NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-31-2004, 02:23 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Robert Plancich

In MastroNet's November 2001 auction a Joe DiMaggio 1941/1942 game-used bat sold for $18,336.75 (auction Lot #438). Under the description titled "Comments" it states that "This is a perfect DiMaggio game bat in all respects; one which was used by 'Jolten Joe' both at the peak of his powers and, very possibly, during his legendary hitting streak in the summer of '41." Now it is quite obvious the incredible difference in price that a "real" DiMaggio "streak" bat goes for $350,000.00 versus one that "very possibly" was used by the "Yankee Clipper". Both of these bats were authenticated by Dave Bushing & Dan Knoll with the only difference being that Dave Bushing & Dan Knoll owned and authenticated the "real" streak bat. However, this is not going to be the focus of this post.

What I find rather interesting lies in the description of Lot #438. Half way through the lot description it states that "Game bats are often a source of both joy and frustration for collectors. The joy stems from the fact they can, for all intents and purposes, be authenticated with certainty by their very markings and our knowledge of the actual manufacturing process. The frustration arises from the fact that certain manufacturing labeling periods extend over a large span of time, thus leaving the collector with little knowledge as to exactly what season the bat was actually used in by the player. Fortunately, that uncertainty with regard to dating is not the case with this particular bat due to information available through the H&B order documents. An examination of those shipping records indicate that this particular DiMaggio model bat measuring 36" in length and marked 35 1/2 oz. on the end, was only ordered by DiMaggio during a two year period 1941-1942. H&B records provide the exact breakdown of his four bat orders for that time period as follows: 1) six bats on 07/1/41. 2) two bats on 9/18/41, which were ordered for the World Series. 3) twelve bats on 3/27/42. 4) two bats on 7/1/42 which were ordered for the All Star Game. While it obviously cannot be stated with certainty that DiMaggio used this bat during his historic hitting streak that possibility (a 27% chance, as the order record attests) certainly exists. There is also an 18% chance this bat was used by DiMaggio in either the 1941 World Series or the 1942 All Star Game. In the field of bat collecting the ability to narrow the time frame down to a specific year or two, such as in this case, is usually far more than one can reasonably hope for."

It should be noted that in the case of the $350,000.00 DiMaggio "streak" bat that Dave Bushing & Dan Knoll owned and authenticated they were able to narrow the time frame down to the exact week that their bat could only have been used (07/11/41 -07/17/41) and thus be authentic and game-used. It's really amazing what one can do when one is properly motivated.

However, what I have a problem with (besides this DiMaggio "streak" bat) are the records and the percentages that are provided as fact and based upon the H&B Professional Bat Order Records (PBOR's). I have done some of my own research and come up with totally and significantly different percentages than the esteemed Dave Bushing & Dan Knoll did.

I was wondering if any of the Board members would be willing to contact Dave Bushing and verify the above information with him. I tried and he continues to ignore my emails. Dave Bushing's email address is DBushing1@aol.com. Also, I was wondering if anyone happens to know how I can contact Dan Knoll. I have asked Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen for Knoll's email address numerous times and they simply refuse to give it to me.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-31-2004, 02:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Julie

in which auction did a DiMaggio streak bat sell for $350,000? The one just past, or an earlier one?

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-31-2004, 02:43 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Andy Baran

STALKER?

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-31-2004, 03:34 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Joe P.

Ignorance is Bliss.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-31-2004, 03:35 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Joe P.

For those that love Bliss.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-31-2004, 03:37 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Robert Plancich

I will be posting soon about some of the other "experts" such as James Spence and Steve Grad from PSA/DNA. But when it comes to game-used memorabilia Dave Bushing is the Pope.

By the way, the $350,000.00 DiMaggio "streak" bat was sold in MastroNet's April 2004 auction. You will find this "historically significant piece of ....lumber" listed on the very last page of their auction catalog.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-31-2004, 03:52 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: PASJD

I do not have the catalog, did they purport to place the "streak" bat within a particular week on the basis of any additional information other than the type of information that earlier they said could only be used to give a much rougher approximation of when it was used? If there was additional information then the comparison may not be valid, but if there was no additional information this certainly appears disturbing.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-31-2004, 04:25 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: hankron

Robert, explain how the second auction descripition ('The streak') is wrong. Obviously you imply that that the second auction description is wrong or bad, but you have not explained why the second description is wrong or bad or why the bat is not from the streak.

Please explain your case.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-31-2004, 04:36 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Scott

Robert recently responded to one of my emails in which I asked why he wasn't responding to board posts. He was checking the "autoresponse" feature (shows up under 'options' at bottom if you are logged on), a feature which I had never paid attention to in the past. He relied on starting new posts each time he had something to say, then waiting for automated email responses, rather than checking the threads for responses.

