Babe Ruth $$$

[jingram058]

I just read in Waite Hoyt's "Babe Ruth As I Knew Him", and he did know him and served as a pall bearer at his funeral, that Babe Ruth autographed an estimated 1 million baseballs during his playing career and thereafter. He also personalized untold numbers of photos, etc. They are not scarce.

According to allvintagecards.com, there are literally thousands of each of the four 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth cards in existence. They are, relatively speaking, not scarce.

Why, then, the meteoric rise in value?

I paid $500 in 1988 for my 1934-39 William Harridge OAL ball signed by Babe Ruth, authenticated by Harvey Brandwein. This ball is now worth thousands. Why?

[Kris19]

Hi James - Because he’s Babe Ruth. Even though there is a large supply, there is far greater demand. Scarcity alone does not equal value.

[jingram058]

Every thread needs a card.

[Snapolit1]

Single most iconic athlete in American history. I guess some could argue Michael Jordan.

[egri]

Not all of those million baseballs survived to the present day. I'm willing to bet that a very large percentage of them were thrown out, lost, or not taken care of and damaged beyond recognition long before they had any significant monetary value.

[mrreality68]

At this point more people then ever want to buy a Ruth Card.

Even cards that for years were thought of as undervalued or underappreciated and would not sell for alot have recently exploded to new highs both high grade and low grade ruth cards.

Like the 1921 e121 Ruth Pose card did well but now are getting really up in prices
The same for the 1928 Icecream Ruth Cards like the Tharps or Harrington Icecream Card.

On that subject I Love the Ruth Card that James posted and I hope one day to own.

But I am into the earlier cards at the moment so I am posting this one

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Single most iconic athlete in American history. I guess some could argue Michael Jordan.

Perhaps in the first half of the 20th century, Muhammad Ali probably holds that title for the second half....even beyond Jordan. Just my opinion.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by sb1

Perhaps in the first half of the 20th century, Muhammad Ali probably holds that title for the second half....even beyond Jordan. Just my opinion.

I fully understand the Ruthian icon. But with so much of his stuff, even personalized, still around and commanding real serious money, I guess that shows just how big he truly (still) is.

[sbfinley]

No doubt Ruth was an amazing signer in his day, but 1,000,000 is an implausibly high number and more hyperbole of Ruth’s generous nature. If it takes 5 seconds to grab a ball, sign your name, and sit it down. You would have to sign 24/7 365 days a year without rest for 10 years to hit that number. I think a lower number like 3,000-5,000 signed balls is more into reality and like Scott stated: many of those balls didn’t survive to today. Supply and demand.

[nineunder71]

I like your theory, but your math is WAY off

86,400 seconds in a day divided by 5 (your estimation) = 17,280 signatures a day x 365 would be over 6 million signatures a year.

PRICE CHECK on isle 5 please, I’ll buy any Ruth signature you wish to return sir.

Originally Posted by sbfinley

No doubt Ruth was an amazing signer in his day, but 1,000,000 is an implausibly high number and more hyperbole of Ruth’s generous nature. If it takes 5 seconds to grab a ball, sign your name, and sit it down. You would have to sign 24/7 365 days a year without rest for 10 years to hit that number. I think a lower number like 3,000-5,000 signed balls is more into reality and like Scott stated: many of those balls didn’t survive to today. Supply and demand.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

No doubt Ruth was an amazing signer in his day, but 1,000,000 is an implausibly high number and more hyperbole of Ruth’s generous nature. If it takes 5 seconds to grab a ball, sign your name, and sit it down. You would have to sign 24/7 365 days a year without rest for 10 years to hit that number. I think a lower number like 3,000-5,000 signed balls is more into reality and like Scott stated: many of those balls didn’t survive to today. Supply and demand.

He signed WAY more balls than that. There's photos of him signing hundreds of balls at one time. 1,000,000 is probably too high but 5,000 is not even close.

[sbfinley]

Don’t think your special because you know numbers.

Originally Posted by nineunder71

I like your theory, but your math is WAY off

86,400 seconds in a day divided by 5 (your estimation) = 17,280 signatures a day x 365 would be over 6 million signatures a year.

PRICE CHECK on isle 5 please, I’ll buy any Ruth signature you wish to return sir.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by Tabe

He signed WAY more balls than that. There's photos of him signing hundreds of balls at one time. 1,000,000 is probably too high but 5,000 is not even close.

Yes even in the book “Big Fella” by Jane Leavy, she references at certain points where Ruth signed hundreds of balls, even dropping hundreds of them off the train through the towns he passed through. It certainly wouldn’t be 1 million but without a doubt waaaayyyyy more than 5000.

[Snowman]

1,000,000 baseballs? lol. I'd take the under on 100,000. Let alone 1 million.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Snowman

1,000,000 baseballs? lol. I'd take the under on 100,000. Let alone 1 million.

