Resource(s) for 1962 Jello?

[Smanzari]

Hey all-

I picked up a lot with a good handful of '62 Jellos- in my ~30 years of collecting, I haven't had much exposure to this set and was looking up comps of some I had and realized I may need a resource a little better than eBay for these- Does anyone know a place or a source or even a post discussing the rarities of the set? Seems Google doesn't know a ton regarding them (or I'm just not searching correctly)

Thanks!

[mmcgruff]

That’s a great question because I’m wanting to find out as well. So I’m glad you posted this! Lol 😆

Rick

[Smanzari]

Originally Posted by mmcgruff

That’s a great question because I’m wanting to find out as well. So I’m glad you posted this! Lol ��

Rick

By some small world chance, You're not the same Rick I'm talking about these with over eBay Messages with, are you?

All I have found is a pretty in-depth SCD article, that is honestly a little over my head

Was wondering (and hoping) there was a list or something somewhere!

[Cliff Bowman]

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=126689

[Cliff Bowman]

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=271592

[Cliff Bowman]

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=191864

[Smanzari]

Thank You Cliff! Only thing that gives me pause is the list of rarities - I don't question those are SPs, just what the list is missing as this one did not make the list:

(My Card)


(Only sale I could find / not my listing)

[Kenmarks]

I have put a lot of material out on these cards. And it is on Net54. What I would say about your observation is that you are correct, Brown is not listed among the toughest. When I built the list a few years ago, it was intended to identify the toughest of the tough. But there are a lot of tough cards. Your Brown is certainly one of them. But the list of 21 cards ( 1 2 13 63 69 70 95 112 113 115 116 117 118 156 157 166 167 168 179 180 181) were the cards I felt you almost never saw for sale, like on eBay. And I think a review of collectors want lists validates this. Never had much disagreement. In fact none. Today these really tough 21 cards go for easily $500. Some significantly more because there a different levels of availability within these 21 cards. I think a lot of the collectors will back me up on this. Now I am not saying you cannot luck out and find one occasionally for much less from an seller with limited set knowledge. But that is awful lucky. There were four or five cards sold on eBay several months ago that went for 2000 to 4000 dollars. Now a lot of us had our jaws drop[ with those prices, but the demand for these cards is very high and availability almost nil. Drawing the line at 21 cards was certainly arbitrary, because there are other cards (such as your Brown, Burton, Miller, Hoak, K Boyer which are really tough. There is not a gigantic drop after the 21 and cards 22-30 are really easy to find.. So there are a number of other really tough ones. But you see those more often. A Bilko sold on eBay last week for over $100. Generally the expensive players (both within and outside of the super 21) are journeyman players who appeared on just one gelatin flavor, generally an unpopular one A lot of the top 21 were solely on a flavor called Black Raspberry. Probably not a good seller. A number of players made appearance on multiple box flavors, thus are more common. (Nellie Fox and Jim Bunning were on Black Raspberry boxes, but they were also on other flavors, so they are not that hard to find). Many of the players printed on different flavors would certainly be considered the better players on their team. Also complicating player card availability was the company putting cards also on their pudding boxes. Maybe 64 players were on these and some of the super star were on three different pudding boxes and three different Jell-O gelatin boxes. So those player are very easy to find. Super stars or star players are not what drives the prices of this set. Those are easily obtainable. The last fact in all this is this was a test set and boxes were suppose to be sold only in the Chicago and Milwaukee area. Now based on some collectors recollections, they were sold a bit beyond these boundaries, but certainly not in most states. It is a challenging set and be glad to talk to you or anyone about it. 916 508-7872. or bwnrot@aol.com. One tip--I would not sell any of your cards until you know much more about them. Just because you don't see a sale, does not mean it is not a valuable card. In fact its the opposite perhaps. Hope this helps.

[swarmee]

https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...2-jell-o/40597
Also click on the Pop Report and Registry buttons at the top of the sales page.

[Smanzari]

Thanks guys!

I appreciate you explaining it Ken - I have actually stumbled across an article/thread/post or two of yours and I couldn't wrap my head around the rarities until you just spelled it out (pretty sure it was pretty early or fairly late when I did)!

I did end up just listing them at auction-- I don't have tons into them (the other portion of the lot covered that); if I continue down the rabbit hole I'll want to try and complete it; and the suspense has been killing me ever since I realized this stack could be a small treasure, ha!

[Kenmarks]

No problem at all. I saw a bunch of 62 Jello‘s get put up on eBay tonight. I assume those are yours. Looks like you’ve got one of the 21 toughest. #63. That’s a bit on the easier side, but certainly very much desirable. Be interesting to see how well you do with it.

