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  #51  
Old 11-29-2022, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raulus View Post
I mean… 6 of 10 are younger than I am, and I’m not that old.

Not sure where the magic of 30 years comes from, but I would probably cast a wider net when it comes to recency when discussing a hobby that is at/approaching 150 years old now.
I think of 6 as newer cards too.
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  #52  
Old 11-30-2022, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The 89 UD Griffey ushered in and is the symbol of the modern high end card.
We apparently lived opposite lives in this hobby in the late 80’s. I remember near zero talk among collectors of the Griffey…. Jordan was like a tsunami. Gretsky, Montana, Jordan…. Clemons, Puckett, Gooden from the update were all the rage… FF Ripken was also always in the conversation. Everyone wanted the 84’ Donruss factory sets too. IDK…..Maybe it was a regional thing.
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  #53  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nwobhm View Post
We apparently lived opposite lives in this hobby in the late 80’s. I remember near zero talk among collectors of the Griffey…. Jordan was like a tsunami. Gretsky, Montana, Jordan…. Clemons, Puckett, Gooden from the update were all the rage… FF Ripken was also always in the conversation. Everyone wanted the 84’ Donruss factory sets too. IDK…..Maybe it was a regional thing.
It definitely was not a regional thing. I was setting up at shows across the country and it was all about the 1986 Fleer Jordan RC and 1986 Fleer basketball in 1989/90.

The Upper Deck Griffey was the new speculation in 1989, but many in the hobby were uncertain of Upper Decks future. It took a while for the Griffey to catch on, but by then Jordan was king of the hobby.
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  #54  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
84 FU Clemens and 86TT Tiffany Bonds have to be there for me, PEDs or no PEDs.
The Gooden was the card in the Fleer Update. It was the first 100.00 modern card. That card was the hobby in 1985-86.
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  #55  
Old 11-30-2022, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Off topic, but why not

My Top 10 baseball cards from the 1980s

1989 UD Griffey
1985 Topps USA McGwire
1984 Donruss Mattingly
1986 Topps Traded Bonds
1982 Topps Traded Ripken
1983 Topps Boggs
1980 Topps Henderson
1985 Topps Goodin
1987 Donruss Maddux
1989 Fleer Ripken FF

Other cool ones
1984 Topps Strawberry
1983 Topps Gwynn
1985 Topps USA Conseco
This is my list. These were all the card to have at some point during the 80s.

1980 Topps Henderson
1982 Topps Traded Ripken
1984 Donruss Mattingly
1984 Fleer Update Gooden
1984 Fleer Update Clemens
1985 Topps McGwire
1986 Donruss Canseco
1987 Fleer Will Clark
1989 Fleer FF B Ripken
1989 Upper Deck Griffey
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  #56  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I think the list tends too modern, but I concede that many of the cards I would put on a top 10 list likely aren’t proper for an all time iconic, defining iconic as most widely recognized (definition 2 of Websters).

Here is my LAYMAN most iconic list

52 Topps Mantle
T206 Wagner
1987 Fleer Jordan
1989 UD Griffey
T206 red/green Cobb (Horner image)
1933 Goudey Ruth Batting
1980 Topps Bird-Magic
1954 Aaron
1914 CJ Joe Jackson
1979 OPC Gretzky

My Baseball card collector most iconic

T206 Wagner
BN Ruth
1952 Topps Mantle
M101-4/5 Ruth
T210 Jackson
T206 red/green Cobb
1914 CJ Mathewson
T206 Plank
1933 Goudey Lajoie
1914 CJ Jackson

Honorable mention
1933 Goudey yellow Ruth
1948/9 Leaf Paige
1948/9 Robinson
1963 Rose
1968 Ryan
These lists are close to my thoughts to me the Cracker Jack Cards needs to be mentioned and Joe Jackson is widely known. and the 1989 Griffey needs to be on it because that was the .card of that Generation and in some-ways kicked off the new look. the Topps Bird/Magic Card great card not sure it is that high on the list but I can live with it
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1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
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1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
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  #57  
Old 11-30-2022, 01:16 PM
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To be sure I have a reasonable idea of what iconic is, it seems to boil down to being famous, influential and recognizable. With that definition in mind:

T206 Cobb portrait (red or green)
T206 Honus Wagner
1933 Goudey Ruth (heck if I know, choose one)
1941 Dimaggio
1941 Ted Williams
1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson
1951 Bowman Mays
1952 Topps Mantle
1954 Topps Hank Aaron
1968 Topps Nolan Ryan
1986 Fleer Jordan
1989 UD Griffey Jr.

