Babe Ruth $$$

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know but if you see an old bat at a garage sale look at it carefully!

haha...i usually do!!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

as we all know...the # of bats...balls ruth signed isn't important...it's how many are left thats important?

Agreed

The amount left and the demand along with the eye appeal of the signature determines the price

[nineunder71]

Bob, you the man

This is an awesome post, thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by obcbobd

i would think he was probably the most beloved athlete ever. No saint, but that was part of the appeal.



Was There Ever a Guy Like Ruth?
By John Kieran 1927

You may sing your song of the good old days till the phantom cows come home;
You may dig up glorious deeds of yore from many a dusty tome;
You may rise to tell of Rube Waddell and the way he buzzed them through,
And top it all with the great fastball that Rusie’s rooters knew.
You may rant of Brouthers, Keefe and Ward and half a dozen more;
You may quote by rote from the record book in a way that I deplore;
You may rave, I say, till the break of day, but the truth remains the truth:
From “One Old Cat” to the last “At Bat”, was there ever a guy like Ruth?

He can start and go, he can catch and throw, he can field with the very best.
He’s the Prince of Ash and the King of Crash, and that’s not an idle jest.
He can hit that ball o’er the garden wall, high up and far away,
Beyond the aftermost picket lines where the fleet-foot fielders stray.
He’s the Bogey Man of the pitching clan and he clubs ’em soon and late;
He has manned his guns and hit home runs from here to the Golden Gate;
With vim and verve he has walloped the curve from Texas to Duluth,
Which is no small task, and I beg to ask: Was there ever a guy like Ruth?

You may rise and sing till the rafters ring that sad and sorrowful strain:
“They strive and fail–it’s the old, old tale; they never come back again.”
Yes, it’s in the dope, when they hit the slope they’re off for the shadowed vale,
But the great, big Bam with the circuit slam came back on the uphill trail;
Came back with cheers from the drifted years where the best of them go down;
Came back once more with a record score to wear a brighter crown.
My voice may be loud above the crowd and my words just a bit uncouth,
But I’ll stand and shout till the last man’s out: There was never a guy like Ruth!

[nineunder71]

This is funny

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

We joke all the time that if you find something Pete Rose themed, that he hasn't signed, don't let him see it.

Used to make the same joke about Feller before he died.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Doing a quick estimate that's not much over 100 balls.

I would estimate 125, + or -

I'm an imbecile, not a mathematician

Dizzy Dean - "The good Lord gave me a strong body, a strong right arm, and a weak mind"

[jingram058]

Here is some very interesting "Ruthiana" that I hope doesn't get lost in this thread. Everyone just assumes Babe Ruth didn't pitch again after his fire sale to the Yankees. Not true, and here is proof.

[Carter08]

Wow, do you know who is batting in that middle pic?

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Here is some very interesting "Ruthiana" that I hope doesn't get lost in this thread. Everyone just assumes Babe Ruth didn't pitch again after his fire sale to the Yankees. Not true, and here is proof.

Nice photo and great story

Thanks for sharing

[jingram058]

the 1933 game was a complete, 9 inning game, last game of the season. The Yankees won 6 - 5 over the Red Sox. I don't know who the batters in the photos are. In that 1933 game, Ruth also homered. The bottom photo is from 1930, also last game of the season, and also a complete, 9 inning pitching performance against the Red Sox, Yankees winning 9 - 3. Ruth pitched 4 other games while he was with the Yankees.

[Snowman]

I bet there weren't even 1 million balls made for the entire MLB during Babe Ruth's playing days lol.

[Carter08]

Snowman for the win.

[SteveS]

Imagine signing a million baseballs, yet not one of the recipients thought to ask for a certificate of authenticity.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Snowman for the win.

LOL. I might actually take the over on a million for the entire MLB over his career. I'd have to do the math on how many games there were. But suffice to say it's a hell of a lot closer to a million than the number of balls signed by Ruth.

