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  #51  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:22 PM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
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Seriously, where does everyone stand on this? Still a little concerning....
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  #52  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
I have a question for the OP--do you know Ryan Braun?
I think he knows Curt Schilling
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  #53  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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Seriously, where does everyone stand on this? Still a little concerning....
Kevin,

I think David clearly showed the shill bidding by the OP, unless I am reading it incorrectly
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  #54  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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Default What a great debut single

The OP made. Gonig to be a top 5 smash
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  #55  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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That stock photo looks trimmed.
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  #56  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
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WOW, Just WOW!!!! Nice work David!!
+1.
The guy is brilliant.
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  #57  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:28 PM
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WOW, Just WOW!!!! Nice work David!!
Yep, good job so far, David. I have a feeling there's more to reveal.

Of course, it would be tough to accept the fact that someone so honest, hard-working, innovative, knowledgeable and reputable as Mr. Pankiewicz could stoop to such a level as to actually shill bid one of his own auctions.

Let it be known that this should not be construed as an attack ( ) , but rather a statement of fact and my incredulous disbelief that someone who happens to have a long resume of accomplishments in the sportscard industry, has hundreds of long-time customers that enjoy buying from him and selling to him, and has made a countless number of friends that are big names and small names in the industry that respect him as a reputable sportscard dealer, would actually artificially inflate the bidding on one of his auctions. WOW!

Last edited by CW; 08-28-2013 at 07:31 PM. Reason: add my name.... €hû¢k Wölƒƒ
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  #58  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:31 PM
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*

Last edited by Bocabirdman; 08-28-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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  #59  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
+1.
The guy is brilliant.
Add me to the list. Nice work
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  #60  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:36 PM
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Default David, how do you know...

serious question from a naïve person:
how do you know that gpark73 = that 9***8 or whatever shows up in the bidding history?
Thanks,
JasonL
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  #61  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:39 PM
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serious question from a naïve person:
how do you know that gpark73 = that 9***8 or whatever shows up in the bidding history?
Thanks,
JasonL
Jason,

Because he was the winning bidder and the user ID of the winning bidder is 9***8

Greg
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  #62  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by markf31 View Post
The commotion with the Shell card was a direct issue regarding just the grading of the card. I think the bigger issue and the issue that more people are concerned about is the apparent trim, doctoring and resubmission of cards like the 34 Goudey Gehrig.


Mark Fox
I can't agree more, TPG can be inconsistent regarding grade, but the apparent changes to the Gehrig should be addressed.
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  #63  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:42 PM
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serious question from a naïve person:
how do you know that gpark73 = that 9***8 or whatever shows up in the bidding history?
Thanks,
JasonL
There is some e-bay link where you can check the actual bids people have placed I don't know what it is anymore though.
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  #64  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:44 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
+1.
The guy is brilliant.
I said it in the other thread, but I want to say it again here too just to be clear. Some of this information I was able to come up with on my own, however a lot was sent to me via PM and email from many other sources (some of which really surprised me). I certainly don't want to take credit when others helped me out a lot. I think they wish to remain anonymous, but they're more than welcome to chime in and take credit where credit is due.
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  #65  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gnaz01 View Post
Jason,

Because he was the winning bidder and the user ID of the winning bidder is 9***8

Greg
Exactly, and that doesn't change. It remains the same, no matter what he bid on and/or wins. Once you know the eBay username, it's very easy to track and confirm from there.
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  #66  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:50 PM
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I have a long resume of accomplishments in the sportscard industry. I have hundreds of long-time customers that enjoy buying from me and selling to me. I have made a countless number of friends that are big names and small names in the industry that respect me as a reputable sportscard dealer.
Explain no more. Must be just a misunderstanding. You know, sort of like that guy... oh, what's his name. Um... I just had it. Mustard... Mustang... Master... Mastro! Yeah Bill Mastro! Now he was a well accomplished and well respected man who had countless long-time customers. How's he doing these days?
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  #67  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:52 PM
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This guy is as arrogant as they come. Not only does he demand that the other thread's title be changed (as if he should have a say one way or the other), but then he comes here and makes his own thread proclaiming himself to be holier than thou.

He didn't address any of the issues specifically, but gave some generic reasoning that he really seems to believe makes everything okay.

Something stinks in here

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Last edited by CharleyBrown; 08-28-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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  #68  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:52 PM
steve B steve B is online now
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Originally Posted by JP21 View Post
I am writing this in response to the negative accusations and assumptions made over some upgrades that I received from PSA lately. As you can see by the diversification of cards that I have gotten upgrades on, that I am on ebay and other sites looking for cards that can possibly upgrade for hours every day. If I was just buying expensive Mantle cards and turning 5's and 6's into 8's and 9's, I would see why people would get upset over that. But I'm NOT doing that. I'm searching hundreds of cards a day, thousands of cards a week to find a handful of cards to buy and possibly crack out and resubmit. I submit hundreds of cards a month. I am bound to get a couple upgrades once in a while. I have been in the card business for over 30 years. I have been involved in grading cards for over 15 years. I work very hard and I have developed an eye to find undergraded cards.

