Change of Pace: 1962 Green Tints (scan heavy)

[tbob]

I've really been helped by this thread and appreciate everyone's tips and scans. I am wondering if anyone has any tips on Stuart, Sturdivant and Covington? Those are the three I am struggling with in picking out the GTs. Thanks.

[JollyElm]

Here ya go…
covington.jpg

[JollyElm]

stuart.jpg

[JollyElm]

sturdivant.jpg

[tbob]

Thanks Darren. Could I ask you about two more and then I promise, that's it:
Post and Skinner. It looks like the GT Post has orangish sleeves compared to the red sleeves on the regular card (like Demeter's orange cap as opposed to his red cap in the regular card) but is there any other tip?
Also I know the Reniff GT is the pitching pose but someone mentioned to me that there could be a GT of the portrait pose. Is that correct?
Thanks again for the help. I'm busy looking for the slightly bigger PA speaker in the centerfield wall on the Dallas Green card, but otherwise I know what to look for and it's really helped because I have run across some dealers who advertise GT cards when they are not...
tbob

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by tbob

Thanks Don. Could I ask you about two more and then I promise, that's it:
Post and Skinner. It looks like the GT Post has orangish sleeves compared to the red sleeves on the regular card (like Demeter's orange cap as opposed to his red cap in the regular card) but is there any other tip?
Also I know the Reniff GT is the pitching pose but someone mentioned to me that there could be a GT of the portrait pose. Is that correct?
Thanks again for the help. I'm busy looking for the slightly bigger PA speaker in the centerfield wall on the Dallas Green card, but otherwise I know what to look for and it's really helped because I have run across some dealers who advertise GT cards when they are not...
tbob

Who the heck is Don??

I'll post the pair of cards you asked about in a moment. I have never seen a Reniff portrait GT and am positively certain it does not exist. The green tints with card #139 are the pitching pose you mentioned as well as the Babe Ruth card. It seems to me card #159 wasn't printed at all during the GT phase (only the misnumbered #139) and was only found to be misnumbered 'later' on.

[JollyElm]

Skinner…
skinner.jpg

[JollyElm]

Post…
post.jpg

[tbob]

Thanks Darren.

[autograf]

Darren.....Do you have all these posted somewhere out there? Or have a pamphlet for sale or something.....would love to have all of them in a single place to look at. Thanks.....

[tbob]

One of the toughest for me to find was the green tint variation of Fred Hutchinson, I just can't seem to find the "tell" which indicates it is the green tint. Any ideas?

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by autograf

Darren.....Do you have all these posted somewhere out there? Or have a pamphlet for sale or something.....would love to have all of them in a single place to look at. Thanks.....

Hey Tom. I just have my proprietary version here on my computer.

[obctom]

Originally Posted by tbob

One of the toughest for me to find was the green tint variation of Fred Hutchinson, I just can't seem to find the "tell" which indicates it is the green tint. Any ideas?

On the Hutchinson, the easiest tell is in the cropping. On the "non-green" version, a portion of his right red sleeve can be seen. In the green version, only the smallest sliver can be seen.

Check out all of the greenies side-by-side with their non-greenie brothers on my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom...7602774575697/

Tom

[obctom]

I love the scans with the "tell" - nicely done!

I have a Flickr page with the regular & green tint versions side-by-side for comparison. Everyone is welcome to view it, & some of my fellow OBC members have even printed it off & taken it to shows to help with the hunt:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom...7602774575697/

For the harder ones, look closely at the cropping differences. They are sometimes very subtle, but they are there.

Tom

[savedfrommyspokes]

Thank you Tom for the link to your page....as with Darren's work, your page is also most helpful. For me, several of the Ruth Special cards are the toughest to determine if they are GT or not and I find I almost always have to use the cropping differences as the determining factor. Your link makes it easy to do so.

