T206 150 vs 350 & 460 Image Quality: Eddie Plank, A Broken Plate (?), & Everyone Else

[Jobu]

There are subtle differences in the image quality of T206, with the 150 series being superior to the 350 and 460 series overall. However, one card where this 150 vs. 350 difference seems to be on steroids is Eddie Plank. Here is a side-by-side of my 150 with the 350 that just sold at Mile High:

T206 Plank mine vs Mile High comp.jpg

I don't have enough T206 to do a side-by-side of individual cards that were printed in both the 150 series and later. If you have enough cards to add some side-by-side scans of the same pose I would like to see them - even if there isn't a very big difference. Please try to make sure the registration is good on both cards and there isn't any fading on either. I don't think they will show the extreme difference in color, contrast, and clarity that Plank does, otherwise I think the 150 vs 350 and 460 difference would be a much bigger deal across the set than it is.

Assuming the Plank difference is more extreme, is this why people hypothesized that a broken printing plate may have been why his card was pulled? I never thought much about this, but I always had a visual of this theory requiring a cracked/gouged/chipped and therefore unusable plate, but were people actually referring to the change in image quality as the argument for a broken plate?

I am not arguing that Plank was pulled because of damage to the plate - just wondering about the origins of that idea.

[tedzan]

For starters....the "Broken Plate" explanation regarding Plank is a myth that goes back to Circa 1970's.

Years ago, my research indicated that Plank was vehemently anti-tobacco (in any form). And, this is why his T206 card was removed. I posted a thread on Net54 stating this.

Anyhow, here is my SWEET CAP 150 Eddie Plank compared with my Hal Chase.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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[RCFire82]

Oh you guys with your Eddie Planks...

[Pat R]

A lot of people claim the difference in the quality/clarity of the images between the 150's and 350's is from the wearing down of the plates. I'm not a believer of that theory, if that was true you would see some of the 150's that were printed near the end that look like the 350's and I've never noticed anything like that and with the Plank's I don't think his 150 plate got used enough to come close to wearing it down.
I think it probably has to do with using a different press or printing method or something else.

To me the difference in the 150 and 350 Cicottes is similar to the planks.

[IMG][/IMG]

I have quite a few 150/350's that I'll post later

[wolf441]

I wonder if it could have anything to do with the amount/quality of the inks used?

It seems like something that a large corporate enterprise would look into during a product life cycle, using either less ink or ink of a cheaper quality to save $$ on the printing process...

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by tedzan

For starters....the "Broken Plate" explanation regarding Plank is a myth that goes back to Circa 1970's.

Years ago, my research indicated that Plank was vehemently anti-tobacco (in any form). And, this is why his T206 card was removed. I posted a thread on Net54 stating this.

Anyhow, here is my SWEET CAP 150 Eddie Plank compared with my Hal Chase.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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Ted, Do u know which part of your Plank got restored? If it was re-colored or somehow enhanced the appearance, your Plank can't really use it as a comparison.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I wonder if it could have anything to do with the amount/quality of the inks used?

It seems like something that a large corporate enterprise would look into during a product life cycle, using either less ink or ink of a cheaper quality to save $$ on the printing process...

I don't think it was less ink or a cheaper ink Steve, I think it might have been something like a faster or larger and maybe new press.

Here are a few more 150/350 pairs, all the 150's are on the left and the 350's are on the right

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[brass_rat]

Great thread, Bryan -- and congrats on such an outstanding Plank 150 example.

I've often noticed a prominent in the 150 vs 350 green Cobbs as well, but it's not as dramatic as the Plank.

Those are some good comparisons, Pat.

Steve

[Luke]

I'm not sure it adds much to the discussion, but I wrote this little article a while back and it has a few scans comparisions:

https://www.thatt206life.com/2016/11...-look-to-them/

[3-2-count]

Not all 350 series T206's are as washed out as much as that Authentic Plank is which sold in Mile Highs auction recently.

I've seen other T206 Planks with a 350 series back which have far better color & registration than that example displays.

Being that it is an older slab/submission maybe it's had more exposure to direct light in some way effecting its image. Just my two cents.

That being said, the 150 series is my back of choice!

[Jobu]

Thanks for those additions Pat and Luke. Luke, good article that I missed! As to your question of when in the 350 run whatever caused this would have happened, I would think it would have had to have been at the start of the run given that there are so few 150 Planks.

I'll poke Steve B and see if he has any thoughts on a potential cause here.

[darwinbulldog]

It's distinct enough that I can generally tell if a T206 is a 150 or not from a front scan, but the Planks are on another level altogether, more like Type 1 vs. Type 3 Coupons.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Ted, Do u know which part of your Plank got restored? If it was re-colored or somehow enhanced the appearance, your Plank can't really use it as a comparison.

Chris

Four corners of my Plank were restored. I've no problem with that. I waited years to acquire this Plank to complete my SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set. That is what I
love about completing sets. You have certain goals to attain. I've a nice-looking image. And I don't mind that it is graded an "A". Hey, an "A" in this case = "Affordable".

The closest comparable image to Plank in the 150/350 series is Crandall. The majority of the Crandall cards have a lighter blue colored background. And, a few others have
a darker blue background similar to my Plank.






TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Pat R]

A few more 150/350's

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


The Blue on the Crandall does vary quite a bit
the 350 is in the middle
[IMG][/IMG]

[steve B]

Alot of things can affect color or how we perceive it. The perception bit is more on modern cards, but can affect T206s a little.