I know I went over 10 with my listed 12. Yes, perhaps a bit vintage biased vs. modern. I struggled with not having a Gehrig, I suppose the '34 Goudey Yellow would be the one.
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  #58  
Old 12-01-2022, 10:49 PM
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LeBron on the list with Russell, Kareem, Namath, Orr and Howe off ??
I would even give Wilt the nod over him.
At least Barry Bonds wasn't mentioned.
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  #59  
Old 12-01-2022, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrreality68 View Post
These lists are close to my thoughts to me the Cracker Jack Cards needs to be mentioned and Joe Jackson is widely known. and the 1989 Griffey needs to be on it because that was the .card of that Generation and in some-ways kicked off the new look. the Topps Bird/Magic Card great card not sure it is that high on the list but I can live with it
I agree with Cracker Jack. I learned about CJ in 1991 as a 5yo when they were putting the minis into boxes. From then on I have considered them iconic.

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  #60  
Old 12-01-2022, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nwobhm View Post
We apparently lived opposite lives in this hobby in the late 80’s. I remember near zero talk among collectors of the Griffey…. Jordan was like a tsunami. Gretsky, Montana, Jordan…. Clemons, Puckett, Gooden from the update were all the rage… FF Ripken was also always in the conversation. Everyone wanted the 84’ Donruss factory sets too. IDK…..Maybe it was a regional thing.
Were you in Chicago? If Jordan was such a tsunami in the card world, why did Fleer's basketball offerings basically flop? The Griffey was everywhere - that's why UD printed more of it.
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  #61  
Old 12-02-2022, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by todeen View Post
I agree with Cracker Jack. I learned about CJ in 1991 as a 5yo when they were putting the minis into boxes. From then on I have considered them iconic.
Nice! Same, I collected as many of those mini CJ as I could when I was a kid, still have them in a box.
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  #62  
Old 12-02-2022, 02:54 AM
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I think his list is perfect. I would place the exact same cards probably in the exact same order if I were to come up with my list blind. Even his honorable mentions are spot on. Well done, I say. Solid list.
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  #63  
Old 12-02-2022, 10:55 AM
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Were you in Chicago? If Jordan was such a tsunami in the card world, why did Fleer's basketball offerings basically flop? The Griffey was everywhere - that's why UD printed more of it.
Jordan was a tsunami in 1988-1989. Fleer's basketball offerings didn't flop. They were a good seller, similar to Topps Football and Hockey products of the time and Fleer kept making them.

Upper Deck Griffeys were everywhere in 1989 because that is all that Upper Deck had and as it was a brand new company, they were going to milk it. The 1989 Griffey was just that year's popular rookie and it was only popular until Upper Deck made their high series. Then everyone wanted Jerome Walton. The card everyone really wanted was the 1986 Donruss Jose Canseco. 1988 MVP, 1st 40/40 player, 3x AL Champion 1988-1990, 1989 World Series Champion.
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  #64  
Old 12-02-2022, 11:40 AM
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T206 Wagner
1952 Topps Mantle
1986 F Jordan
1980-81 Magic-Bird
1979-80 Gretzky
1989 UD Griffey
1957 T Russell
1965 T Namath
1966 T Orr
1993 UD Jeter

FWIW, I think Brady and LeBron and Trout are hurt by the sheer variety of RCs they have.
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  #65  
Old 12-02-2022, 11:50 AM
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Tiger woods
Pele

Should be on the list

Last edited by MR RAREBACK; 12-02-2022 at 11:58 AM.
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  #66  
Old 12-02-2022, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Jordan was a tsunami in 1988-1989. Fleer's basketball offerings didn't flop. They were a good seller, similar to Topps Football and Hockey products of the time and Fleer kept making them.
Topps Hockey was a good seller? No way. Fleer's sets flopped. Or have we forgotten all the stories of Fleer's boxes selling for $5?
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  #67  
Old 12-02-2022, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
T206 Wagner
1952 Topps Mantle
1986 F Jordan
1980-81 Magic-Bird
1979-80 Gretzky
1989 UD Griffey
1957 T Russell
1965 T Namath
1966 T Orr
1993 UD Jeter

