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  #1  
Old 05-29-2005, 05:36 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

I was selling 6 older SGC cards graded by Joe Merkle or SBC cards recently and a dealer told me I would need to resubmit them to get them regraded as there would not be that demand for old SGC slabs.

Four graded the same, a 1960 Topps Mantle was marked down to a SGC 84 from a SGC 92, and they would not grade the SGC 88 T206 Evers portrait I gave them as it was trimmed. I said I understood and I would take it back. They then offered me $2,500 to take it out of circulation. I was stunned that they would do this as it was graded by a different regime. Naturally, I accepted.

Hats off to Dave Forman who is building this company based on quality and who went beyond what was expected
in doing the right thing.

Dav

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  #2  
Old 05-29-2005, 08:26 AM
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Posted By: T206Collector

And makes me very proud to have all of my finest T206 cards graded by SGC.

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  #3  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:25 AM
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Posted By: Brad Green


Suppose you are looking at a card graded by SGC. The card is either in your hand or on the internet. How can you tell whether the card was graded by the "old" SGC or the "new" SGC?

Brad


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  #4  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:38 AM
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Posted By: Brian Koyama

Didn't the old flips have the initials SG on the front? Sorry for the bad pictures that I took off of ebay.

[IMG][/IMG]

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  #5  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:40 AM
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Posted By: Ben

Brad, beyond a few stylistic adjustments, the old sgc holder had only the 100 point grade scale, without the 1-10 equivalent underneath like you see on their current holders. Here's a scan of an old one from the BMW website. Hope they dont mind my posting it here:

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  #6  
Old 05-29-2005, 11:19 AM
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Posted By: dan mckee

This is just class! The way customer service should be handled. Dave is doing a SUPER job with this company, Dave is no dummy, believe me. I am not shocked at the growing prices vintage SGC cards bring, the incredible customer service, and the consistencey of the grading. Joe Orlando should be forwarded this post!!

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  #7  
Old 05-29-2005, 11:40 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dav, no doubt that is unreal customer service. Combined with the looks of the holders, SGC is clearly doing a great job these days. Now if only their set registry would take hold and they would agree to cross over from PSA for free...

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  #8  
Old 05-29-2005, 12:23 PM
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Posted By: WP

The free cross over is an interesting idea. The problem is that on high grade cards the percentage of psa cards that actually meet the equal grade sgc criteria is surprisingly low. It seems like most psa collectors convieniently ignore this fact.

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  #9  
Old 05-29-2005, 01:10 PM
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Posted By: zach

Speaking of old sgc..where did the top border go ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57993&item=5201506815&rd=1

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  #10  
Old 05-29-2005, 01:15 PM
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Posted By: anonymousdave

To clarify one thing about what Ben said above..regarding the 10 point grading scale on the label. There was also an intermediate period when Derek Grady and Lee Iskowitz were the graders, I believe, and they look like this.

If anything this era, had stricter grading and even more scrutiny than the current era...IMO

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  #11  
Old 05-29-2005, 01:15 PM
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Posted By: Brian

I was really interested in the Green Cobb also but I too had concerns about the top of the card and the "old" SGC holder. I just didn't feel 100% comfortable.

Brian

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  #12  
Old 05-29-2005, 02:08 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Imagine me sending in a card to Joe Orlando that Baker graded and his grader determined that it was trimmed and thus he would reimburse me. It would not happen. The more I think about this--the more impressed I am with Dave and SGC.

Dav

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  #13  
Old 05-29-2005, 05:22 PM
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Posted By: will watson

Jim,

that's good that Forman helped you out and all, but i have a serious problem with a company that doesn't stand behind their product, regardless of who's in charge at the time. how is that any different than Ford telling you the warranty on your Mustang is now null and void because it was made while a different owner was running the company?

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  #14  
Old 05-29-2005, 05:36 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

So you are saying that they should reslab it even though Dave and his graders know its trimmed--no I don't think SGC should do that. If product slabbed by the prior regime is altered in their belief then they should not reslab it.

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  #15  
Old 05-29-2005, 05:46 PM
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Posted By: will watson

Jim,

no. i think Forman did the right thing. my comment was directed more at grading companies in general- both PSA and SGC do this. it sounds like they aren't standing behind their product.