[tbob]

Thank you Tom, your and Darren's answers have been extremely helpful as I wrap up the 1962 GT subset.
tbob

[JollyElm]

I forgot the thread we had going a long while back, but it featured a ton of cards that PSA, et al, had misidentified as green tints. Well, I ran into this blatantly wrong one tonight on ebay (and I don't even bother telling the sellers they have a mislabeled card anymore, because the sellers always ignore the facts and just leave the cards up)…
mccarver.jpg
Yowza!!! Not even close. I think the folks at PSA could use my comprehensive GT guide. If anyone has any connections over there, PLMK.

[ALR-bishop]

In the current issue of SCD ( October 3), in his "Leading Off" column, Tim Bartsch, the SCD editor and gateway to getting variations listed in their catalog, writes generically about variations and variation collectors. He mentions that in an upcoming issue they will be looking "in depth" at the 62 green tints.

Darren---you may already be plugged into that effort. If not you may want to get in touch with him...tom.bartsch@fwmedia.com

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

In the current issue of SCD ( October 3), in his "Leading Off" column, Tim Bartsch, the SCD editor and gateway to getting variations listed in their catalog, writes generically about variations and variation collectors. He mentions that in an upcoming issue they will be looking "in depth" and the 62 green tints.

Darren---you may already be plugged into that effort. If not you may want to get in touch with him...tom.bartsch@fwmedia.com

Hey Al.
I contacted Tom a few weeks ago and we exchanged an e-mail or two regarding my comprehensive 1962 Green Tints Guide, but I haven't heard anything in a while, so it doesn't look like I'll be involved in that issue. Too bad.

[ALR-bishop]

If this turns out to be another generic article about the green tints that would be a shame. Did you send him a copy of your guide ? Or maybe a sample

[aelefson]

I am going through my 1962 Topps cards and am trying to determine if I have any green tints. This thread has been an amazing resource, as has the flickr account with all of them side by side. Darren, I would pay for a copy of the guide you developed if you ever decide to distribute it.

Can anyone explain the difference on Chuck Hiller 188? Checking the flickr account, it looks like the green tint as a less pronounced green field in the background, and that the pole is almost red in color as opposed to the regular version with a dark green field and a black colored pole. Is this accurate?

Also, what are the tells for Bob Nieman 182? I could not discern any from the flickr page. How about the Hot Corner Guardians 163? Bob Duliba 149? Alou 133? Woodling 125? Murphy 119? I am sorry for all of the questions but looking at the cards side by side on the flickr page I could not tell the difference between these six.

Thanks in advance,
Alan

[aelefson]

The last ones I could not determine are 116 Herb Score, 161 Frank Baumann, and 180 Bob Allison. Can anyone please provide the green tint tells for these cards? Again, thank you so much to both Darren and Tom for all of their hard work on identifying these and helping fellow collectors.

Alan

[redalpha7]

On Bobby Allison, look at the bottom button on the uniform. Full button is GT

[redalpha7]

I see a bit more of the red label on Boyer's glove on the regular tint version.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by aelefson

I am going through my 1962 Topps cards and am trying to determine if I have any green tints. This thread has been an amazing resource, as has the flickr account with all of them side by side. Darren, I would pay for a copy of the guide you developed if you ever decide to distribute it.

Can anyone explain the difference on Chuck Hiller 188? Checking the flickr account, it looks like the green tint as a less pronounced green field in the background, and that the pole is almost red in color as opposed to the regular version with a dark green field and a black colored pole. Is this accurate?

Also, what are the tells for Bob Nieman 182? I could not discern any from the flickr page. How about the Hot Corner Guardians 163? Bob Duliba 149? Alou 133? Woodling 125? Murphy 119? I am sorry for all of the questions but looking at the cards side by side on the flickr page I could not tell the difference between these six.

Thanks in advance,
Alan

When you have both versions next to each other (IE on the flickr site or in hand), scan the edges of the card's image closest to the outside border. The differences are easy to see due to the variations in the image's cropping. For example, on the Hiller card, along the top border, you can see that the flag in the background is cropped differently....there is more flag showing on the GT version. On card 182 the on deck circle is larger on the Gt version, on 163 you can see less of Boyer's glove on the GT. You can do this with each card in question.

