Ask Your TPG Questions Here, A Repository...

[JollyElm]

So many of us have specific questions regarding what third party graders (TPG) do or do not do, etc., so it's time to establish a 'repository' (if you will) to compile answers to such questions. The purpose of this thread will be to allow collectors (over time) to have a stockpile of information readily available at their fingertips.

There are a boatload of net54 members who regularly have cards graded and are very knowledgable with regards to many (or all) of the aspects involved in the grading process, so I ask that you help your fellow members out when you can.


***Simple Rules***
1. Ask specific questions that (hopefully) have specific answers.
2. Don't get involved in debates over which TPG is 'better' than other ones. No need for that here.
3. Share your knowledge!! Even if you want to post general thoughts about questions that haven't been asked yet, but you know are pertinent, please do so.
4. No masks required.


So start asking your questions!!


I'll kick it off...

1. Does SGC grade 'wrong back' cards? And if so, do they give the card a number grade, or is just marked as 'Authentic'?

2. Does PSA grade 'wrong back' cards?

3. How does PSA's reholdering service work with regards to a cracked slab? If I submit a card in a cracked slab, does the fee include them examining the card to ensure it wasn't damaged when the slab became broken/cracked, and then reholdering it? Or is there more involved (assuming the card was NOT damaged)?

[swarmee]

1989 Fleer - [Base] #130.1 - Tom Brookens (Mike Heath Back) [PSA 8.5 NM‑MT+]
Courtesy of COMC.com

AFAIK, the only wrong backs PSA will grade are those that are officially checklisted.

[whiteymet]

I don't know if this question meets your criteria but what I would like to ask PSA is why when a card from one set is added to the checklist for a players Master registry set, ALL cards from that set are not added to ALL the player checklists for ALL the players in that set.

For example the Mantle Master set registry checklist has a 1959 Dad's Cookies card listed. While the Kaline card from the same Dad's set is NOT included on Kaline's checklist for his Master set registry.

Makes no sense to me.

[GeoPoto]

I don't have any answers, but don't want to miss the chance to show this "wrong back".

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1652009968
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1652009972

[savedfrommyspokes]

SGC does, or at least used to, grade wrong backs...here is mine.

[Gr8Beldini]

My question: How do you assign a declared value to a card being submitted when you don't know the grade it'll be assigned? I have a high end card sitting in a Global GAI 7 holder. Should have gotten it converted years ago but didn't. Want to do it now. There is a very big difference in declared value between the card coming back a PSA 5 and it coming back a PSA 7, not to mention a very big difference in submission cost between a 5 and 7. Don't want to pay thousands of $$ for a declared 7 and have it come back a 6. How do you do this accurately?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gr8Beldini

My question: How do you assign a declared value to a card being submitted when you don't know the grade it'll be assigned? I have a high end card sitting in a Global GAI 7 holder. Should have gotten it converted years ago but didn't. Want to do it now. There is a very big difference in declared value between the card coming back a PSA 5 and it coming back a PSA 7, not to mention a very big difference in submission cost between a 5 and 7. Don't want to pay thousands of $$ for a declared 7 and have it come back a 6. How do you do this accurately?

Declared value is simply them asking you what you value the card at when you submit it. Think of it as being used for insurance purposes while the card is in their possession. If the card were to be lost in the mail or somehow damaged while in their hands, what $ do you need for it to make you whole? If you have figured the value "wrong" for purposes of the fee to grade it, I know PSA has no problem upcharging people, and does this on the regular. I would assume SGC does the same. But I don't think the declared value should be used to guess what you think they are going to grade your card.

[JollyElm]

John was kind enough to offer some insight on the reholdering question (in a different thread), so I copied and pasted it here...

Originally Posted by swarmee

It's up to their discretion whether or not the crack is symptomatic of the card either being damaged or swapped out. If they deem no damage or swap possibility, then they reholder with the original grade. If they believe there is a chance the card is damaged/swapped, they'll likely email you to get your permission to crack it out, regrade (with new submission costs), and likely regrade the card. I don't know whether or not the Grade Guarantee would apply to a slab they consider damaged, and whether you'd get cut a check for the difference if they come in lower.
Your best bet is to take them to an on-site grading location like the National, and discuss it with the employees before submitting.

[darkhorse9]

When will TOG stop calling them "Scrapps Tobacco" (which never existed and been proven wrong) and correctly label them H.G. Smith & Co.?
More importantly, will they correct and relabel old slabs?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

More importantly, will they correct and relabel old slabs?

If you can convince them, and pay for a reholder.

[JollyElm]

I contacted SGC about the 1974 Topps Winfield wrong back, and they asked for front/back images and then replied thusly...

"Hi Elms,

Thanks for the image of the card. It's really appreciated. We would grade this card and mention wrong back on the label. Please let me know if you have any further questions and I'll be happy to help.