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  #16  
Old 05-29-2005, 05:51 PM
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Posted By: Josh K.

They are standing behind their product, but also looking out for the consumer. Car companies (to use your example above) do this with their products all the time - its called a recall. Unfortunately, most car companies wait until after an engine has blown up several hundred times (ala the Ford Pinto) before considering the consumer.

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  #17  
Old 05-29-2005, 05:56 PM
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Posted By: WP

With all do respect, how could PSA possibly engage in this kind of policy? They might go bankrupt cleaning up their mess

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  #18  
Old 05-29-2005, 06:02 PM
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Posted By: will watson

Josh,

that's what Forman did- in effect, a recall. i applaud him for it. i understand that companies are inconsistent and make mistakes, regardless of who's running the show. but i do have a problem with grading companies refusing to reholder their old slabs because they're graded inaccurately. in effect, they're telling the collector that they're inconsistent, and they won't stand behind their product. in the end, the collector gets the shaft.

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  #19  
Old 05-29-2005, 06:32 PM
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Posted By: Josh K.

Will,

I certainly see where you are coming from. However, SGC's submission sheet and website clearly states that they reserve the right to assign a different grade if, when they reholder a card, they determine that it does not meet the criteria for the assigned grade. Ive had cards reholdered w/o any problem and I assume that this is the exception not the rule. However, I think its a good policy. This may be an extreme example, but assume that the company mistakenly hires someone to grade cards who had no idea what he is doing. After a week, its determined that he has misgraded half the cards he has looked at and he is fired. Im glad to know that SGC will regrade any screwed up cards (if ever given the chance) and compensate the card owner for the lost value.

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  #20  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:10 PM
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Posted By: dan mckee

How can you expect a "free" crossover from PSA holders? The SGC holders cost money, they would be losing money if they did that. Crossing over for a nominal fee is more realistic.

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  #21  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:21 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, I was kidding; my point was that once you get 'sucked in' to the PSA Registry, it's tough to break out -- unless, say, SGC's registry suddenly became popular. However, when you own full sets of graded cards, of sometimes hundreds per set, the cost of crossing to SGC would just be prohibitive. I think Dav and I would agree that we prefer the looks of SGC holders (and probably their customer service as well). That being said, all of my Topps cards are in PSA holders because of the registry and most of my prewar are in SGC (I don't have any full prewar sets).

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  #22  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:26 PM
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Posted By: dan mckee

Oh ok Jeff, sorry about that, I didn't think free crossover made sense. WOW! If had all of my topps sets in anyones slab, I would be broke! How many cards is that? 1951 through 1988, I think I stopped buying the toilet paper in 1988. Dan.

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  #23  
Old 05-29-2005, 10:10 PM
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Posted By: David Vargha

Josh - the Pinto had a gas tank problem, not an engine problem.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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  #24  
Old 05-29-2005, 11:02 PM
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Posted By: leon

My first car was a brown '71 Pinto. My brother totalled it (maybe $400) when I went off to boot camp....back in '79. That's a whole nuther story though. At any rate just to be a little opposition here I did tell one of the guys at SGC about a card with an issue. We both looked at a scan of it on ebay, in their slab, and he agreed it looked suspicious. I know it was suspicious because I had returned it to the ebay seller a few months earlier...raw, and in my opinion definitely trimmed. It was wavy, short, two corners were sharp and 2 were fuzzy..(all of the makings) The starting bid was about $275 (it was a Marquard T213 type 1) and he said it was too much so they wouldn't want to buy it. I should have said something at the time but I didn't. So I was to blame a little for not raising more stink about it. This was about a year ago....No one's perfect..And SGC is still my authenticator when I send them in.....regards

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  #25  
Old 05-29-2005, 11:20 PM
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Posted By: Josh K.

David - you are of course correct - I was simply lumping everything together.

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  #26  
Old 05-30-2005, 05:38 PM
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Posted By: John

Zach its not that unusual for a Cobb green to be off cut and have little or no top border. I have seen many Cobb and Bender portraits with the similar cut.

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  #27  
Old 05-30-2005, 07:37 PM
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Posted By: Brian Daniels

it's fair!

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