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Old 01-05-2008, 09:41 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Dave F

Thanks to Paul's peice with Mr. Carter it got me to wondering a bit about the hobby "legends". Just how many of them do actually have cards in slabs that are identifiable? I'm assuming there are no such cards slabbed that would be identifiable to Mr. Burdick as that was quite a while ago and I would guess the cards that are known to be his at this point are on display somewhere.

But out of the ones that do have their own slabs, Mr. Carter, Mr. Nagy and such...is there one of them you would value moreso having the cards of? Would you pay an extra 10% or so just for the slab of a Lionel Carter? And where do you rank the current top collectors among the old timers? Say a Don Louchios?

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:07 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Bill Todd

Dave,

I don't know about the others, but Buck Barker sometimes used a handstamp to identify his items. I have a National Copper Plate image of Doyle with a Barker stamp. And yes, I do think it increases the value (though it would certainly earn the dreaded "MK" designation from PSA, and would get a knocked-down grade from SGC).

Bill

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:16 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Marc S.

I don't think that many of the "top" current collectors have pedigreed slabs. It is mainly done for the purposes of selling -- and, as much evidence points to, it generally works. (with an exception noted to Mr. X)

That said, many of the current top collectors may not even have many of their cards slabbed. Keith Olbermann, who has one of the most extensive 19th century collection, has very, very few cards in slabs. There may be some exceptions to that, such as his Doyle card.

Others, like Larry Fritsch (RIP), it's unclear what may happen to his collection, but he definitely had two Lindstrom cards at one point, as well as rumoured to have multiple Doyle cards.

There are others I know of that have very extensive and comprehensive collections that are (generally) not in slabs, nor do they plan to be in the forseeable future.

Marc

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:24 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: barrysloate

There is a major difference between today's collector and the legends of the past.

Guys like Frank Nagy and Lionel Carter were average working men who had an incredible passion for collecting cards.

Today's major collector, on the other hand, has to be very wealthy. It would be extremely difficult to amass a major collection today without having a lot of expendable cash. They are still a passionate group, but today it takes money to build a great collection.

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:45 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Eric B

Unfortunately, very few cards in the Burdick collection are on display. They are locked away and only legitimate researchers/authors are allowed to view them. There is a great article written by a guy named Vrechek that you can google up about his experience viewing the collection.

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:48 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Jason L

I have foudn that it takes a good chunk of dough to build even a wimpy collection!

Since I have only just discovered this rarified air of the collecting world that we call Vintage a couple of years ago, may I throw in a semi-hijack and ask the Board for a collective list of who is considered to be a Hobby Legend?

It would be interesting to see a roster of Who and why!

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:48 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Alan

Well said Barry !!!

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Old 01-05-2008, 11:00 AM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Steve Murray

that PSA and SGC will knock down this "Legend" card:

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Old 01-05-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: boxingcardman

I think provenance is fun. Some of Burdick's cards have his name and/or "logo" (an ornate B) stamped on them. They surface from time to time but are rarely identified as such since most folks haven't seen his logo stamp.

I was privileged to view some of the collection for my boxing book research. Here is a link to that discussion:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=153652&messageid=1081090494

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Old 01-05-2008, 12:52 PM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: Bob

In speaking with "old-time" collectors, I was surprised that there are so many cards which are unslabbed and ungraded in huge collections, especially PCL stuff like D310s, D311s, Zeenuts, etc.

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Old 01-05-2008, 01:55 PM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: davidcycleback

Widespread professional grading of baseball cards is a recent phenomenon. 10 years ago, it was the norm to buy and sell raw cards, even on the internet. The buyer checked out the card and, if he disagreed with the grade, he returned it. Asking for an expert's opinion about authenticity and alterations seemed reasonable, but it was always my idea that if a collector needed to pay someone to tell him whether or not the card in his hand is Very Good as advertised, he should probably be in a different hobby or the money would be better spent on a beginner's book.

I should note that I understand that grading is used to check for authenticity and for alterations and to facilitate sales between strangers hundreds of miles away from each other, so I acknowledge its practical purposes. If a potential buyer is wary about the grading abilities or honesty of a stranger 1,000 miles away, I understand that. You won't be able to give your in-personal judgment of the grade until after you've paid the money.

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Old 01-05-2008, 02:15 PM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: barrysloate

David- funny you should mention that. I was looking something up from one of my previous auctions and pulled out a catalog from 2004. I was shocked to see that virtually every card I sold was raw and only a handful were graded. And that was less than four years ago.

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Old 01-05-2008, 02:42 PM
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Default The hobby legends

Posted By: leon

I am not sure there are too many slabs, currently, with the names of the pioneers on them or other names that are identifiable ie....Skydash (for a newer one), Nagy, Carter etc. I can only think of those and maybe 1-2 others. I do think the naming should be saved for special situations..... Burdick's collection was donated to the Met so none of those are slabbed. Most of those are tucked away and out of site, according to recent reports. I would pay a tad more for a card from one of the pioneers because of the provenance. As far as ranking older collectors vs newer collectors, that is something I don't think I would care to personally do. Old and new alike could very well have the same amount of passion. As Barry pointed out the main difference in yesterday and today is the amount of money it takes to collect. To amass a really nice collection today takes more resources than many collectors have. That being said there are still areas that can be collected for not an arm and a leg. Strip cards, Exhibits, certain E and T cards, and many others can be had on shoestring budgets. Finding good buys and bargains is certainly part of the fun. As most know I have only been collecting a very short time, relatively speaking (10-11 yrs) and the prices have gone up exponentially from what they were when I started. I do think the market has calmed down a bit in the last year....again, as has been stated previously. The creme de la creme are still bringing record prices though.....breast regards



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