Thank you.

Brent Martin
Collector Support"

And now I'm a big fan of their customer service. Two thumbs up.


Edited to add the card in question:

1974winfield456wrongback.jpg

[Bigdaddy]

How does a TPG differentiate between a wrong back and a wrong front?

[Harliduck]

This is a cool thread...thanks Jolly!! BTW, 100% agree with the support from SGC. I'm not really a grading guy, but have really enjoyed subbing some of my 50's for the fun of it. I'll be 100% SGC no matter what...love the look, and the service. Don't give a flying f*** about resale although I got to imagine with as tough as SGC now is I'm thinking long term that stigma goes away anyhow...


My question...I've been really getting into our local baseball history lately here in Seattle and we have a rich bounty of PCL and minor league ball stuff. I just picked this up and was wondering if anyone would know if SGC would grade this? Will they look at oddball regional items like this or just return? I tried to find out with my limited knowledge of knowing where to look, and googled didn't help. Anyway, it's a cool item, but would love to have slabbed for display purposes...

[Harliduck]

One more question. Just got this back from SGC and am a little surprised by the grade. Seems centered, great corners, front is flawless (to my eye anyhow)...BUT...the back does have some yellow age spotting as you can see. I was hoping for a 6...got the 4...would the back showing age like that knock down the grade? I didn't even consider, but now wondering how the heck this is a 4? I'm sure a lot of pre-war cards show this type of aging, is this a normal downgrade??

[GasHouseGang]

Does any TPG grade unopened packs of Sportscaster cards? I have some I would like to have graded.

[JollyElm]

Harlz,
Here's the 'collector support' e-mail address at SGC that I've been using the last couple of days:
brent@gosgc.com

Shoot him your question (with pics) and I'm sure he'll let you know the deal.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Does any TPG grade unopened packs of Sportscaster cards? I have some I would like to have graded.

I wrote to Brent at SGC, and sent him photos of the Sportscaster pack. He said they could grade individual cards, but didn't offer to grade a sealed pack. The packs contain 24 cards each, and the cards measure 4.75 x 6.25 inches.

[JollyElm]

I'm getting ready to send my wrong back 1974 Topps Dave Winfield RC into SGC. My collection is pretty straight forward 1950s to '70s stuff. Insufferably long waits aside, are there types of cards that are 'better' (whatever that means to you personally) to send into SGC than to PSA? I guess my focus would really be on eventual resale value, and not aesthetics or anything along those lines.

The wrong back is a must, but is there anything else that stands out in the timeframe I mentioned?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

My collection is pretty straight forward 1950s to '70s stuff. Insufferably long waits aside, are there types of cards that are 'better' (whatever that means to you personally) to send into SGC than to PSA?

SGC since 2020 has gone overboard with being tough on centering. From what I have seen, they are now tougher on centering, and PSA is still tougher on corners. PSA will give a card a 5 for corners that I've seen get 6's with SGC - just my opinion. But I've also seen SGC lose the script on centering and horribly downgrade cards just because of that. I had a certain Mickey Mantle card that was a harshly graded SGC 5; I busted it and sent it back to them and they gave it a 6.5.

So bottom line, I would not send any "close" cards in terms of centering standards that you want to get a certain grade to SGC. Part of the problem may also be new graders or those that can't figure out percentage math beyond 60/40. SGC is great basically with giving well-centered cards fair grades in respect to their other problems. But with OC, they misjudge stated centering standards far too often for my tastes.

[JollyElm]

What constitutes a wrinkle of a crease?

Someone asked me for more information on a 1967 Topps #200 Willie Mays card I have available for trade, so I grabbed pics and am trying to describe it accurately. Here's the question...

What actually constitutes a crease or wrinkle to the TPGs??

In the first shot, I captured the sun's reflection off the overall gloss of the card front. It looks pretty consistent throughout, but on further ‘scangling’ (tilting it in the light) to really focus in on that area, there is a definite straight line cleft in the gloss up there. It very well may be naturally occurring, as there isn't even a hint of damage in the area, and it doesn't in any way, shape or form appear on back. I would never call it a wrinkle or crease, but it is some sort of impression that is only gloss deep (no cardboard was harmed in filming this movie).

• Wishful thinking aside, would this impression in the gloss be considered a member of the crease/wrinkle family and immediately drop it down to a maximum grade of a PSA 4 (or whatever), before it's even looked at?

• Or is this type of thing considered a 'normal'(?) surface anomaly that would NOT immediately drop the number grade (unless, of course, it's one of multiple factors that combine to lower the grade)?

• Does anyone have any specific insight into this? We all see all sorts of natural (sometimes unnatural) pock marks and whatnot on the surfaces of cards, but when do they turn into number-dropping detractions?