To the surprise of many on this board, maintaining the original integrity of every card I buy and regrade is very important to me. I do not trim cards. I do not paint cards. I do not power erase cards. I do not do anything to a card that sacrifices the original integrity, edges, corners, surface, gloss, size, design or shape of a card to achieve a higher grade.
The Art Shell rookie PSA 8 upgrade to a PSA 10 seems to have caused the most commotion. I know it's hard for people to understand how that could happen without some sort of shenanigans going on but there were none. I literally cracked out the card, put it into a card saver and submitted it at the National last year. The card came back a PSA 10 and the owner of the card (my client) opted to sell it since he was putting a HOF Rookie PSA 9 set together. Top/bottom centering on 1973 Topps football is not black and white because of the funky design of the card. It is very possible that a first-year grader at PSA miscalculated the centering and graded the card a PSA 8 the first time. The more experienced graders that grade at the National put it in a PSA 10.

Rick Probstein deserves an apology from whoever accused Rick of being in cahoots with me for me to buy an undergraded card and resell it through him after regrading. This is so ridiculous. Rick is just like any other auction house. He makes a living from getting consignments. His job is to get the most money he can for the cards that are consigned to him. It's not his job to tell the consignor to tell him that his card may upgrade if resubmitted... there isn't an auction house on earth that would return the card to the consignor so he could resubmit it. To blame Rick for anything associated with upgrades is completely absurd.

Hopefully, this will help people understand that people who try to get upgrades on graded cards are not evil. Whoever enjoys following my every move, can put a scan as big as the moon of any one of my upgrades and I will stand behind that card and explain to any potential buyer why that card would be an excellent and legitimate addition to their collection. I don't feel that I have to explain any of my upgrades to anyone else.

I have a lot of good friends and colleagues in the industry that got a couple good laughs over these threads at my expense because the attacks were just so outrageous and ridiculous. But the attacks started to get personal and that's where I have to draw the line. My reputation as an honest, hard-working, innovative, knowledgeable and reputable sportscard dealer is very important to me. I can't stress enough that I stand behind every single card that I have ever graded and sold.

I also noticed that there is a lot of joking around. One guy wrote my name 10 times in a post after Leon said I requested my name be removed from a personal attack... It seems like a lot of you want to press people's buttons, and you feel like you can say anything you want while acting as judge and jury. This was evident when the guy agreed to change the title of his personal attack on me if I agreed to respond. Well guy, you accomplished what you wanted to accomplish by calling me a disgrace to the hobby. That was something that I didn't deserve and something that I don't deserve more of going forward. I have a long resume of accomplishments in the sportscard industry. I have hundreds of long-time customers that enjoy buying from me and selling to me. I have made a countless number of friends that are big names and small names in the industry that respect me as a reputable sportscard dealer.
I really don't feel that I need to further explain or defend anything that I've ever done in the sportscard industry.
I have not contacted a lawyer and I hope to not have to contact a lawyer, but my reputation is my most valuable asset. Going forward, I want to make it very clear that any personal attacks with my name in it will be forwarded to my lawyer. Hopefully, the fellow dealers and collectors of this board, will refrain from personal attacks going forward since I held up my end of the terms of the deal I made with Leon to respond. And Leon, you're welcome for all the extra hits to your site at my expense again. Respectfully, J.Pankiewicz
I've highlighted the section I have a question about in red.

My question is this. What caused the reduction in the severity of the ink drag mark on the back of the Camille Henry card? And similarly what caused the reduction in blue ink spatters on the front of the O'Rourke?

Both cards are shown before and after in this thread
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174534

Are you saying the cards are unaltered?

Steve B
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  #69  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
I said it in the other thread, but I want to say it again here too just to be clear. Some of this information I was able to come up with on my own, however a lot was sent to me via PM and email from many other sources (some of which really surprised me). I certainly don't want to take credit when others helped me out a lot. I think they wish to remain anonymous, but they're more than welcome to chime in and take credit where credit is due.
You're putting it all together and making it very easy to understand. That's not easy to do. I truly appreciate the work you're putting into this and also would like to thank those that have assisted you. Kudos!
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  #70  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:55 PM
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Joe:
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  #71  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:56 PM
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Default Plain and simple

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

and if she weighs the same as a duck then....
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  #72  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

and if she weighs the same as a duck then....