FWIW, I think Brady and LeBron and Trout are hurt by the sheer variety of RCs they have.
I like this list a lot, but two hockey cards in the top 10? Dunno ahoout that. I'd also bet Alcindor is more widely collected and known than Russ.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-02-2022 at 10:21 PM.
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  #68  
Old 12-02-2022, 10:23 PM
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Were you in Chicago? If Jordan was such a tsunami in the card world, why did Fleer's basketball offerings basically flop? The Griffey was everywhere - that's why UD printed more of it.
In my experience, since the day it was released, the UD Griffey has been an instantly recognizable and consistently popular card, synonymous with the modern hobby. I don't think it was supplanted by anything.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-02-2022 at 10:25 PM.
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  #69  
Old 12-03-2022, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
In my experience, since the day it was released, the UD Griffey has been an instantly recognizable and consistently popular card, synonymous with the modern hobby. I don't think it was supplanted by anything.
I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.
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  #70  
Old 12-03-2022, 09:18 AM
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I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.
Griffey Jr. had been the top pick in the draft in '87 and was the son of a famous baseball player. There was a ton of hype surrounding Griffey Jr., who had just graduated high school.

By putting Griffey Jr. as the #1 card in their first set, UD took a huge gamble that paid off (Topps failed to even include Griffey Jr. in their base '89 set). The card would become the the most-graded card ever (more than 90K just by PSA alone).

The '89 UD had five new innovations: 1) foil-wrapped 2) tamper-evident pack 3) high gloss cards on high quality white paper stock 4) images on both sides
5) a hologram. These cards completely revolutionized the somewhat stale baseball card market, and the '89 UD Griffey Jr. was the poster child of this new era.

The card is a part of pop culture. Griffey Jr. re-enacted the card's pose in a Macklemore's "Downton" video: https://youtu.be/JGhoLcsr8GA?t=104

Last edited by cgjackson222; 12-03-2022 at 11:49 PM.
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  #71  
Old 12-03-2022, 09:57 AM
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I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.
92,000 Griffeys have been graded by PSA as we speak. 22,000 Jordans. I haven't checked Jerome Walton yet.
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  #72  
Old 12-03-2022, 11:32 AM
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92,000 Griffeys have been graded by PSA as we speak. 22,000 Jordans. I haven't checked Jerome Walton yet.
I guess we just have a different memory. After the release of 1989 UD High Series, I can't remember a time where the UD Griffey was the card to have. In 1990 it was Leaf and Frank Thomas, David Justice, and Steve Avery. In 1991 it was Stadium Club. In 1992 it was inserts led by the Frank Thomas Rookie Sensations. In 1993 it was Finest Refractors, especially Ripken and Ryan. In 1994 it was the Red Holoview Die Cuts, especially the A Rod and then the baseball strike happened and the hobby died. Most that kept collecting switched to basketball and that is why Jordan is king of modern followed by Kobe and LeBron.

More Griffeys have been graded because Upper Deck ran the presses in 1989, pumping out as many cards as they could. The Topps Traded, Donruss and Fleer Griffey RCs are also among the most graded cards of all time. It was a matter of production numbers. By the way the 1990 Fleer base Michael Jordan is on the list too. Is that more iconic than his Fleer RC?
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  #73  
Old 12-03-2022, 12:43 PM
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Third year Jackie Robinson card(and not as rare as his cards from previous years) and Leaf was as much a regional issue as Swell and Bond cards. Not a visually attractive card either.

So, the Leaf card is not his rookie card, not rare, and not visually appealing.
What makes it iconic other than being iconically mistaken as his rookie card and iconically being mistaken as being made in 1948? Without those iconic mistakes pounded into people's heads, it wouldn't sniff the list.

Third year Jordan card(and not as rare as his Star Co. cards). This card is quite attractive.
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  #74  
Old 12-03-2022, 12:51 PM
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Jerome Walton was a big card deal, but did Upper Deck set up extra printings of just his card to cash in? Griffey was the #1 card even then. Just not by the margin it is today

PSA POP reports are not reflective whatsoever of popularity in 1989.
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  #75  
Old 12-03-2022, 12:56 PM
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This is my list. These were all the card to have at some point during the 80s.