[jingram058]

According to "The Baseball: Stunts, Scandals, and Secrets Beneath the Stitches" by Zack Hample (2011), and discussed on the New York Daily News on June 15, 2010, approximately 250,000 Reach and Spalding Official American and National League baseballs were manufactured in 1930, and another 450,000 McGregor 97 various minor league official balls were made. Reach and Spalding made 350,000 in 1940. Approximately 200 official balls were used by MLB per day in 1930, 280 in 1940. Many other less official balls were used for batting practice. Per the Commissioner's Office, today 1.26 million official Rawlings balls are manufactured per year, with 900,000 used per year by MLB, 30,000 allocated to each team. 200 official balls are used per game, batting practice, foul balls and in-game combined.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by jingram058

According to "The Baseball: Stunts, Scandals, and Secrets Beneath the Stitches" by Zack Hample (2011), and discussed on the New York Daily News on June 15, 2010, approximately 250,000 Reach and Spalding Official American and National League baseballs were manufactured in 1930, and another 450,000 McGregor 97 various minor league official balls were made. Reach and Spalding made 350,000 in 1940. Approximately 200 official balls were used by MLB per day in 1930, 280 in 1940. Many other less official balls were used for batting practice. Per the Commissioner's Office, today 1.26 million official Rawlings balls are manufactured per year, with 900,000 used per year by MLB, 30,000 allocated to each team. 200 official balls are used per game, batting practice, foul balls and in-game combined.

But I defer to Snowman. He knows everything. I am an imbecile. And happy to be one. LOL.

[Carter08]

“Approximately 200 official balls were used by MLB per day in 1930, 280 in 1940.”

Seems like a really low number but I bet they didn’t toss them away for every pitch in the dirt like they do today.

[jingram058]

And, finally, I am done with this BS and moving on. Whatever. LOL. I don't care how many baseballs Babe Ruth signed. I have one, and that is all I care about.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Carter08

“Approximately 200 official balls were used by MLB per day in 1930, 280 in 1940.”

Seems like a really low number but I bet they didn’t toss them away for every pitch in the dirt like they do today.

I read that they pretty much used the same ball until the stitches tore off. Fans even threw foul balls back onto the field in the early days. I don't know at which point that changed though. Maybe during the Ruth era? I'm sure someone here knows.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

And, finally, I am done with this BS and moving on. Whatever. LOL. I don't care how many baseballs Babe Ruth signed. I have one, and that is all I care about.

And yet here I am arguing about how many balls he signed and I don't even have one. I'd much rather be an imbecile with a Babe Ruth signed ball than a know it all without one lol.

[mrreality68]

Regardless of the number of balls and other items Ruth Signed. There are alot out there over approx 30 year period.

There are high end high quality signatures to those faded. Solo signed to multi signed balls and pictures etc

What is important there is always many on ebay, auctions etc so any one that wants one can get one at a variety of price points.

Any one is also a proud addition to any collection.

The important thing is to enjoy the History and Legend of Ruth and others thru our collections

[Leon]

Unfortunately there are many more Ruth signed balls than he signed.

Random W626 Ruth that was never produced (one not seen so far).
.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Leon

Unfortunately there are many more Ruth signed balls than he signed.

Random W626 Ruth that was never produced (one not seen so far).
.

Leon

Those are amazing

You find some incredible stuff

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

At this point more people then ever want to buy a Ruth Card.

Even cards that for years were thought of as undervalued or underappreciated and would not sell for alot have recently exploded to new highs both high grade and low grade ruth cards.

Like the 1921 e121 Ruth Pose card did well but now are getting really up in prices
The same for the 1928 Icecream Ruth Cards like the Tharps or Harrington Icecream Card.

On that subject I Love the Ruth Card that James posted and I hope one day to own.

But I am into the earlier cards at the moment so I am posting this one

That is a great postcard.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Leon

Those are amazing

You find some incredible stuff

What he said, +. It really is incredible the things you come up with.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Snowman

And yet here I am arguing about how many balls he signed and I don't even have one. I'd much rather be an imbecile with a Babe Ruth signed ball than a know it all without one lol.