She's a witch!
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  #73  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:00 PM
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The differences in the O'Rourke along the right border are pretty dramatic, I doubt a scanner could account for them especially as the scans seems to be at the same settings otherwise.
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  #74  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:10 PM
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You're getting sued too.
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  #75  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:11 PM
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You're getting sued too.
I know one lawyer not to call.
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  #76  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:12 PM
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i know one lawyer not to call.
lol!!
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  #77  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:12 PM
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Default full names in this thread

Everyone will need their first and last name by their post(s) in this thread or in their sig line etc..., if it isn't there already etc. If their full name isn't in there, they can edit their comments out, put their name in the post or I will put their name in it. . Nothing personal. Thanks everyone.
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  #78  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:15 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The differences in the O'Rourke along the right border are pretty dramatic, I doubt a scanner could account for them especially as the scans seems to be at the same settings otherwise.
Exactly. Here are the two side by side for comparison. What happened to all the blue print marks? If they were scanned by 2 different scanners, that might account for some of it, but they were both scanned by Probstein and I doubt he changed the scanner settings.

Note: I reduced the size of the images. If you go back to the thread and look at the supersized images, it's even more obvious.
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  #79  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:22 PM
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Curiously, the flip is whiter/brighter in the 8 scan. Is it safe to assume PSA used the same paper stock for both of those flips?
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  #80  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:50 PM
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I know one lawyer not to call.
Pffffffffft lose my number. You'll probably try to give me that Cobb for payment.
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  #81  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:55 PM
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Pffffffffft lose my number. You'll probably try to give me that Cobb for payment.
Gotta bump it first.
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  #82  
Old 08-28-2013, 09:28 PM
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I doubt he will post again as his response was lackluster. Although he is logged in and reading this thread as I type. Probably raised more questions than before. Here are a few ?'s I'd be interested to know:

1) The current business relationship between Rick and Joe?
2) The reason he left SGC as a grader?
3) Why he bid on cards that he won previously from Rick in a new higher grade?
4) Curious as hell to see what SGC deems on another look at the 34 Gehrig?

In relation to question 3:

http://tinyurl.com/n26j9a3



http://tinyurl.com/n72kbpg

And I did find it funny he changed his ebay ID when things were heating up, probably just pure coincidence
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  #83  
Old 08-28-2013, 10:40 PM
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Default lawyers

How come everybody on this board, except me, has a lawyer? I do have a dude that delivers my milk every Tuesday.

Cheers,
Geno
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  #84  
Old 08-28-2013, 10:50 PM
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  #85  
Old 08-29-2013, 04:15 AM
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Default To Geno

I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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  #86  
Old 08-29-2013, 05:21 AM
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I don't know...from the "Lebron James" type title...to the lame, BS explanation that doesn't explain anything...I find Joe's explanation to be lacking any real substance...and as stated he failed to address any legitimate concerns!

I vote for reinstatement of the original title ASAP!
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  #87  
Old 08-29-2013, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
I don't know...from the "Lebron James" type title...to the lame, BS explanation that doesn't explain anything...I find Joe's explanation to be lacking any real substance...and as stated he failed to address any legitimate concerns!

I vote for reinstatement of the original title ASAP!
Ditto. And, if every one else is required to have their first and last name on posts, he should have it on his...
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  #88  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:38 AM
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That saying still holds true: "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much."
Nice. Even more apropos: "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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  #89  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:43 AM
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Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
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  #90  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:49 AM
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Just now reading the opening post, in my opinion based on the scan, the Art Shell PSA 10 was clearly overgraded based on the bottom left corner.

What's bothersome is that a person who claims to have been a professional grader should have clearly seen upon inspection with the training of a professional grader that this card was overgraded. Rather than correct the oversight with PSA, he chose to make a huge profit on the card.

As stated by many others, there were other salient issues, arguably more serious than bumps on crackouts that were never addressed, which I find rather disturbing.



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  #91  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
Ditto. And, if every one else is required to have their first and last name on posts, he should have it on his...
He does (now) as I just added it as I said I would.

As far as changing anything else or stepping in, I always prefer not to. A forum member can generally edit their responses if they want to. It's part of the forum and the way it's always been.
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  #92  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:52 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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...since I held up my end of the terms of the deal...
Ummm, no you did not hold up your end of the deal. You only mentioned the questionable bumps. You didn't address the card doctoring, other than to deny it. The '34 Gehrig you bought clearly had the pencil mark erased. Are you telling the board all of our eyes are deceiving us? Come on! Other cards you bought seem to have been trimmed and/or had stray print marks removed. You didn't address the obvious shill bidding and you didn't address many of the questions that other members had. You made some generic statement that doesn't mean squat.