[redalpha7]

I see a difference in the cloud at the upper left of the card. The cloud is fuller in the GT version.

[aelefson]

Thanks guys! I can cross off 180, 182, and 188 from my mystery list as your comments helped me determine that mine are not green tints.

I still cannot seem to see differences in the hot corner card (163). Can anyone please post clearer pictures on that one? I do not see any difference as to how much the glove shows but I also am not very good at picking out such distinctions. I also still cannot see any differences on 161 (Baumann), 149 (Duliba), 133 (Alou), 125 (Woodling), 119 (Murphy), and 116 (Score). On the Score, is it the orange flare thing on the left side of the card? I can post my examples if that is easier.

I also really appreciate all of the help. Please know that I have spent a large amount of time studying the flickr website and this thread as I never want to waste board members' time when I can do the research on my own. I just do not see any differences on 116, 119, 125, 133, 149, and 161. Thanks again for any help you can provide.

Alan

[redalpha7]

Look at the top right corner . GT has black object

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by aelefson

Thanks guys! I can cross off 180, 182, and 188 from my mystery list as your comments helped me determine that mine are not green tints.

I still cannot seem to see differences in the hot corner card (163). Can anyone please post clearer pictures on that one? I do not see any difference as to how much the glove shows but I also am not very good at picking out such distinctions. I also still cannot see any differences on 161 (Baumann), 149 (Duliba), 133 (Alou), 125 (Woodling), 119 (Murphy), and 116 (Score). On the Score, is it the orange flare thing on the left side of the card? I can post my examples if that is easier.

I also really appreciate all of the help. Please know that I have spent a large amount of time studying the flickr website and this thread as I never want to waste board members' time when I can do the research on my own. I just do not see any differences on 116, 119, 125, 133, 149, and 161. Thanks again for any help you can provide.

Alan

As mentioned with the 163 card, due to the cropping differences, the regular version (bottom card) has more of Boyer's glove showing.....see the two cards with the red circles around the spot in question.

[aelefson]

Thanks again guys! The red circle does help, and I believe mine is a green tint. I also appreciate the help on the Baumann as I now see what you are referring to. I have two and now I know they are the regular versions. Just down to trying to figure out 149, 133, 125, 119, and 116. Thank you again!

Alan

[aelefson]

Well, I think I am getting a little better at this. I believe the Alou difference is in the area of his right shoulder and the belt at the bottom. Alas, both of mine are the regular versions.

I found another post about Murphy, and my cap is not cutoff so it is the regular version.

I do believe my Duliba is a green tint as the jersey sleeves look orange and the sky is sort of aqua.

On the Woodling, are the only differences regarding the distinctness of the button and the coloring of the wall to the left of his neck? If so, mine are the regular version as the button is very clear and the wall is dark green.

I am also still lost on the Herb Score as I see no differences between the two posted on the flickr site.

Alan

[redalpha7]

I agree on the Herb Score tint vs normal determination. When there is no cropping difference , the light wood grain is the green tint and the dark wood grain is the normal. On the Dublia card, there a slight in shape on the dark brown shape on the bottom of the card.
.

[obctom]

Cropping on Score & Duliba is almost identical between the green & non-green versions, although if you compare the Dulibas side-by-side, you should see a difference (see below)

Aside from the wood grain (lighter grain always = green tint), the best advice I can give on Score is to check the clarity/focus of his eyes and the "SOX" on his hat. On the greenie they are "muddier" & look to be out of focus.

With Duliba, the biggest tell is the color of the sky - although if you look at the cards side by side, the green tint Duliba also has more headroom than the non-green, so the cropping difference is top-to-bottom.

Tom

[obctom]

Take a close look at the left-to-right cropping on the Alou. You can see a slight difference when it comes to how how close his hands are to the right border, but look down at his belt, right next to the "curl" of the photo.

