Authenicators not selling?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Since this has been such a bone of contention lately, can anyone name any authenticators in game used equipment that have not and do sell items that they authenticate?

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: vikes066

Jay,

With all due respect the more important question goes a little further:

How many authenticators who do sell their own self-authenticated items, keep their ownership secret from those who would or could possibly bid on the item?

Full disclosure prevents the later issues.

V066

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Posted By: david

i think most authenticators are in fact dealers who do their own authenticatiing and stand behind what they sell as such. i think authenticating what you sell and authenticating what you sell under the guise of an impartial third party is the real issue

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Posted By: Aaron

Hey, Vikes (I mean Troll).

Actually, after the last couple of days, I think the most important questions is how many authenticators obtain your contact information without your permission.

This is actually pretty serious. Since the only hobby people that have my contact info are auction houses, one of them betrayed our trust and gave my contact info to Troy without my permission.

I know all of us are worried about account hijacking on E-Bay. Whose to say if an auction house has a security leak (or lack of ethics) that they would give out my contact info without my permission, they would then give out all my (or your) account info without my permission (including my password).

I'd really like to know how Troy obtained my contact info without my permission and from which auction house, so I can close my account there.

Too bad Troy won't tell me how he obtained my contact info without my permission. jay, do you think you could ask him? I bet he'd tell you. (Seriously.)

Oh, and he acts as a dealer too, jay, to answer your question.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Come on, the 2 guys that expected to provide answers to this question provide rhetoric instead. Guess they don't know any authenticators that don't sell the items they authenticate.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Aaron

Hmn, I thought I asked an honest question of someone on the board who was in a position to help.

BTW, strictly in the world of game-used sports equipment, Dave Grob is an example of someone who authenticates, but does not sell. He is currently considering joining SCDA.

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Posted By: vikes066

Jay,

Respectfully there is no rhetoric. I guess we must agree to disagree on interpretation.

The excuse that "everybody does it" doesn't hold any water.

Do you remember when we were all little kids and we did something wrong, our youthful excuse to our parents after we got into trouble was .."well little Johnny did it too.." How did our parents respond?

Mine always said something to the effect that "Well if little Johnny jumped off a bridge..would you do it too?"

Same premise applies here. The rationale does not justify the actions. Just like restitution after the fact does not wipe away the wrong.

Vikes066

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Posted By: jay behrens

Can anyone verify that Grob doesn't and never has sold anything he authenticates?

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: vikes066

Previous posts on GU board from Dave:

Based on some recent events, e-mails and phone calls, I am giving this some serious thought. In all likelyhood, I would contact some of the auction houses and offer my services only for baseball uniforms.

It would have to be understood that:

1. I am not a dealer and will not consign any item to any auction house while I am working in this capacity.
2. That all letters I produce will include my working notes and a final letter of opinion in which all referecnes used will be stated.
3. That I would have to be provided with a list of items to be looked at at least two weeks in advance of the trip so I can do advanced research and gather references.
4. Fees for services will have nothing to do with the value or price of the item in question.
5. If the auction house has retained another individual or service to look at the same item, I do not want to know what there opinion was before I do my work.

Would be curious on what your thoughts would be on this issue..

Dave

------

Back when Eric started this forum, he contacted me and asked I consider supporting his efforts by providing content and taking part in discussions about the hobby. I have done that. I am not interested in engaging in speculation nor providing amusement for others in some anonymous fashion.

If you have a question or think I may be able to help you with a project you are working on, please feel free to contact me:

LTC Dave Grob
14218 Roland Court
Woodbridge, VA 22193
(703) 580-5743
E-Mail: DaveGrob1@aol.com

I will be more than happy to help if I can, but I will not be participating in this forum for the forseable future.

Respectfully Yours,

Dave Grob

----

Respectfully submitted,

Vikes066

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Posted By: Steve

I can name one grader who didn't authenicate an item himself.
In a conversation with Dave Taube following the sale of the side-written Lou gehrig Hanna bat at Mastronet he told me that he was the owner of that bat when it sold. The bat was authenicated and graded by Dave Bushing. Hats off to Mr Taube who took this action upon himself prior to the recently controversy regarding this issue with authenicators.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The question is one that Bushing was asked in SCD. Taking a page from certain politicians who are truth-challenged, the authentication industry has chosen to frame the issue as whether or not they should be dealers. That is not the issue and never has been, it is a straw man argument that they set up so they can self-righteously knock it down. The issue is whether an authenticator should be authenticating then selling the stuff he owns without disclosing that he owns it. The whole point of an auctioneer using and touting third party authentication is that the third party is supposedly impartial and will give the buyer an honest opinion as to the item free from financial self interest in touting the item for sale that both the auctioneer and the seller have. It should be obvious that if the third party authenticator has a financial interest in the item's sale, he as an incentive to promote it and make more money. Think of it this way: you are sued for breaching a business contract. Do you really want the judge who is assigned your case to have an undisclosed ownership stake in your opponent's business such that he makes more money if the plaintiff wins? Of course not; and even if the judge is impartial, it looks so bad that you'd want to know right up front so you could ask for someone else to handle the case. Same is true for the authenticators; I cannot trust the opinion of the guy who makes more money if the thing sells for more money, which is why these guys hide their ownership interests and refuse to answer a straight question without a lot of dissembling and foot dragging.

Personally, I thought the Hall collection sale (Hall owned PSA, had PSA slab his cards, then sold them at auction) was more honest than what the authenticators who have undisclosed interests in these auction lots are doing. At least with Hall you knew right up front that there was a conflict of interest.

Don't fall for the propagandists' efforts to frame the terms of the debate, a la the SCD article. Make them answer the actual questions, not the ones they would like to answer.

The more those guys dance around the obvious true issue, the worse they dig themselves into the hole. Those dopes would not last ten minutes with a competent cross-examiner instead of a powder puff friendly interviewer. Of course, neither would a politician, which is why political debates are so boring and meaningless.

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Posted By: SIGMUND FREUD

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Posted By: Carl Jung

...and quit eyeing my game-used bat!

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Posted By: SIGMUND FREUD

I have The Authenticator coming for an appointment in an hour.

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Posted By: Carl Jung

Okay, I'll be there, but none of those smart-assed "bat envy" comments...by the way, when you are getting the LOA written up, keep in mind that I know all about you and your wife's little sister

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Posted By: Jeff Drum

Sort of like buying a house. Would you want the seller and the appraiser to be the same person?

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Posted By: SIGMUND FREUD

The Authenticator had an appointment with me yesterday.
He did mention something about also being the voice of the realtor, ... so far, that makes three.

The strangest part was when he kept on repeating from the coach, that he had a Masters from BSU.

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Posted By: D.J

Why don't you ask this question on the 'Game Used Memorabilia' Board? Sure you can get some better answers over there and I do believe this topic was recently covered over there. Plus this topic has been discussed with extreme ugliness before in the VBC and no need to continue.

DJ

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Posted By: jay behrens

It's just a thinly vieled attempted by Scott and Joe to get me to make some sort of response. They should have fun with this one

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: SIGMUND FREUD

What part of the question don't you understand?

D.J
It is apparent that you also misunderstood the question raised of Jay's wisdom to re-hash the Authentication Joke.
BTW D.J, you can pat yourself on the back for bumping this thread back up to the top.
That's a strange touch for someone that wants the authentication rehash ended.
Why don't you set up an appointment, and we can talk.

SF

edited by Leon- I don't want this bumped to the top so am editing it here. This is a thinly veiled attempt to stop this thread. It's been beat to death.