T206 Plank status in the hobby

[investinrookies]

Curious where everyone would put this card in relation to other big key pre-war cards in the hobby. At one time the big three were wagner, plank and the goudey Lajoie, at least that's what Ive read. Id be interested to see some list of the top five/ten pre-war cards as they would rank today and where you guys think the plank currently sits.

[GasHouseGang]

Haven't you heard? Now it's the 1952 Topps Mantle, 2009 Trout rookie, and then the T206 Wagner bringing up the rear!

[vthobby]

Certainly top 5 still.

Mantle 1952 Topps / 1951 Bowman Rookie (sorry I tied 2 in one)

T206 Wagner

T206 Plank

1916 Sporting News Babe Ruth / 1914 Baltimore News Ruth (there I go again!)

Wagner still the king of cards but suffice to say, anyone that collects would take ANY of those listed above and feel they won the lottery!

Peace, Mike

[Rhotchkiss]

There are many threads about this already. But it’s always fun, so here goes my take; maybe order can change a bit. This list does not include pre 1900 cards, several of which could easily make this list

1. T206 Wagner
2. Baltimore News Ruth
3. T206 Doyle NY Natl
4. W600 Cobb
5. T210 Joe Jackson
6. 1916 Ruth
7. W600 Wagner, Type 1
8. 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson
9. 1925 Gehrig
10. 1915 Red Sox PC (Ruth rookie)

Honorable mention -
T206 Plank
1914 CJ Joe Jackson
E107 Mathewson
E107 Wagner
W600 Mathewson
1933 Goudey Lajoie

[LincolnVT]

Pre-war cards have always been the most interesting to me. That said, if you are asking what the top 5 cards are value wise today, I would have to say that the list would include some post war and even modern cards...things seem to be trending that way...unfortunately.

[campyfan39]

Can someone give me a quick post on why the Plank is so valuable? I know all about Wagner etc. but I assume this is equally as rare but didn’t know if there was a story behind it? Thanks.

[robw1959]

From what I've read, the story is similar to that of Wagner in that they both didn't want to influence kids toward using tobacco, and thus prohibited the release of their images on tobacco cards. Now, I know that at least Honus used chewing tobacco because of the photo-picture on his '48 Leaf card. But there's nothing illogical or hypocritical about having a bad habit and not wanting to promote that habit among youngsters. The fact that both of these players did have their likenesses on caramel card issues validates the entire story for me, even though there are some doubters out there who think these two were holding out for more tobacco money or something of that sort.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

Pre-war cards have always been the most interesting to me. That said, if you are asking what the top 5 cards are value wise today, I would have to say that the list would include some post war and even modern cards...things seem to be trending that way...unfortunately.

I would agree with this. My top 5 would be

t206 Wagner
Baltimore News Ruth
1952 Topps Mantle
1986 Fleer Michael Jordan
t206 Plank

for Prewar I would have the t206 Cobb/Cobb back and M 101-4/5 Ruth as the other two.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by robw1959

But there's nothing illogical or hypocritical about having a bad habit and not wanting to promote that habit among youngsters.

My grandmother both smoked and told us grandkids never to smoke.

[sb1]

The Plank is a bit more complex as there are a few different levels of rarity and desirability.

Most of the ones that are seen and bought and sold are the more common 350 Series. They are the pale blue and somewhat washed out printing. Typically these bring anywhere from 40k to 125k, not placing them among the top five or perhaps even ten of pre-war cards. The 150 Series Fact 30., are the next step up and will usually bring 2-3 times a 350 Series card, with a Heritage sale of 250k just a couple of years past, firmly placing it among the top five.

The real find and untested in this era is the 150 Series Fact 25., of which there are only a few known and certainly single digit population when accounting for an unknown example or two or even three, as there are currently less than five confirmed. The 150 Series cards are also much deeper blue and have great registration, making them quite a bit more visually attractive(which is true of most 150's vs 350 Series cards).

With the explosion of T206 collectors and those that focus on backs/factory rarities, a nice example(VG or better) of the 150 Series Fact 25. Plank would probably set a new price record for a T206 Plank.

[tedzan]

Scott described the complexity of the Eddie Plank card perfectly. The desirability of the 150 Series Plank cards considerably exceeds cards with "350" backs.

My research indicates that Plank was very anti-tobacco (as was his Manager, Connie Mack) which suggests to us that he informed ATC that he did NOT want
his image on their tobacco cards. Therefore, early in the game, ATC ceased printing him on their T206 cards.

My SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30 is an example of what Scott alluded to regarding the richer color of the "150" cards (PIEDMONT or SWEET CAPORAL).


.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by sb1

The Plank is a bit more complex as there are a few different levels of rarity and desirability.

Most of the ones that are seen and bought and sold are the more common 350 Series. They are the pale blue and somewhat washed out printing. Typically these bring anywhere from 40k to 125k, not placing them among the top five or perhaps even ten of pre-war cards. The 150 Series Fact 30., are the next step up and will usually bring 2-3 times a 350 Series card, with a Heritage sale of 250k just a couple of years past, firmly placing it among the top five.

The real find and untested in this era is the 150 Series Fact 25., of which there are only a few known and certainly single digit population when accounting for an unknown example or two or even three, as there are currently less than five confirmed. The 150 Series cards are also much deeper blue and have great registration, making them quite a bit more visually attractive(which is true of most 150's vs 350 Series cards).

With the explosion of T206 collectors and those that focus on backs/factory rarities, a nice example(VG or better) of the 150 Series Fact 25. Plank would probably set a new price record for a T206 Plank.

Great post right here.

[campyfan39]

Why is that an A and not a grade?

Originally Posted by tedzan

Scott described the complexity of the Eddie Plank card perfectly. The desirability of the 150 Series Plank cards considerably exceeds cards with "350" backs.

My research indicates that Plank was very anti-tobacco (as was his Manager, Connie Mack) which suggests to us that he informed ATC that he did NOT want
his image on their tobacco cards. Therefore, early in the game, ATC ceased printing him on their T206 cards.

My SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30 is an example of what Scott alluded to regarding the richer color of the "150" cards (PIEDMONT or SWEET CAPORAL).


.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Why is that an A and not a grade?

It's my understanding that the corners of this card have been professionally restored.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[investinrookies]

interesting info on the planks...didnt know the SC150 was more valuable and harder to find than the SC 350. That being said looking at VCP there seems to be a good record of both backs selling and also some nice SC350 as well. I think simply owning a copy of either is a true accomplishment and grail piece to any collection. The rarity, history and status of this card in the hobby is very appealing to me.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

There are many threads about this already. But it’s always fun, so here goes my take; maybe order can change a bit. This list does not include pre 1900 cards, several of which could easily make this list

1. T206 Wagner
2. Baltimore News Ruth
3. T206 Doyle NY Natl
4. W600 Cobb
5. T210 Joe Jackson
6. 1916 Ruth
7. W600 Wagner, Type 1
8. 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson
9. 1925 Gehrig
10. 1915 Red Sox PC (Ruth rookie)

Honorable mention -
T206 Plank
1914 CJ Joe Jackson
E107 Mathewson
E107 Wagner
W600 Mathewson
1933 Goudey Lajoie

Not a bad list, but I would add the Old Judge Cap Anson in uniform. I don't think that one has sold in an auction in at least 15 years, so hard to value.

But I have to ask Ryan, did you forget the T206 Cobb back, or deliberately omit it?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Sean

Not a bad list, but I would add the Old Judge Cap Anson in uniform. I don't think that one has sold in an auction in at least 15 years, so hard to value.

But I have to ask Ryan, did you forget the T206 Cobb back, or deliberately omit it?

Cobb Cobb back should be on the list...

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

There are many threads about this already. But it’s always fun, so here goes my take; maybe order can change a bit. This list does not include pre 1900 cards, several of which could easily make this list

1. T206 Wagner
2. Baltimore News Ruth
3. T206 Doyle NY Natl
4. W600 Cobb
5. T210 Joe Jackson
6. 1916 Ruth
7. W600 Wagner, Type 1
8. 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson
9. 1925 Gehrig
10. 1915 Red Sox PC (Ruth rookie)

Honorable mention -
T206 Plank
1914 CJ Joe Jackson
E107 Mathewson
E107 Wagner
W600 Mathewson
1933 Goudey Lajoie

Interesting that the Plank and Lajoie didn't make your top 10 when they used to be numbers 2 and 3 years ago. Boy how times have changed.

[Jobu]

My question: Are we talking about the 5-10 most famous cards or the 5-10 most valuable cards?