On the green tint, you can see a lot less of his belt than the non-green (and on the other side of his belt - Felipe's right side - the green tint shows more of the belt between the belt loop on the white border of the card.)

Also, in the side-by-side comparison, the sky is noticeably greener than the the non-green.

Tom

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by redalpha7

I agree on the Herb Score tint vs normal determination. When there is no cropping difference , the light wood grain is the green tint and the dark wood grain is the normal. On the Dublia card, there a slight in shape on the dark brown shape on the bottom of the card.
.

There is a slight cropping variation on the 116 Score....while tough to see in images, in hand you can see that there is slightly more jersey directly above the lower portion of the "curl". As mentioned previously, the focus on the Score GT version is not as crisp as the regular....on the regular version a seam in his jersey on his right shoulder is visible and the chain around his neck is also visible on the regular.

[aelefson]

Thanks again guys! I still cannot see differences in Score or Woodling so I am attaching scans of my cards. Can anyone tell if these are regular or green tints? My gut feel is that neither of the Woodling cards are as the button is too clear. I also think the darker bordered Score is common. The lighter bordered one might be a green tint but the border still looks too dark to me. What do you folks think?

Alan

[ALR-bishop]

Alan-- I would defer to Darren if he pops in, but I have a set of the greenies and mine look like the pairs of Woodling and Score you can see in the post 44 link in this thread, and from your scans I would say the 4 you posted are all normal

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Alan-- I would defer to Darren if he pops in, but I have a set of the greenies and mine look like the pairs of Woodling and Score you can see in the post 44 link in this thread, and from your scans I would say the 4 you posted are all normal

+1, All regular copies

[bobsbbcards]

Agreed. All four are non-green tint variations.

Edited to add:

Here's my Score GT.



On yours, it's easy to see the seam in his shirt and his eyebrows. Also, his eyes are much more vivid in the non-green variation.

[aelefson]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the definitive information. It has been a lot of fun reviewing all of my cards from this series. I did find 9 green tints in total, so I am glad I checked. I really appreciate all of the knowledge shared in this thread regarding these cards.

Alan

[brob28]

Alan,

On the Woodling card, look at the color of the uniform button, it is dark grey on the regular version and a very light green (almost disappears into the uniform) on the green tints, as well as being closer to the curl. Also, on the regular card his head and hat cast a clearly visible shadow on his left shoulder, on the green tint this shadow is very faint. There are a few more, but I'll leave you with one more, on the green tint his teeth are very white (looks like he went nuts with the teeth whitener) and seem to blend into one big tooth, on the regular you can actually see multiple teeth.

[brob28]

This should help with the Score green tint besides the uniform seam and focus of the Sox logo on his hat, there is some uniform showing on the regular card near the curl that is almost completely gone in the GT. Seeing them side by side the coloration and focus is a dead give away as well.

[aelefson]

Thanks Bill! That is very helpful to have the circles pointing out the differences. I really appreciate yours and everyone else's help on these. Here are the ones I found that I am fairly certain are green tints (and two of the checklist variations). Nothing amazing, but I am still happy that I found these mixed in with my other commons.

Alan

[JollyElm]

Got here a little late to the party, but here are a couple of relevant pages from my guide…

Page 9.jpg

Page 33.jpg

[redalpha7]

Watching the Olympic diving from Rio jogged my memory that I have an open on the green tint for 151 ( Johnny Klippstein)

Any non color tells on the green tint ?

T

[JollyElm]

That one is pretty straight forward. On the green tint version, the sky is a muddied brown color. On the 'regular' card it is basically white. So even if you have a b/w picture of the card, the darkness (or whiteness) of the sky will easily tell the tale. On a side note, there is also a superfluous blue vertical line in the top right corner of the GT. It runs nearly parallel to the right white border line for 1/4" or so. That's also a dead giveaway, as the sky is clear there on the non-GT version.