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  #1  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:02 AM
judsonhamlin judsonhamlin is offline
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Default Batter Up Color Variations

In a recent thread about the R318 set, some collaborative searching revealed that, contrary to existing belief, red- and green-printed Batter Ups appear to have been issued only with cards 1-40, as opposed to all 80 "low numbered" cards. This was based upon a review of cards for sale on eBay, the Old Cardboard set gallery and the collections of a couple of members.
Throwing this out to the board for the following:

Does anyone have red or green Batter Ups numbered 41-80? Keep in mind that the pink/purple cards have some variety in the ink, but red cards are truly red.
On the related issue of sheet size, are there any uncut sheets out there that would show how the cards came out of the printing press? If there were 40 card sheets, then that would bolster the idea that the red and green printings were discontinued after the first sheet was distributed.

Thanks to zan, brianp-beme and spec for contributing to this discussion which, if it plays out, might lead to a revision in the set checklist.
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:10 AM
Zan Zan is offline
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Thanks for your research. Eager to see what people come up with.

I think because so little is known about this set (either because of accessibility of knowledge or the popularity of the set) it's safe to say that we can make assumptions that your theories are valid, but I'm glad you opened it up to others to contribute.
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  #3  
Old 06-04-2014, 11:04 AM
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Default Trans-fo and more-fo

Thanks Judson...I was thinking of making the color issue part of a new thread. I have reposted my comments here for easier reference.

All of my red and green Batter-Ups are from #1-40. I have examples of all of the colors for #'s 41-80 except for red and green. Definitely makes it appear like the set, at least the first 80 cards, was issued in groups of 40.

To extrapolate, the higher number cards, which are noticeably shorter, would most likely have been issued in two 56 card groupings, which would account for the 112 additional cards (#'s 81 -192).

Perhaps the first two printings of 40 were 8 across and 5 down on a sheet, while, the second two printings could have been 8 across and 7 down on a sheet (with some of the extra room coming from the shorter heighth of the cards). Thus National Chicle could have dropped the two colors after their first 1-40 sheet run.

A side point...I have always been floored how many HOF players are in the first 40 cards (22), compared to how many are found #'s 41-80 (5). National Chicle was certainly stacking the deck with their first run.

Brian
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  #4  
Old 06-06-2014, 01:46 PM
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All my Batter Ups that are green or red number 40 or lower as well. This partially explains why you see fewer of them. I'm also glad you pointed out the distinction between the pink/magenta cards and those that are red. I'm surprised I've never seen a premium charged for the red and green cards, which seem tougher to find. I'd like to see a population comparison between, for instance, a pink Lefty Grove and a red or green Lefty Grove.

Also, I'm curious about the color varieties in the cards numbered 81 and above. The distinctions ares more subtle, but they definitely exist. Mine have green, blue gold and sepia tints. Are some shades tougher than others or limited to certain cards?
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File Type: jpg 34hallahan.jpg (68.0 KB, 231 views)

Last edited by Chris Counts; 06-06-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-14-2022, 08:09 PM
srittenberg srittenberg is offline
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Default Batter-Up #60 in red

Hi. A friend told me about this thread. I have a Batter Up #60 Morgan in red. I'm attaching a picture.
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2022, 12:52 AM
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That appears to be the purple tint. Here is a quote I pulled from Judson's post, which I fully agree with:


"Keep in mind that the pink/purple cards have some variety in the ink, but red cards are truly red".

Brian

Last edited by brianp-beme; 05-15-2022 at 12:53 AM.
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2022, 05:44 AM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
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A little OT but here are my higher numbers - I gather they would all be considered sepia. I wonder why the 140 is in larger letters? this may have been covered in original post.
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2022, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Batter Up Color Variations

Only the Hack is a sepia. The rest appear to be blue.
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2022, 06:43 AM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edhans View Post
Only the Hack is a sepia. The rest appear to be blue.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2022, 09:54 AM
BobC BobC is offline
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Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the 1934-36 Batter-Up cards should more correctly and accurately be split and listed as two distinctly different sets. And quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't been.

The obvious evidence is that cards 1-80 are all a larger, uniform size, and come in the aforementioned multiple colors/tones, as opposed to the high number cards 81-192 that are all smaller and only come in the darker, muted sepia or black/dark bluish tones. They were also issued over multiple years, with the low number series being first released in 1934, and then the high number series being released separately, around 1936 I believe.

The main evidence against this separate sets thinking, I am guessing, is that the issue is sequentially numbered from 1 to 192, so it appears it was intended as one continuous issue. And also that no players are duplicated in both the high and low number series. However, there are various other card issues that have shown such similar sequential numbering, and yet are still considered as separate and distinctly different sets. Just look at some of the W card issues. If nothing else, maybe Burdick should have designated the 1-80 low number card series as R218-1, and the 81-192 high number series as R218-2. That would seem more appropriate and consistent to how other similar set anomalies were treated and designated by him. Just my $0.02.
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2022, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the 1934-36 Batter-Up cards should more correctly and accurately be split and listed as two distinctly different sets. And quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't been.

The obvious evidence is that cards 1-80 are all a larger, uniform size, and come in the aforementioned multiple colors/tones, as opposed to the high number cards 81-192 that are all smaller and only come in the darker, muted sepia or black/dark bluish tones. They were also issued over multiple years, with the low number series being first released in 1934, and then the high number series being released separately, around 1936 I believe.