If we are talking about famous, iconic cards, I think T206 Wagner, T206 Plank, 33 Lajoie, and 52 Topps Mantle should remain the most famous 4 because they are all major names, all have 70-110 years of being legendary cards, and strike the right balance between being available to more than a handful of people but rare enough to drive demand. They also hail from the three most-collected issues. All vintage card collectors know these cards, as do many (most?) modern card collectors.

If we are talking straight hammer price of the top examples of each, then all of those other cards enter the conversation. But I don't think they will attain the same status because (almost) nobody builds those sets and there are so few of each that not enough people are able to own one. Not all vintage card collectors are familiar with these and most modern card collectors have never heard of them.

I also think that the Plank belongs in the top 10 no matter which list is being considered. If a PSA 7 150 series Plank came to auction it would sell for as much as or more than a lot of stuff on that list. The last nice 150 Plank, a 3 at HA, sold for a quarter of a million dollars over two years ago, and we all know what has happened to the market since then.

[investinrookies]

Is there really that big of pop difference in the plank 150 vs the 350 back? To me its a rare iconic card and both are very valuable and sought after.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Is there really that big of pop difference in the plank 150 vs the 350 back? To me its a rare iconic card and both are very valuable and sought after.

Read sb1's above post. He speaks from experience.

[Jobu]

A quick run through the gallery on the T206 Resource (http://t206resource.com/Plank-Gallery.html) shows:

Sweet Caporal 150: 12
Sweet Caporal 350: 34
Piedmont 150: 4
Back Unknown: 10
Total: 60

I went quickly so this isn't perfect, and I didn't bother to try to guess whether the scans without backs are 150 or 350 (though it wouldn't be too hard for the decent scans given the significant difference in image quality). But there are a lot more 350s than 150s.

[sb1]

To take Bryan's tally a step further of the 150's shown, all of the Piedmonts are Fact 25. none of the 350's appear to be, but I am pretty sure when I had better scans from matched PSA certs that 1 one was Fact 25. All of the rest of the 150's are Fact. 30's.

[Pat R]

This is what I have in my notes of the ones that I could tell what the factory's were.

SC150/25 - 1
SC150/30 - 9
PD150 - 5
SC350/30 35

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

There are many threads about this already. But it’s always fun, so here goes my take; maybe order can change a bit. This list does not include pre 1900 cards, several of which could easily make this list

1. T206 Wagner
2. Baltimore News Ruth
3. T206 Doyle NY Natl
4. W600 Cobb
5. T210 Joe Jackson
6. 1916 Ruth
7. W600 Wagner, Type 1
8. 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson
9. 1925 Gehrig
10. 1915 Red Sox PC (Ruth rookie)

Honorable mention -
T206 Plank
1914 CJ Joe Jackson
E107 Mathewson
E107 Wagner
W600 Mathewson
1933 Goudey Lajoie

All the cards you listed, Ryan, have one thing in common: I don't have them!

[Pat R]

Here's the one Sweet Caporal factory 25 Plank

Plank SC150-25.jpg

Plank SC150-25 back.jpg

[sb1]

Mine is card #47 also a 150 Series Fact 25


Note the near identical back centering as the one above.

[t206fanatic]

For comparison, the common SC350 looks more washed out

[investinrookies]

So in terms of overall rarity regardless of the 150/350 back where does plank fall, Third after wagner and the Doyle?

[investinrookies]

assuming the plank is third in rarity amongst all T206?

[MVSNYC]

Within the T206 set, yes, Plank 3rd... But note, Doyle way rarer than Wagner. If you want to count the Cobb/Cobb back, that would sit between Doyle and Wagner.

[investinrookies]

lets compare the T206 plank to say an E121 ruth for fun...which one would you rather have?

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

lets compare the T206 plank to say an E121 ruth for fun...which one would you rather have?

assuming the same grade.....

T206 Plank all day.

Mike

[Sean]

Plank, and it's not close.

[ullmandds]

apples to oranges...plank is in a different league!

[RCMcKenzie]

The Plank is a much more revered card by card collectors. I have this unpresentable e121 Ruth that neither card collectors, nor regular baseball fans are wowed by. If I had a T206 Plank in this condition, card collectors would be impressed, but the average person on the street would not know what it was.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

The Plank is a much more revered card by card collectors. I have this unpresentable e121 Ruth that neither card collectors, nor regular baseball fans are wowed by. If I had a T206 Plank in this condition, card collectors would be impressed, but the average person on the street would not know what it was.