I am okay with having a real Ruth signed ball (it's authenticated by Harvey Brandwein, so I believe it's real), but you really do know a lot. I wish I could put my fingertips on your head and, Spock-like, absorb all that knowledge. I apologize for being so thin skinned.

[Exhibitman]

Howzabout those signed 1933 Goudeys out there? Anyone got a count on those?

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Howzabout those signed 1933 Goudeys out there? Anyone got a count on those?

More than 10, less than a million!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

That is a great postcard.

Thanks I am trying to start to expand my small Ruth Collection.

But it is costly and

1. need to do it strategically
2. other parts of my collection I am working on
3. timing on what and when things becomes available.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I read that they pretty much used the same ball until the stitches tore off. Fans even threw foul balls back onto the field in the early days. I don't know at which point that changed though. Maybe during the Ruth era? I'm sure someone here knows.

I'm pretty sure that ended after the 1920 season due to Ray Chapman's death after being beaned. Part of the problem was the ball was so dirty with dirt and tobacco juice etc, that it was hard to pick up by the batter...hence, switching out balls more often.

[Snapolit1]

Babe stylin' big time in the park. Last time I saw a guy wearing a hat like that I was in Jamaica. Boots are pretty slick too.

[Carter08]

Amazing photo! Looks thin there.

[jingram058]

His own cap, no less.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by jingram058

His own cap, no less.

Ha. That’s great.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Kris19

Hi James - Because he’s Babe Ruth. Even though there is a large supply, there is far greater demand. Scarcity alone does not equal value.

Kris hit the nail squarely on the head back at the beginning of this truly revealing and interesting thread.

[Carter08]

I read an interesting article that non-scarcity in some instances can help drive value to a certain extent. 1933 Goudey was the focus. A lot of the HOFers are fairly plentiful and the availability draws more people in to giving it a go. I got suckered in by that I admit. Obviously a fine balance because scarcity will still create high prices (see eg T206 Wagner) and overproduction will create low prices (see eg a Mike Piazza rookie).

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by sb1

Perhaps in the first half of the 20th century, Muhammad Ali probably holds that title for the second half....even beyond Jordan. Just my opinion.

agree - Ali = Gandhi, Jordan = Elvis.

JMHO.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I read that they pretty much used the same ball until the stitches tore off. Fans even threw foul balls back onto the field in the early days. I don't know at which point that changed though. Maybe during the Ruth era? I'm sure someone here knows.

Don't get many opportunities to show this one off so might as post one of the balls that got away. This is the last pitch of Rube Walberg's 15th career win on June 15, 1926. Walberg, incidentally, gave up more home runs to Babe Ruth than anyone else:

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Since we're on the point of player exaggerations, I don't believe Wade Boggs drank 107 beers in a day

truth.

[SteveS]

When somebody is the very best at something, he or she is referred to as "The Babe Ruth of Such-and-Such."
Wayne Gretzky was "The Babe Ruth of Hockey." Arnold Palmer was "The Babe Ruth of Golf" (and later Jack and Tiger). Not only did they excel in their sport, but they transcended it and brought it to a whole new level and popularity. Babe Ruth transcended all of them. His home runs and personality were what the country needed during a crippling Depression. The fact that he died relatively young also increased his legendary status (as it has a tendency to do with celebrities). But because of his popularity, a lot of stuff was produced. There's no item that has the rarity or iconic status as does the T206 Wagner or '52 Mantle (which really aren't that rare). So while Babe items are absolutely expensive and command a premium, they are probably not as expensive as they could be based on his larger-than-life status. A Mike Trout card should never sell for more than a Babe Ruth card, regardless if it's a 1/1 or anything else. People are starting to realize that, and the days of relatively affordable Ruth items are winding down.