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Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
I vote for reinstatement of the original title ASAP!
Done

Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 08-29-2013 at 06:57 AM.
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  #93  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:50 AM
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D.P.Johnson D.P.Johnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
He does (now) as I just added it as I said I would.

As far as changing anything else or stepping in, I always prefer not to. A forum member can generally edit their responses if they want to. It's part of the forum and the way it's always been.
Perfect. It's there for eternity (or until he cuts another deal)......
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  #94  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Ummm, no you did not hold up your end of the deal. You only mentioned the questionable bumps. You didn't address the card doctoring, other than to deny it. The '34 Gehrig you bought clearly had the pencil mark erased. Are you telling the board all of our eyes are deceiving us? Come on! Other cards you bought seem to have been trimmed and/or had stray print marks removed. You didn't address the obvious shill bidding and you didn't address many of the questions that other members had. You made some generic statement that doesn't mean squat.



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Beautiful! He fell for it hook, line, and sinker...Rookie move "Joey"...
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  #95  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:53 AM
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I'm half asleep, so please bear with me, but I felt compelled to see where this discussion has gone in the last few hours.

Have we really gotten to the point where we can take the same card, submit it to PSA three times (without making a single alteration, or even a pencil mark erasure), and get three vastly different grades?

I understand no matter how stringent the guidelines are for grading at a given tpg, there's always going to be a human element. Mistakes are going to be made, especially considering the sheer volume of cards being handled and graded. But what does it say about the quality of PSA's service when three different individuals (hypothetically speaking), all of them well educated, and with thousands of hours of practical experience in their chosen field, could have such varied opinions on the same piece? PSA is supposed to be the industry leader. There's only so many variables involved in grading.

To use an analogy, when you have a prize fight, you'll have three different judges sitting ring side. A boxing match can go up to twelve rounds, three minutes each. Even with all that's going on, the judges at the end of the match will present their cards, and while there will be some variance in scores, they are usually pretty damned close.

There's no flurry of activity in grading a card. These graders are looking at one card. They will have magnification to see every detail. They'll have ideal lighting to view the card. So how could three so called "experts" have such wildly different opinions? How the hell would that possible? Do the graders not have sufficient time to examine the card as needed? I thought, too, that each card was viewed by multiple graders. If one grader is off in their opinion, wouldn't the second opinion normalize the skewed marks?

If I'm a grader, and somebody sends me a card that is going to sell for five figures, I'm going to take the time necessary to critique every element of the card accurately, knowing full well that the amount of money changing hands is directly tied to my efforts.

This is not right. It just isn't. This doesn't pass the smell test.
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Last edited by the 'stache; 08-29-2013 at 08:01 AM.
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  #96  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:55 AM
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rainier2004 rainier2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP21 View Post
To the surprise of many on this board, maintaining the original integrity of every card I buy and regrade is very important to me. I do not trim cards. I do not paint cards. I do not power erase cards. I do not do anything to a card that sacrifices the original integrity, edges, corners, surface, gloss, size, design or shape of a card to achieve a higher grade.
Can you imagine your wife asking "did you cheat on me?" and answering:
To your surprise I do everything I can to maintain the integrity of marriage, I do not condone cheating nor do I promote it. I do not host parties for swingers, I don't participate in porn sites nor do I condone prostitution. I do not do anything that sacrifices the original integrity of our vows...all a bunch of BS, just like this response. He isn't denying erasing anything or removing any marks, as long he doesn't "power erase" cards, whatever that means.
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  #97  
Old 08-29-2013, 08:29 AM
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Power erasing is actually erasing large portions of the border of a picture to improve the centering, such as on a 57 Topps, an art form mastered by certain card doctors in the 90s. I think PSA became hip to it so not sure it is still going on.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-29-2013 at 08:30 AM.
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  #98  
Old 08-29-2013, 08:36 AM
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Oops. Nevermind
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Last edited by WhenItWasAHobby; 08-29-2013 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Double post
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:39 AM
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WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainier2004 View Post
Can you imagine your wife asking "did you cheat on me?" and answering:
To your surprise I do everything I can to maintain the integrity of marriage, I do not condone cheating nor do I promote it. I do not host parties for swingers, I don't participate in porn sites nor do I condone prostitution. I do not do anything that sacrifices the original integrity of our vows...all a bunch of BS, just like this response. He isn't denying erasing anything or removing any marks, as long he doesn't "power erase" cards, whatever that means.
Good point on the "power erase" observations. Beside what Peter just wrote, he didn't deny using an ordinary eraser by hand to remove that "4" on the Gehrig card.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:01 PM
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Peter, Peter, cardboard dealer
Had a card that was a tweener
Cracked it out and did resend
Two grades higher??? Nuf ced!
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