I'm wowed by your Ruth! Thanks for sharing!

Mike

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks, Mike. I guess it's all relative. I like this lower grade Ruth, and was glad to get it.

[packs]

Surprised to see the Doyle listed as a top card. Expensive, yes. But nowhere near the layman recognition a Wagner or 52 Mantle has. Lots of cards are expensive. What makes the Doyle worthy of top 5 hobby status? Nobody but a T206 freak has any reason to know who he is.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by packs

Surprised to see the Doyle listed as a top card. Expensive, yes. But nowhere near the layman recognition a Wagner or 52 Mantle has. Lots of cards are expensive. What makes the Doyle worthy of top 5 hobby status? Nobody but a T206 freak has any reason to know who he is.

time for recalibration...doyle does not deserve to be a top 5 card of the hobby...t206 maybe!

[FrozenInferno]

This site has been a treasure trove of interesting information.

I'm primarily a hockey guy who happens to think the T206 cards are the most interesting ever made. The age, the rarities, the different backs and their unique quirks and nuances. I just love everything about these cards. I only own one but I wish I could afford to collect more of them.

From the outside looking in I'd have to say I'd put the Plank card at #2 out of all the T206's, or maybe #3 if I'm counting the Cobb/Cobb. Blue is my favorite color so the eye appeal of the Plank card just really pops for me. I know the Doyle Nat'l is the rarest of them all but I'm actually less interested in that one being it's an error. Same for the Magie. I might even like the Plank more than the Wagner.

Seeing some Planks with rare series and/or factories in this thread for the first time has made me appreciate the Plank card even more. Thanks for sharing these everyone.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by FrozenInferno

This site has been a treasure trove of interesting information.

I'm primarily a hockey guy who happens to think the T206 cards are the most interesting ever made. The age, the rarities, the different backs and their unique quirks and nuances. I just love everything about these cards. I only own one but I wish I could afford to collect more of them.

From the outside looking in I'd have to say I'd put the Plank card at #2 out of all the T206's, or maybe #3 if I'm counting the Cobb/Cobb. Blue is my favorite color so the eye appeal of the Plank card just really pops for me. I know the Doyle Nat'l is the rarest of them all but I'm actually less interested in that one being it's an error. Same for the Magie. I might even like the Plank more than the Wagner.

Seeing some Planks with rare series and/or factories in this thread for the first time has made me appreciate the Plank card even more. Thanks for sharing these everyone.

I agree. I have never understood why most sets are complete without errors and variations, but t206 is not. Magie is kind of cool as one of the first corrected error cards, but the difference is only the change of a letter. Plank is a HOFer and unique picture, so he fits the need for several important subsets, Hofers, Portraits. With Wagner now starting at 2+ million dollars, Plank becomes even more important as the key attainable t206 rarity.

[Rhotchkiss]

I am biased about the Doyle, because I have one. I do think it is a top card, but only bc its impossible to complete a t206 set without one, and t206 is the king of all sets (again, I am a biased t206 “freak”).

To the lay person, a t206 Doyle is not a top 10. In fact, I doubt many of the cards us vintage freaks call top 10 would not even crack the list, including Plank, BN Ruth, Just So Young, etc. But that is why we have chat boards, and that is why I love this one for us old card lovers

The T206 Plank is a major card. However, I am not sure that Wagner starting at over $2mm directly affects Plank’s value. I think the wagner calls attention to t206 and helps the entire set (including the Doyle, which is necessary to get 524), but I think it’s thr t206 Wagner is a whole separate thing to itself.

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by rats60

With Wagner now starting at 2+ million dollars, Plank becomes even more important as the key attainable t206 rarity.

This is exactly what Ive been thinking as well, every time a wagner closes at a new high. Plank on a relative basis looks cheap in comparison.

[Schlesinj]

SGC 1 Plank sold last night by Probstein on eBay for $33,600.

[t206fanatic]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

PSA 1 Plank sold last night by Probstein on eBay for $33,600.

it was an SGC 1, and had a fair bit of paper loss above the head. Great price.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

PSA 1 Plank sold last night by Probstein on eBay for $33,600.

Same card sold in REA in January for $6K more. Not a good attempted flip there. I would always think REA would bring a higher price on a card like that, than Probstein would on eBay.

[obcbobd]

I think the story used to go that the printing plate for the Plank broke early in the run and that is why it is so rare.