[Smanzari]

Yep - those are mine! Yea, its definitely seen better days ha! Going to be one of those "poor card" or no card situations for the buyer but it'll fill an empty set spot nicely!

[ricktopps]

Hey Stefan, I did not know you were a member of Net54baseball. I am actually the Rick you were talking to for the past several days prior to listing your cards.
Rick Johnson
Duluth, MN

[Smanzari]

Originally Posted by ricktopps

Hey Stefan, I did not know you were a member of Net54baseball. I am actually the Rick you were talking to for the past several days prior to listing your cards.
Rick Johnson
Duluth, MN

I kind of had a feeling that was you! Small world! Yea, I'm just about everywhere - I tend to be here in spurts and when a curve-ball is sent my way!

[LeftHandedDane]

I am a set collector and have completed, or 99% completed, virtually every post-war set (excluding test issues). I think the 1962 Jello set is the most difficult set to complete that I have gone after in all my years of collecting. At this point I have exactly 100 (about 50%) of the set. There are a group of about 50-75 cards or so that are readily available for purchase, but after that it gets tricky. There are another 75 or so that come up periodically (1-2x/year). And the rest are just never even available for sale. I doubt that I will ever complete this set - that is the first time I have ever believed that about any set from the past 90 years or so.

I believe the experts' list of the 21 toughest, and somewhere I read about a second list of maybe 9 more that are next toughest. Given prices overall, I would guess all of these would bring $500 or more each, and several well into 4 figures. Since Beckett and other price guides are completely worthless on this, I manually track sales of these cards to try to understand the relative values.

I have found another 12 cards that I have seen sell for excess of $100 that are not even on either of these lists. These include 31 Brandt, 43 Perry, 44 Held, 59 Buddin, 77 Wagner, 87 Green, 98 Archer, 105 T Davis, 132 Pagan, 161 Warwick, 175 Virdon, and 198 Roberts. (most of these are listed in Beckett as $6-10 cards). And we are not usually talking about anything better than VG condition.

There is still another group of cards that I have never seen up for auction on eBay in the past 4-5 years: 3 Boyer, 4 Kubek, 12 Arroyo, 16 Boros, 28 Breeding, 68 Veal, 96 Posada, 169 Stuart, 177 Face, 195 Demeter, and 199 Mahaffey. So I have no idea of their selling price should they come on the market.

Given the prices the rarer cards are getting (63 Pagliaroni just sold for $1500+), there is clearly more demand than supply - which is why I believe this set is more difficult than any other I've run across (post-war). Even pre-war - I completed 33 and 34 Goudey, Diamond Stars, and Play Ball sets with far less difficulty (albeit some high prices).

Interested in others' perspectives on this set and would love to hear any different input on relative scarcity/value of the named cards - as well as others I may have missed.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

I am a set collector and have completed, or 99% completed, virtually every post-war set (excluding test issues). I think the 1962 Jello set is the most difficult set to complete that I have gone after in all my years of collecting. At this point I have exactly 100 (about 50%) of the set. There are a group of about 50-75 cards or so that are readily available for purchase, but after that it gets tricky. There are another 75 or so that come up periodically (1-2x/year). And the rest are just never even available for sale. I doubt that I will ever complete this set - that is the first time I have ever believed that about any set from the past 90 years or so.

I believe the experts' list of the 21 toughest, and somewhere I read about a second list of maybe 9 more that are next toughest. Given prices overall, I would guess all of these would bring $500 or more each, and several well into 4 figures. Since Beckett and other price guides are completely worthless on this, I manually track sales of these cards to try to understand the relative values.

I have found another 12 cards that I have seen sell for excess of $100 that are not even on either of these lists. These include 31 Brandt, 43 Perry, 44 Held, 59 Buddin, 77 Wagner, 87 Green, 98 Archer, 105 T Davis, 132 Pagan, 161 Warwick, 175 Virdon, and 198 Roberts. (most of these are listed in Beckett as $6-10 cards). And we are not usually talking about anything better than VG condition.

There is still another group of cards that I have never seen up for auction on eBay in the past 4-5 years: 3 Boyer, 4 Kubek, 12 Arroyo, 16 Boros, 28 Breeding, 68 Veal, 96 Posada, 169 Stuart, 177 Face, 195 Demeter, and 199 Mahaffey. So I have no idea of their selling price should they come on the market.

Given the prices the rarer cards are getting (63 Pagliaroni just sold for $1500+), there is clearly more demand than supply - which is why I believe this set is more difficult than any other I've run across (post-war). Even pre-war - I completed 33 and 34 Goudey, Diamond Stars, and Play Ball sets with far less difficulty (albeit some high prices).