[jingram058]

Folks, you just can't explain away or revise or re-write history, or say something is exaggerated, just because you don't like it or disagree or think things have evolved into something you think just has to be better or whatever. Some things just are what they are. Accept it. Deal with it. Ruth was and is bigger than life, even now decades after his death. This photo shows him signing a huge pile of baseballs. Name another ballplayer or athlete or anyone for that matter in a setting that even approaches this. He did this on a daily basis, even on playing days after eating 26 hot dogs washed down with 2 pitchers of beer, for 28 years. He took pleasure in doing it. The people (plural) who knew him say it is so - his wife, his daughters, his inner circle of friends. His manager (agent) Christy Walsh not only said it was so, he also said Ruth hired (for pay) an army of people to mail out the colossal number of signed baseballs (and all the other stuff) back to the fans who either sent things to be signed or just asked for an autograph. He didn't ask for compensation for doing it. Accept it, deal with it. He did everything he did in life far beyond what anyone else did, or even could do, because he was Babe Ruth.

[GasHouseGang]

Babe Ruth was bigger than life during the 1930's. He dominated sports headlines across the country. Because of that he appeared on many items. Some items were produced in the millions, and others in much smaller numbers. I picked up this item and figure it's probably fairly rare, but not very valuable. It has Babe Ruth and Tom Mix together on a card. The rest of the set are supposed to help you work on your eyesight. I'm guessing it came out in the 1930's.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Babe Ruth was bigger than life during the 1930's. He dominated sports headlines across the country. Because of that he appeared on many items. Some items were produced in the millions, and others in much smaller numbers. I picked up this item and figure it's probably fairly rare, but not very valuable. It has Babe Ruth and Tom Mix together on a card. The rest of the set are supposed to help you work on your eyesight. I'm guessing it came out in the 1930's.

Very Different and Very Cool

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by SteveS

When somebody is the very best at something, he or she is referred to as "The Babe Ruth of Such-and-Such."
Wayne Gretzky was "The Babe Ruth of Hockey." Arnold Palmer was "The Babe Ruth of Golf" (and later Jack and Tiger). Not only did they excel in their sport, but they transcended it and brought it to a whole new level and popularity. Babe Ruth transcended all of them. His home runs and personality were what the country needed during a crippling Depression. The fact that he died relatively young also increased his legendary status (as it has a tendency to do with celebrities). But because of his popularity, a lot of stuff was produced. There's no item that has the rarity or iconic status as does the T206 Wagner or '52 Mantle (which really aren't that rare). So while Babe items are absolutely expensive and command a premium, they are probably not as expensive as they could be based on his larger-than-life status. A Mike Trout card should never sell for more than a Babe Ruth card, regardless if it's a 1/1 or anything else. People are starting to realize that, and the days of relatively affordable Ruth items are winding down.

I couldn't agree more. I find myself in between with respect to collecting vintage and modern cards. I have some "big(ish)" Trout rookies (Topps Gold, Diamond Anniversary, etc) and I have several vintage cards of similar value. But when I look at a nice ~$10k Babe Ruth card and compare it to a nice ~$10k Mike Trout (or pick your other modern superstar) I just can't help but always think the Ruth is by far the better buy, especially in the modern era of exponential hobby growth and investors flooding in. High-end vintage is going to dry up at some point. They'll continue to make Mike Trout 1-of-1's and gold refractors and kaleidoscope whoseitsandwhatsits gallore, but there will always be a limited supply of early legends. Even if there are ~10,000 33 Goudey Ruths out there, that's still just a drop in the bucket compared to modern cards. PSA alone has already graded over 50,000 Zion Williamson 2019 Prizm cards. And that's just ONE product line. They have numerous other product lines with similar pop counts (Mosaic, Chronicles, Donruss, Hoops, Optic, Contenders, Spectra, NT, on-and-on-and-on). There are well in excess of a million Zion Williamson rookie cards in total today, and that's no exaggeration. I just sold a modern high-end Zion Williamson card last week and used the funds to buy 2 Babe Ruths, a handful of nice Willie Mays cards, and a Jim Brown RC. And I'm a big believer in Zion Williamson too. But I'll take that trade any day of the week and twice on Sundays. History matters, and particularly in this hobby. I say get em while you still can.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Folks, you just can't explain away or revise or re-write history, or say something is exaggerated, just because you don't like it or disagree or think things have evolved into something you think just has to be better or whatever. Some things just are what they are. Accept it. Deal with it. Ruth was and is bigger than life, even now decades after his death. This photo shows him signing a huge pile of baseballs. Name another ballplayer or athlete or anyone for that matter in a setting that even approaches this. He did this on a daily basis, even on playing days after eating 26 hot dogs washed down with 2 pitchers of beer, for 28 years. He took pleasure in doing it. The people (plural) who knew him say it is so - his wife, his daughters, his inner circle of friends. His manager (agent) Christy Walsh not only said it was so, he also said Ruth hired (for pay) an army of people to mail out the colossal number of signed baseballs (and all the other stuff) back to the fans who either sent things to be signed or just asked for an autograph. He didn't ask for compensation for doing it. Accept it, deal with it. He did everything he did in life far beyond what anyone else did, or even could do, because he was Babe Ruth.