1967mayswrinkle?.jpg


The obvious answer is yes, it has to be considered a wrinkle, but does anyone have any specific information from a TPG's perspective?


ETA:
For context, let me add a normal pic to illustrate what I mean by there being no damage or anything a normal person would call a crease. Tilting it like that into the heart of the sun really overblows it...

1967mayswrinkle?02.jpg

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

What constitutes a wrinkle of a crease?


• Wishful thinking aside, would this impression in the gloss be considered a member of the crease/wrinkle family and immediately drop it down to a maximum grade of a PSA 4 (or whatever), before it's even looked at?

This kind of thing is subjective, and why professional grading more or less will always wear the tinge of being a scam. Creases and wrinkles are called out in definitions by all of the major TPG's (PSA, SGC, Beckett...) but nuances are not described. One grader might call that line a factory defect in the cardboard sheet, and not discount it as a crease. I've had cards like that before in PSA 6 slabs. But another one might consider it a full-blown crease and give your card a 2 or 3, which would be rather harsh IMO.

Cards left the factory with minor defects like that all the time. Just another thing that is not considered in applying a random 21st century standard to pieces of ephemera which nobody ever expected to be judged this way at the time they were made.

[JollyElm]

How do you go about prepping an oversized card to send off to a TPG?

For a regular sized card, you slip it into a standard Card Saver I, and you're done with that aspect. But what if I want to send a single 1964 Topps Giant or 1967 Topps Pin-Ups card? Is there a DIY way to get this going, as buying whatever semi-rigid holders are made for cards of that size isn't an option?

I assume that securing the bare card (not housed in plastic) between two pieces of cardboard probably wouldn't fly. Anyone with experience in this area have any insights to offer?


Edited to add: SGC responded to my question thusly:
"In lieu of a top loader that will fit the cards, you can use cardboard and sandwich the cards between them. Rubber band them together and send it in."

Further clarification:
"You may individually sandwich each oversized card in with their own cardboard piece. I wouldn't suggest putting the cards together."

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

How do you go about prepping an oversized card to send off to a TPG?

If the card fits in an oversized CSIV, use that. If not, a toploader is perfectly fine to submit to PSA in. Same thing for cards too wide to put in CS's properly. When I used to submit these types of cards to PSA, I would try to use the appropriate sized penny sleeve (or comic bag) and then fold over the flap and tuck it inside the toploader. That way the card was secured in the toploader, but was not taped down. PSA hates tape. Another option is to put the toploader into a resealable team bag or comic bag that fits it.

[JollyElm]

I believe I need to clarify:

I don't have a single card saver or toploader or anything that holds oversized cards, and have no desire to purchase them, because this is most likely a one time thing. So, I guess the question is, to properly submit this type of card, is there a home remedy? Are two sheets of cardboard NOT an acceptable way to submit it? Should I find flat, plastic packaging and forge a homemade toploader? That's really what I am asking. With the lack of a proper toploader, how do I send a large Pin-Up or Giant card in to a TPG?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

With the lack of a proper toploader, how do I send a large Pin-Up or Giant card in to a TPG?

I am not aware of a do-it-yourself solution. I would go to the local card shop and purchase one. The local card shop in my area also sells paper currency holders and ones intended to fit oversized cards or vintage stock shares.

Otherwise, maybe one of those three-ring binder 8.5x11 sheet holders you can get at an office supply store. I think the issue is that if it's not rigid/semi-rigid, it's likely to get damaged during shipment.

If you want a specific answer to this question, I think you're going to have to ask it to their customer support module.

[JollyElm]

For posterity, I added SGC's answer to the original post asking the question.

"In lieu of a top loader that will fit the cards, you can use cardboard and sandwich the cards between them. Rubber band them together and send it in."

Also, for clarification:
"You may individually sandwich each oversized card in with their own cardboard piece. I wouldn't suggest putting the cards together."

[JollyElm]

This is from SGC regarding requesting that a card only be graded as 'authentic,' when there is nothing wrong with it (and would normally get a number grade):

In general, cards can receive the authentic ("A") designation for a variety of reasons such as a failure to meet our minimum sizing requirement, the cards may have come miscut from the manufacturer, or the cards may show one or more signs of being altered and therefore, are no longer in their original state. There are also instances in which customers request their cards to be encapsulated as “authentic” even if they qualify for a numeric grade.
You can request for a card to be authenticated only. Just click on the A only option when you enter the card in your GoSGC order portal.

[JollyElm]

This is from PSA regarding requesting that a card only be graded as 'authentic':

To have your cards slabbed as 'Authentic' you would write in the notes/comments section of your submission form 'Authentic Only'.
Once this is done, our team will see and fulfill your request if it meets their standards.