Video of Sweet Caporal pack opening containing T206 Jordan...real?

[slightlyrounded]

One year ago this video was posted on Youtube and given the relatively few number of views, wondering if it was ever shared with the Net54 community?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtFOJgCdvOg

Are we in agreement that this may indeed be legit? If so, does it give us any new insight into card/pack distribution or timing?

Leon, if there's already another thread on this, feel free to delete/merge (I couldn't find one).

[packs]

Just my opinion but doesn't look like a card that's never seen the light of day to me.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by packs

Just my opinion but doesn't look like a card that's never seen the light of day to me.

+1

Looked kind of hokey to me, but what do I know?

[rdwyer]

Total BS. Tax stamp is completely wrong.

[Eric72]

I find it hard to believe someone would open a genuine sealed pack with the relative carelessness they exhibited.

[Jason]

I want to believe lol.

[tedzan]

#1.....the card has a Sweet Cap Factory #42 back. Do we know what Factory # is on that Sweet Cap pack ? If they do NOT coincide, it's a FAKE !

#2.....where is the 2nd card in the pack ? Two T206's were usually inserted in these packs (one on each side of the slide-shell).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[rdwyer]

Movement is so fast you can't see anything clearly, except for the parts he wants you to see. Refuses to show bottom of tax stamp, but doesn't matter because it's a 1920's beyond tax stamp. Refuses to show factory, district & state info. A sealed tax stamp wouldn't let you push it open. No cards were ever issued with this tax stamp!

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Total BS. Tax stamp is completely wrong.

That was my initial thought as well. I assume we'd need to see a '1909' date at the bottom to be real. Is there some further reference you can point us to on this?

Card corners also look to be pretty touched to be pack fresh.

Then again, its seems like a lot of pomp and trouble to fake a pack opening on camera and then leave youtube comments open for questioning as well. Whats the motivation and payoff here?

Weird all around.

[rdwyer]

From John Canfield's site: (NOTE: No CLASS A Cigarettes on top of tax stamp). Amazing how tax stamp unglued itself from the inner slide. Note the difference between the top of each tax stamp.

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Movement is so fast you can't see anything clearly, except for the parts he wants you to see. Refuses to show bottom of tax stamp, but doesn't matter because it's a 1920's beyond tax stamp. Refuses to show factory, district & state info. A sealed tax stamp wouldn't let you push it open. No cards were ever issued with this tax stamp!

At 1:59 of the video you can actually see the bottom.

Originally Posted by rdwyer

From John Canfield's site: (NOTE: No CLASS A Cigarettes on top of tax stamp)

Thanks, this is indeed helpful. From the site:

Series of 1917: Appeared on tax stamps from 1917 through 1920. – note: Series of 1917 tax stamps appearing on 10-cigarette count packs did not have a date on it but rather said “Ten” along the bottom border of the tax stamp.

So....looks like this is a 1917-1920 dated Sweet Cap pack that's been incredibly well preserved and re-packed unless the conventional history on tax stamps is wrong. This also seems to jive with the aluminum paper on the inside which apparently wasn't used in the US prior to 1913.

[rdwyer]

This is 100% FRAUD!!! This jerk should be exposed!!! The rice paper wasn't sealed. Note how when he opened the rice paper with the exacto knife, the left side didn't require any force at all to open the rest of the top fold. (As if it wasn't sealed at all). Deliberately done to deceive!!!

[bmattioli]

It was like watching a 33 rpm album in 78 rpm mode..

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

#1.....the card has a Sweet Cap Factory #42 back. Do we know what Factory # is on that Sweet Cap pack ? If they do NOT coincide, it's a FAKE !

#2.....where is the 2nd card in the pack ? Two T206's were usually inserted in these packs (one on each side of the slide-shell).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

On august 29 1910 they stopped packing two cards (1 fish and 1 ball player) they discontinued packing fish cards and started packing 1 ball player only in Sweet Caporals.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

On august 29 1910 they stopped packing two cards (1 fish and 1 ball player) they discontinued packing fish cards and started packing 1 ball player only in Sweet Caporals.

During the Summer of 1910 (in the middle of the 350 Series) that may have been true. However, the card in this "demonstration" is a SWEET CAP 460 Factory #42 (overprint),
which was issued circa late 1910 with other 460 series cards.

Anyhow, this entire situation is moot, as this so-called "original" SWEET CAP pack is a fake.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Santo10Fan]

OP did not respond to a question about provenance which to me is a red flag. Let alone the container the pack was in, the condition of the card, etc.

[packs]

OP didn't say it was their pack. They linked to a video. YouTube is a platform built on views and likes and subscribers so it would not be unusual for someone to fudge a video like this in search of one or all of those things.

[abothebear]

Using “Jordan” for the card can’t have been an accident.
Would have been a funny gag if he pulled an ‘86 Fleer Jordan from it.

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by Santo10Fan

OP did not respond to a question about provenance which to me is a red flag. Let alone the container the pack was in, the condition of the card, etc.

Definitely not my pack/video nor did I see any questions about provenance? Anyway, came across it trying to date a pack of Murads that I may open (now less inclined) and was looking for opinions.

[rdwyer]

Definitely not my pack/video nor did I see any questions about provenance? Anyway, came across it trying to date a pack of Murads that I may open (now less inclined) and was looking for opinions.

There were no BB type cards in murad boxes. Only non-sport:

Murad Cigarettes American Tobacco Co. T6, T94
Murad Cigarettes S. Anargyros, ATC T51
Murad Cigarettes P. Lorillard T55

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

There were no BB type cards in murad boxes. Only non-sport:

Murad Cigarettes American Tobacco Co. T6, T94
Murad Cigarettes S. Anargyros, ATC T51
Murad Cigarettes P. Lorillard T55

Yep, I'm aware. I collect T51s and am curious how far into the 1910's T51s were inserted into packs. Commonly assumed the run was about 1909-1911 but given the prevalence of the second edition T51s I think it may have been longer.

My tax stamp would date the pack around 1917, so virtually no chance of a card, but that video initially gave me hope that maybe the tax stamp dating we've commonly accepted is actually wrong.....

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

Definitely not my pack/video nor did I see any questions about provenance? Anyway, came across it trying to date a pack of Murads that I may open (now less inclined) and was looking for opinions.

I was referring to the YouTuber OP.

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by packs

OP didn't say it was their pack. They linked to a video. YouTube is a platform built on views and likes and subscribers so it would not be unusual for someone to fudge a video like this in search of one or all of those things.

I was referring to the YouTuber OP.