe Morgan - There are only 80 PSA 9's and 2 10's. Sure, it is a two-player card, but the 9 at ~$2500 is almost certainly among the very cheapest high-grade rookie cards for any top 20 all-time player.

2. 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams - There are only 88 PSA 8's, 1 8.5, 12 9's and 1 10. Given the soaring prices of other top players, how is the PSA 8 not a six-figure card?? A mythical figure and American hero. His Baseballreference.com page is pure stats porn. Almost 5 prime years lost to military service. Most folks likely know about him not winning MVP in either of his triple crown seasons (not to mention the 1941 0.406 avg season) - but how about posting a 190 OPS+ in his final age-41 season, better than Joe D's BEST ever such figure. Pretty good final AB too!

One of the first things I did last Spring when I saw the sports card market was about go into a boom period, was look at the vintage cards I had on my want list and pick 1 or 2 that I knew would probably explode if I didn't get them asap. For me, the number one card I thought would get out of my reach if I didn't make a move was the '39 Play Ball Ted Williams RC, and I was fortunate enough to be able to win a SGC 1 for around $1200. The number two card I on my list, which technically is not a RC, was the '52 Topps Willie Mays, which I bought from Dean's at a inflated price at the time, but in hindsight was quite a deal.

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Illustrious

One of the first things I did last Spring when I saw the sports card market was about go into a boom period, was look at the vintage cards I had on my want list and pick 1 or 2 that I knew would probably explode if I didn't get them asap.

Congratulations on being able to forecast this boom period just before it happened. You probably wish you had bought more.

[Illustrious]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Congratulations on being able to forecast this boom period just before it happened. You probably wish you had bought more.

Well I wouldn't say I forecast it before it happened, I just saw the frenzy in modern cards happening, especially in basketball with the hype from the Last Dance documentary pushing things up, and I knew it would eventually reach the vintage market. Of course I wish I could have bought more vintage cards then, but I was pushing it as-is with what I could afford, and I was more concerned with just having the cards in my collection before I was priced out, over buying multiples for future resale.

[dio]

Congrat. I feel the same way. Vintage has been undervalued for so so long. We just starting to pick up a little and ppl are already claiming we're in a big bubble.

[troutbum97]

Originally Posted by jayshum

A PSA 1 51 Bowman Mantle just sold for over $11K in the last Clean Sweep Auction.

.... another at $10,800 on eBay - ended 5 mins ago.
My bid came in 4th place



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman...torefresh=true

[dio]

Originally Posted by troutbum97

.... another at $10,800 on eBay - ended 5 mins ago.
My bid came in 4th place



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman...torefresh=true

There's a sgc4 52 topps just ended not long ago for 50k by the same seller. I think buyer gets a good deal. Horrible picture so yellowish and scratch up holder. Seller should do a little bit of work before selling or leave to professional. At least reholder it and take some decent picture and don't set it to end in the early morning.

[troutbum97]

Originally Posted by dio

There's a sgc4 52 topps just ended not long ago for 50k by the same seller. I think buyer gets a good deal. Horrible picture so yellowish and scratch up holder. Seller should do a little bit of work before selling or leave to professional. At least reholder it and take some decent picture and don't set it to end in the early morning.

No shit. Great point.
Seller is lucky these cards sell themselves in this feeding frenzy.

[h2oya311]

So I’ve been selling a few of my 1950s Topps rookies to take some chips off the table. Might never get some of these back if prices continue to rise. The number of people who have reached out to me post sale on some of these cards shows me that there is still room for growth.

Anyway, can anyone explain the background of the 1951 Bowman Mays? Is that a sheet trying to hide the background, which appears to be a Midwestern barn?

Seriously, what the heck is it? A green barn? Here’s the one I sold:

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

So I’ve been selling a few of my 1950s Topps rookies to take some chips off the table. Might never get some of these back if prices continue to rise. The number of people who have reached out to me post sale on some of these cards shows me that there is still room for growth.

Anyway, can anyone explain the background of the 1951 Bowman Mays? Is that a sheet trying to hide the background, which appears to be a Midwestern barn?

Seriously, what the heck is it? A green barn? Here’s the one I sold:

Haha, I've always wondered the same thing. The actual picture was sold in an auction (I think Lelands) several years ago and it's in a stadium. Not sure what the artist was going for here but I always thought it was supposed to be a spring training shot and that odd looking tarp being used as a bp backstop off the field.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

So I’ve been selling a few of my 1950s Topps rookies to take some chips off the table. Might never get some of these back if prices continue to rise. The number of people who have reached out to me post sale on some of these cards shows me that there is still room for growth.

Anyway, can anyone explain the background of the 1951 Bowman Mays? Is that a sheet trying to hide the background, which appears to be a Midwestern barn?

Seriously, what the heck is it? A green barn? Here’s the one I sold:

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top, then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

[Chris Counts]

If the knuckleheads who decide who gets a plaque in Cooperstown ever get a freakin' clue, Minnie Minoso rookies will go up. But the whole rookie thing has never made much since to me.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

And you successfully sent everyone scurrying off to wikipedia to look up the "golden ratio," and we all wound up reading about the Ace of Base album. Well done.

[Exhibitman]

The Foxx RCs are good deals even now. Foxx finished his 20-year career with 534 home runs, 1,922 runs batted in, 1,751 runs scored, 2,646 hits, 458 doubles, 125 triples, 1,452 bases on balls and a .325 batting average. His 12 consecutive seasons with 30 or more home runs was a major league record until it was broken by Barry (cheater) Bonds in 2004. At the end of his career, his 534 home runs placed him second only to Ruth on the all-time list, and first among right-handed hitters. He retained these positions until Willie Mays passed Foxx for second place in 1966.