Interested in others' perspectives on this set and would love to hear any different input on relative scarcity/value of the named cards - as well as others I may have missed.

I will preface my comments by telling you that I've only been collecting this set for about 5 years now. I believe I am around 15 cards short. Has been very slow going for me for the last couple of years and haven't added many to my set.
There are guys on here that have an incredible amount of knowledge about this obscure set. At this point, I don't think you will find anyone with more background than Ken. His detail has been amazing and I'm sure I'm not the only one that is waiting/hoping he will someday write a book on it. It would be a travesty to see all of that research and knowledge lost.

So here's what I can tell you... there are a few guys that have a lot of the cards you have listed above. Keep in mind, some of these guys have been acquiring these cards for 30+ years. Typically, the super rare sp's only come up for sale if someone that has had them for a long time decides to let one go. Sometimes you will see them passed around in the pretty small circle of guys collecting the set so they won't come up for sale. A lot of times when you see the ultra rare ones, it's because someone has no clue what they have and they just list it on Ebay. There have been a lot of them picked up that way in the last couple of years. In the early stages, I picked up a Stan Williams on a BIN and I had no clue how difficult that card was until Ken educated me

Prices and values... well, that's a whole other ballgame. Cards will full borders are always going to bring a premium because there's just not a ton of them out there for sale. Factor in the rarity of the card and you will have to be prepared to spend a small fortune to try and get one. There were several sp's that sold earlier in the year that were VERY high end examples. A handful brought more than $3k each.

I think that right now, there are several more people chasing the set than when I started 5 years ago. The people I've had the good fortune to get to know in the Jell-O community are great guys. Ken, Wayne and Stew have all been a big help to me and I can't thank them enough. I have expressed my thoughts of giving up on the set a few times with Wayne and he has talked me out of it... whether he knows it or not.

So, in conclusion, it is possibly THE toughest set to complete post-war and has to be close to the top of all-time, in my opinion. Other sets might just be difficult to complete because of the cost of a card or two... but you can typically find the card. 62 Jell-O... doesn't matter how much money you have, certain cards just don't come up for sale.

Best of luck in your pursuit!

Tim

[LeftHandedDane]

Tim,

Thanks for the message. Clearly you are a better detective than I, finding so many of these cards!

Your comments about the inner circle of Jello card collectors is interesting to me. I have read most if not all of Ken's posts (pun intended!) and find the effort to match the players to the flavors fascinating. But I did not know that the set collectors themselves were connected like that.

Hopefully one or more of them will read this and consider adding me to the group - I would love to pick their brains about this set (and the other Post/Jello sets)

Ed

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

Tim,

Thanks for the message. Clearly you are a better detective than I, finding so many of these cards!

Your comments about the inner circle of Jello card collectors is interesting to me. I have read most if not all of Ken's posts (pun intended!) and find the effort to match the players to the flavors fascinating. But I did not know that the set collectors themselves were connected like that.

Hopefully one or more of them will read this and consider adding me to the group - I would love to pick their brains about this set (and the other Post/Jello sets)

Ed

There are a lot of collectors of this set that keep it quiet and rightfully so. The competition for some of the highly sought after cards can get fierce and to let the others know what you need can be a double edged sword.

When I first got involved, it was like going up against the Illuminati, lol. Felt like a secret society and I was just an outsider. I think with all the information that has been shared, most specifically on Net54, it has become a lot more open. As I said before, I have dealt with some really great guys in regards to this set and several of them are on here. There is also a lot of information about this set that is still unknown and may never be unlocked. Ken has done such a great job and Dan previously dug up a lot of info prior to my coming onboard.
I'm 52 and am really regarded as one of the "kids" collecting this set. From what I gather, the majority of the other guys exceed me in age. I still have to pay my dues.

[skil55voy]

Incredibly tough set to complete and I would agree that it may be the hardest Post War set to finish. To complete one with borders intact, well near impossible. Between Ken, Fred and others we have been trying to identify which boxes each card was produced on. The information for the 1963 Jello set exists. Currently (without checking with my colleagues) I believe there are 67 players who have not been identified to a specific flavor, regular or pudding. We have also not determined exactly where the cards were released other than vague "Chicago area, Wisconsin etc." From a personal standpoint I believe they may have been released in the Cincinnati area. There seems to be Red Leg cards available in higher numbers than others. But, this only an opinion. If anyone is interested I have a breakdown of known players and their boxes and which players have not been identified. The data is in excel spreadsheets and I would be glad to send on request.