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  #51  
Old 05-23-2022, 04:29 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjh View Post
This industry will benefit from anyone providing innovation, price transparency, trust, and liquidity.
The (current modern) Industry is propped up on false hope, ilegimate past sales, and people using money they dont have to buy cards the dont want, to sell before aninterest payment is due, to a greater fool.

We are in the mid to late innings of an " ARKK' disruption " boom. Where past valuation doesnt matter. Prices keep going up and the exuberance becomes more and more irrational each day. New investors to the game see their neighbor making a fortune and the shoe shine boy is recommending sportscards.

I wont be wrong, but I might be early calling the top here
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Last edited by Republicaninmass; 05-23-2022 at 06:41 AM.
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  #52  
Old 05-23-2022, 06:47 AM
chriskim chriskim is offline
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Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
The (current modern) Industry is propped up on false hope, ilegimate past sales, and people using money they dont have to buy cards the dont want, to sell before aninterest payment is due, to a greater fool.
"people using money they dont have to buy cards??"

I am unaware of any loans or margin you can use on buying cards unlike stock market. Am I missing something? I don't want to miss the boat.
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  #53  
Old 05-23-2022, 06:52 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Originally Posted by chriskim View Post
"people using money they dont have to buy cards??"



I am unaware of any loans or margin you can use on buying cards unlike stock market. Am I missing something? I don't want to miss the boat.
You mentioned in your post. Aside from credit cards to buy "panini boxes at dutch auctions" or bidding up the latest prospect on ebay with hope it can be refunded if prices fall, pwcc and auction houses are offering cash advances based on past sales. As well as credit from consignments to buy in the future auctions.

We will skip using PPP loans and stimulus to buy cards instead of stocking up on needs or adding to savings

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  #54  
Old 05-23-2022, 08:13 AM
chriskim chriskim is offline
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Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
You mentioned in your post. Aside from credit cards to buy "panini boxes at dutch auctions" or bidding up the latest prospect on ebay with hope it can be refunded if prices fall, pwcc and auction houses are offering cash advances based on past sales. As well as credit from consignments to buy in the future auctions.

We will skip using PPP loans and stimulus to buy cards instead of stocking up on needs or adding to savings

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I completely missed this conversation. Now it "makes sense". This world is nut!
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2022, 09:55 AM
BioCRN BioCRN is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
You still owe the tax, unless you choose tax evasion. It's an issue for YOU, not PWCC. Did you really think it was that easy for you to evade taxes? Your state isn't that dumb.
Yeah, it's not a big deal for me and if they come for the loot they'll get it. My buying/selling isn't tied to a business and I can cover any personal liability if I choose to not directly address the issue.

I'm just sharing my experience of how the vault has been operating as far as requesting the cards being shipped to me and how long (or short, in this case) of time between being in the vault and being shipped.

Every piece of tax sketchiness (all of it from accident or oversight, btw) I've been involved in has been easily solved by agreeing to pay a lesser amount than I'm owed and without penalty anyway. This has all been personal liability not tied to a business, though.
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2022, 03:57 PM
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molenick molenick is offline
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I agree that using credit cards to buy collectibles is spending money you don't have (although I guess buying anything with credit cards is spending money you don't have).

I think of a cash advance against a consignment as a little different. If I consign what the auction house and I agree to be $6K of cards and they agree to advance me $2K then this is essentially a no interest, collateralized loan which the auction house and I agree will be paid back in full in a few months using the proceeds of the sale. The end result is that I have $2K now and $4k later to spend on whatever I choose to spend it on (as opposed to having $6K later). Either way it is based on the proceeds from actually selling the cards...not based on the cards merely existing somewhere in a vault.

I think (maybe?) this is different from money borrowed against cards someone is holding for me but which I have not agreed to sell. That is more like a home equity loan, where you borrow money against the value of your house but are not actually selling your house. In that case, I do think of it as a credit card scenario and in a sense as "money you don't have").

I could be wrong, just my take on it.
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Last edited by molenick; 05-23-2022 at 04:01 PM.
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  #57  
Old 05-23-2022, 04:03 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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It all depends when the margin call comes. What happens if values fall 50%?


What if the advance doesnt cover your future purchases. Also, what are the tax ramifications? Is this some sort of 1031 exchange for cards?

Just too many new variables heating up the already white hot market.

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  #58  
Old 05-23-2022, 04:20 PM
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molenick molenick is offline
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I was going to mention values falling but I didn't want my post to be too long.

Yes, there is a risk that between the time of consignment and sale card values will fall so much that you will not be able to cover the advance. Also, I was not saying the advance would necessarily be used to cover other purchases...it could be used to cover the cost of a new hot water boiler.

I guess I am just saying that if you sell $6K worth of cards you actually have $6k cash as a result and that an advance just means you are are getting $2k now and $4k later.

There are of course other variables involved and in theory the prudent thing is to not get an advance and wait until the auction is complete and you have received your check before spending (or saving) the proceeds.
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Last edited by molenick; 05-23-2022 at 04:25 PM.
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  #59  
Old 05-23-2022, 04:38 PM
BobC BobC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
It all depends when the margin call comes. What happens if values fall 50%?


What if the advance doesnt cover your future purchases. Also, what are the tax ramifications? Is this some sort of 1031 exchange for cards?

Just too many new variables heating up the already white hot market.

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There is emphatically NO possibility of a Section 1031 Like-Kind Exchange on baseball cards. Under current tax law the only type of asset that can ne subject to a Like-Kind Exchange is real estate......period!
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  #60  
Old 05-23-2022, 04:55 PM
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molenick molenick is offline
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To be clear, I was not talking about tax-related issues (of which I offer no advice since I am not an expert).

Just commenting on cash advances made against future sales versus loans made against property being held in a vault. Maybe there is no difference, I was just bringing it up for discussion.
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  #61  
Old 05-24-2022, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjh View Post
Asking for an opinion about PWCC on an N54 forum is pretty much like asking Fox News an opinion about Joe Biden.
I loathe faux news but this is not close to an apt comparison and only an ignorant fool
Would try and state this.
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