Autoresponse lets you know when someone has responded to your post and you can then send emails if the responder has used a valid email, which many of us don't - I received several emails from Robert recently and they were very civil...at least I think that's the way "autoresponse" works. Perhaps everyone else on the board besides me has already been using this?

In any case, when I explained that he was getting lots of reply posts, he said he would go in and check them.

*** Remember - tonight is "amateur" night, so be safe if driving. And HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-31-2004, 04:44 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Dan B

SCD is going to be putting some hobby authenticators on the "Hotseat" in the next few issues if anyone has questions for them they can be emailed to the SCD editor.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-31-2004, 05:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Joe P.

Right Here on the Internet.

I guarantee you the possibility of REAL HEAT, right here in River City.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-31-2004, 05:38 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: PASJD

Robert Preston/Prof. Harold Hill would have been a master at selling "game used bats."

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-31-2004, 06:04 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Dan B

That's why I put Hotseat in quotations. I doubt it will get very hot. I'll reserve judgement though. I would love to see Bushing explain the Ichiro bat and the Seaver glove. Those are just two examples that should NEVER happen. Just a minimal amount of homework on either of those would have confirmed they were not authentic.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-31-2004, 07:53 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Joe P.

PASJD,
This is off topic, and I apologize to all, but you asked for it.

A few centuries ago, I use to play for the Broadway Show softball league. they also had a bowling league during one nite of the week.
After the last curtain of the nite, everyone would meet at this alley and let it all hang out.

We were all on teams that represented shows on Broadway so it was a blast and the ever present competition was always there.
One night I found myself playing against Robert Preston and his team, (can't remember the name of show) It was his turn, and he was in the mental preparations before his shot.
As I watched him, and I tried to time my comment so that it would be just before he had reached his mental comfort zone - and I said:

"Digby, if you make that Strike, I will give you a Vikings funeral."

If you have never seen the 1939 movie classic "Beau Geste," you wont know what I'm talking about, ... but he did, he was Digby.
He stopped in the middle of his first stride, turned around, looked at me with the winning smile that he was famous for, and we both broke out laughing.
This was in the early sixties somewhere, and he couldn't believe that anyone would dig back to 1939 to try to affect a game in the early '60's.

He didn't get the strike.

A real great guy, and one hell of an actor.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-31-2004, 08:16 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: PASJD

Joe: Great story. A great film, Beau Geste, at least a PSA 8 (of course GAI would automatically bump it to an 8.5 and a dealer would charge double for it), but then again how many films with Gary Cooper weren't. As for The Music Man, it's as perfect a match of actor and role as I have ever seen/heard. It was shocking to me they tried to do a revival. Some things should just be retired for all time because there is no point -- and Shirley Jones was incomparable too.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-31-2004, 08:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Julie

Gary Cooper? O.K. If you say so...Couldn't you have said Gregory Peck, or even Clark Gable? I am completely unaware that Cooper can act. Will someone recommend a movie in which he does?

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-31-2004, 08:46 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Joe P.

I've put shows together at Madison Sqr Garden, and Lincoln Center, but this one is your idea.

Why don't you convince our patron saint Bill to extend an invitation to all, and any authenticators that feel that they can field the batted pelotas, without committing an error this time.

Think about it.
The internet can be one hell of an arena for this.
A chance for the Authenticators to sound authentic.
A chance to show their stuff.
A chance to compete against other Authenticators.
In the business world you have to go after the business.
Bring them to this forum.
No meek sheep here.
There are questions begging to be asked.
Some that might not even be expected.
Bring us the head of BARABAS.
Let this be the testing grounds for the confidence of the most confident Authenticators.
Send out the invitations.
Who will be the first.

Personally, I doubt whether any Authenticator will accept, but what a hell of a show it would be.

Great idea Dan.
Give it a shot.
Who knows?
Maybe we'll find some pelotas in Mudville?

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-31-2004, 09:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Robert Plancich

The "streak" bat that was sold in MastroNet's April 2004 for $350,496.00 purported came from a shipment of bats that DiMaggio ordered on 07.01.41. This shipment included 6 bats. The bats arrived after the All Star game that was played on 07.08.41. Since they had the next day off the regular season games didn't start until 07.10.41. DiMaggio's hitting streak ended 07.17.41. The letter from Tommy Henrich attesting to the bat's authenticity states that the bat specificially came from this 07.01.41 shipment of bats to DiMaggio.Therefore this bat could have only been usd for that one week, and only one week for the bat to have been authentic. Now my question is how did Henrich who is I believe 93 years old and who supposedly had this bat in his attic for over 60 years have complete recall of the 07.01.41 order date particulary on a shipment of bats that were sent to DiMaggio? Someone had to feed him that information. MastroNet also made available an hour video tape wherein Dave Bushing interviews Henrich and people that have seen that interview say that he is lead into every question. For example, Dave Bushing would ask a question like is this the bat that came from the 07.01.41 shipment of bats to DiMaggio and Henrich would answer "Yes".