1980 Topps Henderson
1982 Topps Traded Ripken
1984 Donruss Mattingly
1984 Fleer Update Gooden
1984 Fleer Update Clemens
1985 Topps McGwire
1986 Donruss Canseco
1987 Fleer Will Clark
1989 Fleer FF B Ripken
1989 Upper Deck Griffey
Yeah, that list about covers it.

Even though Pete Rose did not have a card produced in the 1980's that could beat those cards above, Rose cards were the king of the hobby in the 1980's.
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  #76  
Old 12-03-2022, 01:42 PM
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Yeah, that list about covers it.

Even though Pete Rose did not have a card produced in the 1980's that could beat those cards above, Rose cards were the king of the hobby in the 1980's.
This is the cool part of the hobby. We all remember the 80s differently. I can't imagine anyone I knew even wanting a Pete Rose card in the 80s.

I pretty much remember the 80s being very similar to modern now. The dollar amounts were way smaller but it was a game of hot potato with the rookie cards like now.
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  #77  
Old 12-03-2022, 01:47 PM
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Third year Jackie Robinson card(and not as rare as his cards from previous years) and Leaf was as much a regional issue as Swell and Bond cards. Not a visually attractive card either.

So, the Leaf card is not his rookie card, not rare, and not visually appealing.
What makes it iconic other than being iconically mistaken as his rookie card and iconically being mistaken as being made in 1948? Without those iconic mistakes pounded into people's heads, it wouldn't sniff the list.

Third year Jordan card(and not as rare as his Star Co. cards). This card is quite attractive.
My favorite card of all time. Gorgeous. To each his own I guess.
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  #78  
Old 12-03-2022, 02:56 PM
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I like this list a lot, but two hockey cards in the top 10? Dunno ahoout that. I'd also bet Alcindor is more widely collected and known than Russ.
Prices do not bear that out. Russell is far more costly grade for grade. I got a fair Russell for $700 and was thrilled.

On hockey, Gretzky is the card to get. For a 1980 card, even a low grade one goes into three figures, which is akin to the 1986 Fleer MJ. I put in Orr because that is the vintage hockey card. I can see the argument for replacing him with someone else but who? Maybe Brady or LeBron?
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  #79  
Old 12-03-2022, 03:00 PM
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Topps Hockey was a good seller? No way. Fleer's sets flopped. Or have we forgotten all the stories of Fleer's boxes selling for $5?
Oh, I will never, ever forget that! I was living in SF at the time in school and I went to some local card shows. One show in 1987 or 1988, this guy had an entire table of unopened 1986 Fleer basketball and tons of singles and I remember looking it over and thinking "who'd want that crap?"

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Old 12-03-2022, 04:07 PM
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I guess that is why in the fall of 1989, Griffey was the 5th best rookie in the set behind Jerome Walton, Dwight Smith, Jim Abbott and Todd Zeile.
Maybe this is a regional thing? I don't know. But there was never even a moment where the 89 UD Griffey was not the #1 card to own since even before it was released where I grew up. Not just in 1989 either. For years and years thereafter. It was still THE card. I was in card shops almost daily around this time. I had no clue who Jerome Walton or Dwight Smith were. Zero people were collecting those players among my group of friends.
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  #81  
Old 12-03-2022, 04:39 PM
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Prices do not bear that out. Russell is far more costly grade for grade. I got a fair Russell for $700 and was thrilled.

On hockey, Gretzky is the card to get. For a 1980 card, even a low grade one goes into three figures, which is akin to the 1986 Fleer MJ. I put in Orr because that is the vintage hockey card. I can see the argument for replacing him with someone else but who? Maybe Brady or LeBron?
If price is going to be your guidepost then that calls for a completely different list, no?
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  #82  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
Maybe this is a regional thing? I don't know. But there was never even a moment where the 89 UD Griffey was not the #1 card to own since even before it was released where I grew up. Not just in 1989 either. For years and years thereafter. It was still THE card. I was in card shops almost daily around this time. I had no clue who Jerome Walton or Dwight Smith were. Zero people were collecting those players among my group of friends.
Griffey was the guy to get and it wasn’t close.
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  #83  
Old 12-04-2022, 01:14 AM
cardsagain74 cardsagain74 is offline
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Rats' recollection of the '89 UD debate here is much more accurate than anyone else's. Anyone who doesn't doesn't agree with how hot the Jerome Walton was in mid-late '89 either has an awful memory (or wasn't involved in the heart of the junk wax era, in any "region")

I have a July 1990 Beckett in front of me right now. This was well after the '89 UD Ext Zeile, Jim Abbott, and Walton had really cooled off. Prices:

Griffey: up to 18.00, Abbott down to 7.00, and Walton down to 7.50, and Zeile down to 6.50.

