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  #51  
Old 03-23-2005, 05:26 PM
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Default Just So Tobacco Jesse Burkett

Posted By: warshawlaw

1. Given how many times the slabbers mess up, I would NEVER want to give them the discretion to destroy my card if their pimply-faced kid grader has a bad twinkie and decides my card is a fake. I'd sue them and we all know what that results in, don't we, which is why the graders just send them back.

2. Owing to the many scammers who sell altered cards raw, I'd like to see cards slabbed with alterations noted on the labels, as long as the card is authentic.

3. For that matter, I'd like to have the option to have the slabber authenticate the card rather than grade it.

4. For anyone interested, there is a great Rolling Stones Exhibit card from the late 1960s issued as part of the rock and roll series.

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  #52  
Old 03-23-2005, 05:46 PM
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Default Just So Tobacco Jesse Burkett

Posted By: Julie

(My father's favorite cartoon. Smitty standing by the Grand Canyon says it.)

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  #53  
Old 03-23-2005, 05:56 PM
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Default Just So Tobacco Jesse Burkett

Posted By: barrysloate

Julie- you lost me here. Who's getting socked in the jaw and why?

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  #54  
Old 03-23-2005, 06:57 PM
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Default Just So Tobacco Jesse Burkett

Posted By: petecld

I think what some people don't understand is that a card that is trimmed or altered in some way they are STILL 1000% authentic. If you erase a pencil mark from your AUTHENTIC T206 Honus Wagner it would be ridiculous to say your card is no longer authentic.

If you take a T206 card and cut it in 2 pieces . . . you have two AUTHENTIC pieces of a T206 card.

Extreme examples: the chopped up items the card companies use for inserts, assuming the articles they use are authentic just by chopping them up into pieces doesn't mean the pieces aren't authentic. . they are just pieces cut from the whole. Another example is the guy who cuts out the little pictures from the guides - the cut out bits are still authentic, just not presented in their original context.

As far as comics goes I have yet to experience any collector who is adamantly against the practice CGC does with restored books. For the buyer it is a no loose situation. I think it's great and I really wish SGC had followed their sister company and been the hobby trail blazer and adopted the same practice years ago. Yes, some will say that people can still break the comic/card out and sell as un-restored but it is a poor argument to me since scum will always be scum and there will be nothing you can do about it except be vigilant against it.

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  #55  
Old 03-23-2005, 07:19 PM
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Default Just So Tobacco Jesse Burkett

Posted By: Chuck R

Pete: I agree that the two pieces encapsulated in this slab are authentic to the era and the company, but they are not pieces of the same card. I don't really understand the entity that is being slabbed here and I don't understand how the word mount can be used for a card (yes, I know the image was deposited into a hollowed out depression in the other card). Cards don't have mounts. This has been encapsulated as a Burkett card, but in reality only part of it is a Burkett card.

Chuck

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  #56  
Old 03-23-2005, 09:03 PM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Communicating the facts is another.

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  #57  
Old 03-23-2005, 11:30 PM
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Posted By: Rhys

Why not just call it "Restored" and be done with it. All areas of antiques and collectibles have a restoration process and as long as items are marked that way and sold as such nobody (except for prewar baeball card collectors appearantly) have aproblem with it. Besides, was the original mission statement for PSA or other grading companies to "keep all cards which are not 100% authentic out of holders forever" or was it more likely something like "We want to be able to PROTECT and EVALUATE vintage baseball cards". I would guess it was the latter, so let the grading companies evaluate and protect the cards they get sent and mark them as such. I see no probalem with slabbing any restored, altered, or trimmed cards as long as they are marked as such. I know others disagree, but I think PSA did the right think by slabbing the card.

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  #58  
Old 03-23-2005, 11:39 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I've long been a proponent of SGC following CGC's lead and using different colored labels for restored/altered cards. There really is no good reason not to. We are just about the only field of collectibles that frowns on resotration. That will eventually change, that I have no doubt about. So SGc may as well take the lead. It will only mean more business for them if they do and are first to offer it as a regualr feature.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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  #59  
Old 03-24-2005, 12:55 AM
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Posted By: Judge Dred

Jay,

Did I understand your post correctly? Does SGC encapsulate cards as authentic and use a different color lablel? Does this mean they will accept an altered card for authentication but not grading?

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  #60  
Old 03-24-2005, 01:36 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I wish thye did, and there is no reason not to other than current hobby convention. All it will take is one company to do it ona regular basis and everyone else will follow suit. I think right now they didn't want to give it up becuase it a way to pocket a nice chunk of extra cash.

To me, there is nothing more annoying than having a card sent back and being out the slabbing cost. They didn't have slab the card, etc, yet they keep the entire fee. This isn't right. They should be offering a free submission on a card that will grade of at least give you credit towards your next submission. Following thelead of CGC and using their system would solve all those problems.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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  #61  
Old 03-24-2005, 11:22 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

I acquired probably the rarest item in my collection recently. It is a T229 printers scrap with a Jack Johnson with ghost front and a different boxer back printed off center and upside down. Only problem is that 1/3 of the card is torn away. Remember that fragment of a T206 Wagner some years ago; didn't PSA slab it?

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  #62  
Old 03-24-2005, 11:36 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Adam, that's exactly my point. If you send your 2/3 boxing card to PSA what do they do? Have a conference to decide whether to slab it? Send it back to you and then have you angry at them? Big can of worms.

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