Additionally, you have to buy into the fact that DiMaggio hit with the "label down" during this particular week in his streak which is highly unlikely because he was very superstitious. I spoke with Dominic DiMaggio and he told me that Joe (like everyone else with the possible exception of Williams and some others) hit with the "label up". This becomes very important because if Joe hits with the "label up" the ball marks on this bat are on the wrong side of the label. However, the ball marks are on the correct side of the label for a left-handed hitter that hits with the "label up". It just so happens that Henrich is a left-handed hitter and was known to have borrowed one of these bats from Joe.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-31-2004, 09:13 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Robert Plancich

If you send me your email address I will forward to you the detailed email that I sent to Dave Bushing about this bat. The email will include the actual number of bats that DiMaggio.

If that is not acceptable then could someone tell me how I can post/import documents, letters from H&B and MastroNet attorneys, emails to and from MastroNet on this bat onto the board because some of this stuff is really rather interesting reading. And just so that you all don't think that I'm picking on Dave Bushing who I really don't have a problem with I will show you emails from from in my opinion public enemy #1 - which is PSA. If you think I was stalking Bushing then you should get a real kick out of my battles with PSA, James Spence, Steve Grad and Joe Orlando.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-31-2004, 10:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: PASJD

From the bat itself, due to its physical characteristics, the best anyone can do is to match it to a series of shipments of bats with those same physical characteristics over a two year or so period. There is nothing on the bat itself indicating WHICH shipment it came from. So far, so good? But here is where I get confused. Was Henrich just brought in after the fact to "authenticate" the bat because he happened to still be alive, which sounds totally bogus, or was the bat actually in Henrich's possession all these years? If it was in his possession, and I think Robert's history said it was, then why couldn't it be the case that Henrich took it from Dimaggio or was given it when the streak ended as a keepsake, in which case it sounds highly credible? He may be 93, but if he remembers that those were the circumstances under which he came to have the bat, then why would anyone doubt him? So my further question is what is Henrich's explanation for how he came to possess the bat, it seems to me that may be where the critical evidence lies here.

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-31-2004, 10:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Dan B.

I think the bat was found by Henrich's daughter who must of contacted someone who put her in touch with Bushing. DiMaggio wasn't exactly known for being generous. IMO he did not give one of his streak bats away to anyone. He barely gave his own son the time of day.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-31-2004, 11:16 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: dennis

in the SABR national pastime #19(1999) "the last yankee" written by tom henrich in the section on the streak henrich says when dimaggio bat was stolen in between games of a double header(in wash.) during the streak "nobody knew it had happened until i stepped into the battrers box in the 2nd inning. dimag yelled at me, hey tom you have my bat. i asked for time and i walked toward joe to show him my bat.it was a dimaggio model,but it was my bat." he goes on to say he used a louisville slugger d29 model just like his(dimag). so i have to ask a simple question here if henrich used a dimag model does this mean it was engraved joe dimag or it was the same model engraved tom henrich???? i think if the latter were true i could see how a dimag bat could be found in henrichs attic.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-31-2004, 11:26 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

Posted By: Joe P.

Joe D. was my childhood hero.
As a Yankees fan from the early '40's he was the main part of the package.
Life is made up of many trails and experiences.
Although I never attended the Lawrenceville School in NJ, I got to know some of the coaches very well.
One of them was a baseball, swimming and football line coach at the school.
He and his wife were like my second set of parents. .... may they RIP.
It was while at a game that I got to meet and watch a short, stocky, inside lineman with an identifiable Joe D. schnoz play football.
The kid played one hell of a game.
The relationship between Joe D. and Jr, is one of the saddest story's ever told.

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Common" Players with Interesting Stories? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 40 08-19-2007 04:17 PM
Stories about great "Finds" Please Share Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 30 04-17-2007 09:42 PM
screw down holders. Any horror stories? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 04-14-2007 12:09 PM
De-stabilization horror stories - any examples? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 02-10-2005 07:21 PM
The Joe DiMaggio "Streak" Bat Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 21 01-09-2005 11:56 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:50 AM.


ebay GSB