So for those who don't remember, the proof is there (about how those cards were on a similar level in months prior). I may see if I can find another Beckett from late '89 and compare more
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Old 12-04-2022, 07:41 AM
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rats60 rats60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
Maybe this is a regional thing? I don't know. But there was never even a moment where the 89 UD Griffey was not the #1 card to own since even before it was released where I grew up. Not just in 1989 either. For years and years thereafter. It was still THE card. I was in card shops almost daily around this time. I had no clue who Jerome Walton or Dwight Smith were. Zero people were collecting those players among my group of friends.
It definitely wasn't a regional thing. Jerome Walton was $15, Dwight Smith was $12, Jim Abbott was $12 and Todd Zeile was $10. Griffey was only $8 and wasn't selling. Upper Deck was running the presses making those little boxed high number sets, not Griffeys then. I was breaking them and travelling to shows across the country. That is all modern collectors wanted, the high number rookie cards and Nolan Ryan in a Rangers uniform throwing the football.

If you didn't know who Jerome Walton and Dwight Smith were, you must not have been following baseball in 1989. Jerome Walton was NL Rookie of the Year. Dwight Smith finished 2nd. They were the 2 rookies that led the Cubs to the NL East Championship and the NLCS. They were the hottest rookies in baseball, not the guy who led his team to 6th place in the AL West and finished 3rd in AL ROY voting. I guess if you and your friends didn't watch postseason games, watch ESPN Sports Center or read the sports section of any major newspaper, you may not know who the hot rookies in 1989 really were.
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Old 12-04-2022, 08:20 AM
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cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is offline
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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
It definitely wasn't a regional thing. Jerome Walton was $15, Dwight Smith was $12, Jim Abbott was $12 and Todd Zeile was $10. Griffey was only $8 and wasn't selling. Upper Deck was running the presses making those little boxed high number sets, not Griffeys then. I was breaking them and travelling to shows across the country. That is all modern collectors wanted, the high number rookie cards and Nolan Ryan in a Rangers uniform throwing the football.

If you didn't know who Jerome Walton and Dwight Smith were, you must not have been following baseball in 1989. Jerome Walton was NL Rookie of the Year. Dwight Smith finished 2nd. They were the 2 rookies that led the Cubs to the NL East Championship and the NLCS. They were the hottest rookies in baseball, not the guy who led his team to 6th place in the AL West and finished 3rd in AL ROY voting. I guess if you and your friends didn't watch postseason games, watch ESPN Sports Center or read the sports section of any major newspaper, you may not know who the hot rookies in 1989 really were.
I am not entirely sure where are you going with this. Is your angle that because Griffey Jr. didn't win ROY and may not have been the most valuable card in the set at the time, that his UD Rookie card is not iconic?

We are talking about what is the most iconic (widely recognized/famous/historical) cards in the present day, not in 1989.

Griffey Jr's UD Rookie is the posterchild of a new type of sports card--the ultra high end/luxury brand card. That is what the kids like these days--shiny, fancy cards. One could make the case that the '89 UD set paved the way toward the current way modern sports cards are made.

Griffey Jr. was the 1st card in the set, is the most graded card ever, and is part of pop culture.

Last edited by cgjackson222; 12-04-2022 at 08:44 AM.
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  #86  
Old 12-04-2022, 06:03 PM
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RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
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Wasn't Jerry Rice the goat? His card was right there with all the iconic 80's cards.
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
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  #87  
Old 12-04-2022, 06:21 PM
russkcpa russkcpa is offline
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You can be as "regional" as you want but to put a selfish individual like LBJ on the list and not Bill Russell or Kareem is just plain stupid. I could also argue for Orr but no question Gretzky is the GOAT.
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