In the post-war era I think many of the regionals other than Mantle are underpriced right now. The 1954 Johnson's Aaron has already been mentioned.

Pre-rookies other than DiMaggio are often relatively cheap. Look at the many Zeenuts HOFers.

[jbhofmann]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

Most visually stunning card in the hobby. The colors are tremendous.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

LOL, I have a few Canadian friends who I joke with about Rush vs Triumph. Basically saying you can have Triumph, you have to share Rush.

Geddy Lee is a member here on Net54 lol

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by jbhofmann

Most visually stunning card in the hobby. The colors are tremendous.

It's interesting that the 51 bowman set hit all the marks on a lot of cards in that set. The Mantle runs a close second behind Mays for perfect balance and beauty. But there's also Spahn, Williams, Snider, Campy, Rizzuto, and Doby to name a few. They missed the mark on Feller & Berra though, their 1950 cards are perfect, in 51 they went to head shots. The elephant in the room though is how much better that set would have been with a 51 Robinson and Paige but that's just fantasy talk.

Now let's talk Topps. 52 Mantle, great design. 52 Mays? Horrible. If you've ever seen the photo that card was based on it's a design nightmare. Dark subject on a dark background and no flow. 53 Mantle? Even better design than 52. Mays? He looks like my 13 year old son on little league picture day. Shameful.

Topps for the most part had no idea what they were doing when it came to the nuance of black skin from 1952 thru 1956. They got Aaron right for the most part but if you look at their Mays and Clemente cards they printed their skin color way too dark. Missed opportunity in my opinion.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top, then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

Thank you Phil. That is one of the best explanations of the artistry of a card (any card) of all time! Thank you for that. Are there other cards you’ve studied that would receive the same (or greater) reverence from you?

I’m blown away by your thorough response. I don’t know why I hadn’t noticed the background before. I always loved the look of the card, but didn’t know why. I guess the artist did his job!!! And Mays did his!!

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Unfortunately not a rookie, but this is in our current auction:

I’m not a fan but Pete Rose is super tough to find with good eye appeal and inexpensive for being all time hits leader. I can also see the Speaker in that same category. Bench I agree also. Mays certainly was I had bought his true rc at 4500 and sold for 18500 in less than 6 months owning it. Finally getting the respect it deserves.

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

It's interesting that the 51 bowman set hit all the marks on a lot of cards in that set. The Mantle runs a close second behind Mays for perfect balance and beauty. But there's also Spahn, Williams, Snider, Campy, Rizzuto, and Doby to name a few. They missed the mark on Feller & Berra though, their 1950 cards are perfect, in 51 they went to head shots. The elephant in the room though is how much better that set would have been with a 51 Robinson and Paige but that's just fantasy talk.

Now let's talk Topps. 52 Mantle, great design. 52 Mays? Horrible. If you've ever seen the photo that card was based on it's a design nightmare. Dark subject on a dark background and no flow. 53 Mantle? Even better design than 52. Mays? He looks like my 13 year old son on little league picture day. Shameful.

Topps for the most part had no idea what they were doing when it came to the nuance of black skin from 1952 thru 1956. They got Aaron right for the most part but if you look at their Mays and Clemente cards they printed their skin color way too dark. Missed opportunity in my opinion.

I've branched out from rookie cards (for obvious financial reasons) and started picking up visually appealing early cards of stars. Between the 1951 and 1953 set, Bowman has the best looking cards in the hobby (minus the bizarre 1951 Paul Richards). Topps doesn't make a nice Mays card until 1954. IMO Bowman doesn't get anywhere near the hobby love it should for what they produced.

[h2oya311]

Interesting that you mentioned Paul Richards. I’ve found that his 1950s JD McCarthy postcard doesn’t conform to the typical look of other JD McCarthy postcards. Most notably, it’s the only horizontal one I’ve seen for an individual player. All other single-player postcards are oriented vertically. I wonder if there is something further that could be explored here with respect to this particular player... maybe he wanted to “be different”.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Geddy Lee is a member here on Net54 lol

Love Rush!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Geddy Lee is a member here on Net54 lol

WHAT? That's awesome!

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I've always preferred this Ted Williams card over all others.

+1.IMO it's one of the most beautiful cards produced.

[Jcfowler6]

Yogi has to be in the conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[itjclarke]

These guys too... wish I had nicer examples.

[packs]

From the other thread on the pre-1980 side, I agree with the thought on Jackie's true rookie card. The significance of Robinson's career can't be overstated and I think the same would be true for the first card every issued of him from a set devoted to him.

The 75th anniversary is just around the corner too.

[tkd]

I still think all Hornsby cards are undervalued.

[bobbyw8469]

Some of those that people are naming are not really that cheap anymore. Bob Gibson and Frank Robinson USED to be extremely affordable. Not anymore. I think you have to look OUTSIDE of baseball now. Elway and Marino seem cheap. Some of those guys.

[vansaad]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I feel like BW is one of the reasons the '47 Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons haven't seen the increases his Leaf has. However does seem his Bond Bread portrait and rounded corner rookies are picking up steam of late.

It's a bit of an unknown if the Bond Bread portraits are keeping up with the other Jackie iconic cards ('48 Leaf, '49 Bowman & '52 Topps), but my guess is that a mid to high grade example would bring record prices if brought to market right now. The total pop is 10-20% of those other cards, so there are much fewer sales comps over the last few months since prices exploded. Two PSA 6's sold in August 2020 for $15k and $19k, and another PSA 6 sold in January for $30k, so it had begun to take off like the others. The SGC 8.5 sold last August for $35k. A PSA 7 sold for $32k in early December. Based on the recent surge in prices for Jackie, I think anything higher than a PSA 5 would probably set a record now.