It is certainly a great photo, and I have no doubt that the stories about him signing insanely large amounts of baseballs with regularity are true, and that he did it simply for the love of the game and the appreciation he had for the fans that allowed him to be the larger than life figure he became. As a mathematician, I may quibble about specific numbers for a "fun" debate, but ultimately the numbers themselves don't really matter. It's the story of Ruth and the passing along of history over the generations, and the pieces of memorabilia themselves that make collecting so much fun. I love seeing all these old photos and oddball collectibles that people come up with.

[SteveS]

Snowman, yes, there are arguments to be made for the investment value of current players, but the oldies are probably a safer investment. Mike Trout looked like the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's missed so many games with an injury that may be much more serious than they're letting on, and he's been eclipsed by his own teammate. And that teammate, Shohei Ohtani, who looks like the greatest thing since Mike Trout, has a sore arm again that if the pattern continues may put an end to his two-way days. If I had spent thousands (or millions) on a Trout or Ohtani card, I would be a bit nervous about my investment. But Babe Ruth is always going to be Babe Ruth. We know his career and legend, and his card values aren't based on speculation about his potential or projecting his trajectory. It's sort of like blue-chip stocks. You may not get the huge swings either way, but you will make steady gains.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I read an interesting article that non-scarcity in some instances can help drive value to a certain extent. 1933 Goudey was the focus. A lot of the HOFers are fairly plentiful and the availability draws more people in to giving it a go. I got suckered in by that I admit. Obviously a fine balance because scarcity will still create high prices (see eg T206 Wagner) and overproduction will create low prices (see eg a Mike Piazza rookie).

It definitely makes sense from an economic theory perspective. I would imagine that value likely follows some sort of an S-curve similar to an adoption curve with respect to scarcity/supply. If there are too few of something, it often doesn't have a strong demand simply because people are unaware of its existence, but if you make too many of them, then everyone has one. There is always an overall market cap for the current relative value of something (which, of course, changes over time with respect to market conditions that affect that item).

However, there's also an interesting phenomenon that comes into play where something that is extremely rare can still have remarkably strong demand if it is associated with something else that has high population counts & demand. A prime example of this is, of course, the T206 Wagner card. The reason that card is so valuable isn't just because there are only ~50 of them known to exist (or whatever the number is), but rather because there are ~50 from an otherwise massively produced and widely collected set. Contrast that with something like the 1929 Churchman's Cigarettes Babe Ruth card which is far more rare than many of his more popular and valuable cards (PSA's pop count is only 308), but because it belongs to a set that is otherwise not widely collected or known about, it has very little relative value today. This is probably pointing out the obvious, but it's still a fun exercise in market economics to me. It's the same thing with modern cards and the disparity between say a Prizm Gold basketball parallel card numbered to /10 and some other random gold parallel from a far less popular set. Both cards could be /10s, but it is the association with the widely collected Prizm cards that make the Prizm Gold 100x as valuable as a Gold parallel from some other random set that most people don't care about.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

some Ruthian eye candy

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

some Ruthian eye candy

Great photo’s especially the first one

[jingram058]

Those are indeed eye candy. Excellent photos, sir!

[jingram058]

This thread has gained more traction than the old Saturn V crawler at Cape Canaveral, far more than I ever imagined, with some really cool and rare as all get out Ruthian stuff posted along the way. Thanks!