The plates do wear over time, and on a large print run may be used until the quality of the image becomes unacceptable. A century plus after the fact it's almost impossible to tell if a difference is plate wear or something else.
The worn plates (actually thick stone slabs) were then resurfaced and and the next job or the same would be laid out with transfers printed from a master plate.

Most other tings mentioned may aslo contribute to the appearance being different. Inking levels, how the press operator that day mixed the ink, how much water was used to dampen the plate, and how much it did or did not dry between wetting and inking.

The makeup of the inks could also be different. Many inks were a colorant in a hardening base. Some bases harden glossy, others are less glossy. And the years around 1910 were also times of change from natural dyes and colorants to chemical ones which were less expensive. Bright red is probably cochineal, the pink probably one of the chemical colorants.

One of the biggest reasons is one we've occasionally touched on, that the art and halftones were reworked between the 150s and 350s.

If you look at the scans Pat posted, you can see some small but clear differences between the 150's and 350's.
On Davis, where his hip shows on the right - the halftone dot pattern is very solid on the 150, and faint on the 350. There are also differences in where the undrlying colors like light blue, gray and peach appear under the halftone on the uniform.

On Dooin, the halftone is very solid on the left side of the face on 150.
The lines indicating the jersey opening are more well defined compared to the 350.
The P on the uniform is halftone on the 150, but more solid on the 350. That difference could be plate wear or water/inking levels. But it could also be a difference in the masters.

Crandall has lots of differences. And looking at the lower right, the two 150's are also different from each other.

In general, the black layer on the 350's is less opaque than on the 150's. This may be a change from carbon (either lampblack or carbonblack) as the colorant to a chemical colorant. And that change may be why they changed the halftones between series.

[MVSNYC]

I think one or two people above have mentioned the Green Cobb being a similar example...150 series much bolder.

[Pat R]

Another difference between some of the 150/350's is the captions, A lot of the 350 captions are thicker/heavier than the 150's, some are subtle like Ball and others are quite noticeable like J.J. Clarke

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Pat R]

I don't know if the difference is because of a change in the way the 350's were printed compared to the 150's or if it has to do with the layers of colors on each particular subject but the magenta shift on the Gilbert also shifted the Red on his belt, sleeves, collar, and hat but it didn't on the Ritchey.

The Schlei and Gilbert are PD150's and the Ritchey is a PD350.

[IMG][/IMG]

[steve B]

On Gilbert, the pink is only in the sky, and not shifted* The shift is the bright red.
On Ritchey, the bright red is where it should be, and the pink is shifted.


*And I thought that pink was always under bright red to enhance it further.... Now I'm going to be wasting a bunch of time looking for a gilbert with pink under the bright red....

[DeanH3]

Cy Young is another one that you can tell the difference between the two. Most 350's aren't as bold.

[chjh]

I love the Plank card in any condition. Even though the Cobb's are my favorite, I think the Plank is definitely the coolest card after Wagner.

[mrvster]

Beautiful card and congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3-2-count]

Thanks for sharing Chris.

Great Plank…..

[chjh]

It is definitely more faded than the 150

[chriskim]

Congrats Chris! A Nice Plank that you got for yourself!

Nowadays, smart phone can take better pics than scanner. I have stopped using my scanner and don't even want to talk about how much more convenience using a smart phone to take/send pics.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by chjh

I was the buyer of the Mile High Plank used as a comparison in the opening post on this thread. I've received the card and am uploading a high res picture.

It's a good discussion - 150 vs 350.

I love the Plank card in any condition. Even though the Cobb's are my favorite, I think the Plank is definitely the coolest card after Wagner.

Welcome aboard, Chris (chjh)

First of all, thanks very much for posting your thread..... "The Rise of T206". I read it over twice, as I found it exceptionally interesting.

While we're on the subject of T206 Plank's, Eddie Plank (and the Blue Hal Chase) are my favorite's of my T206 set(s). I especially favor
the Blue background cards.

Furthermore, I've never been "excited" over the Wagner card. Plank was a "cool" Southpaw pitcher; and, was vehemently anti-tobacco.
Mr. Wagner was a a great Shortstop, but did smoke and chew tobacco. I don't buy his "story". He should have set an example.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Pat R]

I found a new print flaw recently and it's an "elite 11" timeframe print flaw.

It's a white spot on Konetchy's sleeve on his forearm

here are the numbers and backs that I found it on

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

it's only the 2nd out of many (100+) print flaws that I've found on both a 150 and 350 series back the other was Tom Jones an elite 11 subject and that flaw was also only found on PD150, EPDG, and PD350.

I'd like to do a hi-res group scan of the PD150 and 350 flaws next to a couple of PD350's without the flaw to see if Steve is right about the possibility that some of the 350 backs were printed on leftover 150 fronts, I think this flaw would give us a pretty definitive answer.
If anyone has a konetchy with this flaw that they would sell I would like to buy it for the research.

[mrvster]

Love your research!!! you have added so much over the years

[steve B]

The light blue areas in the grass on the right side also seem consistent.

[mrvster]

you are another expert that has contributed so so much over the years....

[steve B]

Thanks!

I'm not quick with looking up tons of cards, Pat is way faster.
Sometimes it's like I point out a new rabbit hole and he's standing right there with the miners headlamp and caving gear ready to go.

It works well, and I've thought pretty much all along that it's going to take a bunch of people to figure stuff out.