The main evidence against this separate sets thinking, I am guessing, is that the issue is sequentially numbered from 1 to 192, so it appears it was intended as one continuous issue. And also that no players are duplicated in both the high and low number series. However, there are various other card issues that have shown such similar sequential numbering, and yet are still considered as separate and distinctly different sets. Just look at some of the W card issues. If nothing else, maybe Burdick should have designated the 1-80 low number card series as R218-1, and the 81-192 high number series as R218-2. That would seem more appropriate and consistent to how other similar set anomalies were treated and designated by him. Just my $0.02.
I agree with this assessment. Batter-Ups, because of the size difference, should have a separate classification.

Here are a few more of my thoughts. Based on the availability of tints, it seems like the 1-80 cards were issued in two groups: 1 to 40, with the six different tints, and 41 to 80 with the four tints. I always found it interesting that the producers really top loaded the lower numbers with stars...22 of the first 40 cards are HOF players, and plenty of other notable stars. While 41-80 only has 6 HOF players.

I also think it a possibility that cards 81-192 were issued in two 56 card groups (81-136 and 137-192). I have never paid much attention to the tints on these higher numbers (I prefer the look of the 1-80 cards over the higher numbers), but to me it seems there are possibly more subtle tints available than just sepia and blue/black...any others out there who can chime in?

Brian
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2022, 12:18 PM
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I just realized that I previously posted a lot of the same info seen directly above. Indeed, 8 years ago in post #3 on this thread.

At least I am consistent.

Brian

Last edited by brianp-beme; 05-15-2022 at 12:20 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2022, 03:22 PM
judsonhamlin judsonhamlin is offline
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In the land of useless tasks, I plan on trying to recreate the high number sheets - I am sure they were not issued sequentially and I strongly suspect that 81-192 were skip numbered and released at separate times based on team ID and uniform photos in the high numbers, as well as the font size used in the caption boxes.
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2022, 03:46 PM
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It's nice to see this thread get some activity after eight years. I agree the Batter-Ups should be divided into separate 1934 and 1936 sets. As for those issued in '36, here are the variations I have. It appears there are distinctive subtle tints of green, blue, brown and gold, along with some cards done in straight B&W.
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File Type: jpg 36haas.jpg (101.6 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg 36herman3.jpg (139.6 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg 36tlee.jpg (91.6 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg 36warnecke3.jpg (79.2 KB, 79 views)
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2022, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judsonhamlin View Post
In the land of useless tasks, I plan on trying to recreate the high number sheets - I am sure they were not issued sequentially and I strongly suspect that 81-192 were skip numbered and released at separate times based on team ID and uniform photos in the high numbers, as well as the font size used in the caption boxes.
Intriguing idea about the skip numbering. Both card #81 and #192 appear to have the bigger font, which in my mind would indicate that they belong to the first high # printing, because the makers would want kids to know what range of cards they needed to collect.

Though it may seem like an useless task for many, the results would be fascinating for us fortunate few. For my type of fun I think I will utilize the Old Cardboard gallery for this set to determine large/or small font size on each of the high # cards, and post those results here. In my ideal world, there would be 56 of each type.

Brian
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  #16  
Old 05-15-2022, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Counts View Post
It's nice to see this thread get some activity after eight years. I agree the Batter-Ups should be divided into separate 1934 and 1936 sets. As for those issued in '36, here are the variations I have. It appears there are distinctive subtle tints of green, blue, brown and gold, along with some cards done in straight B&W.
Some of those are extremely subtle...none of that bold "I'm a green tint" and "Well I'm obviously a red tint" as seen in the lower number cards.

Brian
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2022, 09:57 PM
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Here are the font size lists for the high number cards 81 through 192, as far as I could tell. Not as straightforward as far as I was thinking it would be...there are 7 different font sizes used (once again, as far as I could ascertain).

Here are those font size groupings, identified below by their card number, and based upon the size of the 'Batter-Up' text on the front, as far as I can spit (I already used 'tell', 'thinking' and 'ascertain', so spit was the obvious choice):

--Smallest size font (6 total) - Identified as Group A

100, 102, 139, 143, 157, 158


--Next size (35 total) - Group B

82, 83, 84, 86, 87, 88, 91, 92, 94, 95, 96, 98, 99, 101, 104, 105, 106, 108, 111, 115, 117, 119, 120, 122, 124, 126, 131, 132, 135, 137, 138, 150, 151, 155, 159


--Next size larger (35 total) - Group C

90, 97, 103, 107, 109, 110, 114, 116, 118, 121, 125, 127, 129, 134, 136, 142, 144, 147, 148, 149, 152, 153, 156, 160, 162, 165, 166, 168, 169, 170, 173, 176, 180, 181, 182


--Next size up (16 total) - Group D

85, 89, 93, 113, 141, 145, 146, 154, 171, 172, 175, 177, 179, 183, 184, 187


--Next up (11 total) - Group E

112, 123, 128, 130, 133, 162, 164, 178 185, 188, 190


--Next larger again (4 total) - Group F

167, 174, 186, 191


--Absolutely the largest (5 total) - Group G

81, 140, 161, 189, 192


If my font estimations are accurate (I am likely to be off some), here are possible print run groupings that would add up to a sheet size of 56

Group B (35), Group D, (16), Group G (5) = 56

Group A (6), Group C (35), Group E (11), Group F (4) = 56

or

Group C (35), Group D (16), Group G (5) = 56

Group A (6), Group C (35), Group E (11), Group F (4) = 56


I am probably making things too simple, but it was fun to try to make some order out of font chaos.

Brian
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Old 05-16-2022, 07:14 AM
judsonhamlin judsonhamlin is offline
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Excellent! Ill use that to see if the slight miscuts match up with those groups of 56
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