Laugh out loud, Mr. Snide know it all. Ruth was the most prodigious signer known. I'll take Waite Hoyt, who knew him, over you, who didn't.

[sflayank]

To sign a million baseballs you would have to sign 100 every day for 30 years....no he didn't sign a million
100,000...10 per day for 30 years...I guess thats possible

[mrreality68]

Regardless of the #.
We all know he signed alot and created alot of inventory of signed balls.
But Due to his name, his history, and his legend his demand is so great that it makes that inventory often low inventory and as a result the Demand keeps going up.
Thus the Prices Keep Going up

He is Bigger then Life on his own

and every time he is mentioned in modern day like when Shohei Ohtani gets compared to Ruth it just means more people, young people, international people all learn, re-learn, or get the Legend of Ruth more enhanced and this creates even more demand for Ruth items.

And as some discussed as some of the inventory of cards, balls, or other items dry up then other cards that normally never went for much increase because regardless of its for investment or for collecting people will buy what they can get and what they can afford.

[nineunder71]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...IRWgFcpTFV_A4G


I’ve never done this before, so I hope it works

I’m hoping the above link works, if so it should take you to an article from the Albuquerque Journal written in 2015. My really good friend, kinda my baseball card mentor, ‘Bubba’ owned an awesome shop here in Abq for over 30 years. I frequented his shop from the time I was a small child, until he closed it down shortly after this incident(well into my thirties).

His prize possession was that Babe Ruth ball. I got to know Jim pretty darn well as I got older I would frequent his shop almost weekly, and he would show me all sorts of super neat stuff. Jim was into perfect centering and Gem Mint cards long before any TPG ever slabbed a card. His collection today would bring $$ through the ROOF. I’m not positive, but I truly believe when the ball was stolen from him, he lost interest, and literally closed up shop.

I don’t know whatever came of this story, sadly I have not seen Bubba since, but with so many other balls out there, I sure hope he gets to own, hold & enjoy another one..

Since this board is so extensive and chalked full of super collectors, wouldn’t it be cool if we could somehow find his exact ball, the one with the ‘R’ written twice. I would think if the owner today knew the story behind it, something surly could get worked out to return the ball to Bubba.

Probably a super long shot, but I figured I would throw this out there.

See what I did there, thanks all

Colton

[BabyRuth]

Every thread needs a card or two

[egri]

Autograph collecting didn't take off until the 1920s, so the number of Ruth-signed baseballs from before then is probably negligible. Most were probably obtained in person, as I have a hard time imagining that in the Great Depression/World War II/immediate aftermath there were a significant number of people with the resources to mail baseballs to and from him. For the sake of argument, assume he signed 50 baseballs before each game during the season. 1920-1934 (his last full season) is 2,310 games, not including spring training, exhibitions and World Series. That works out to 115,500 baseballs. If the Leavy book is accurate, then that could easily add another 1,000 to each year's total, which would bring the total to 130,500. If he signed another 1,000 a year (3 a day, or a couple of those signings where he would knock out hundreds at a time), for the rest of his life, then that raises the number to 145,500. How many of those baseballs got The Sandlot treatment is anyone's guess, and of course the numbers I used are rough estimates; the true figure could well be higher or lower, and probably can't be stated with any degree of certainty.

[uyu906]

It was my understanding that there would be no math. (Chevy Chase playing President Ford on SNL, 1976)

[SAllen2556]

If you add in the fake ones out there I bet it's over a million.
Sure wish I had mine back - sold it long ago for less than $2k.

The other thing about a Ruth autograph is that it's a beautiful signature. He must have gotten A's in handwriting. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to collect autographs today, given that most baseball players sign their name in ancient Egyptian.

babe ruth in dugout.jpg

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

If you add in the fake ones out there I bet it's over a million.
Sure wish I had mine back - sold it long ago for less than $2k.

The other thing about a Ruth autograph is that it's a beautiful signature. He must have gotten A's in handwriting. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to collect autographs today, given that most baseball players sign their name in ancient Egyptian.

Attachment 479443

+1 Agreed

Plus if he signed it with "Babe" in the parentheses an extra bonus done usually pre 1925 or so. Adds to the value

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Laugh out loud, Mr. Snide know it all. Ruth was the most prodigious signer known. I'll take Waite Hoyt, who knew him, over you, who didn't.

OK, well if you're going to resort to name calling, then I'll return the favor. You're an absolute imbecile if you think anyone has ever signed 1 million baseballs, let alone Babe Ruth.

[jingram058]

No one really cares. I still take Waite Hoyt and his publisher over you. You don't know everything. But you certainly think you do. If I am an imbecile, so be it. Don't care.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Before I started reading all the comments in this thread, which resulted in the silly name calling that is all too common on this forum, I was also going to venture the 100,000 figure for signed baseballs. That's far from a small number, and just think of all the other signed material. Also, I am speaking only of single-signed balls, not team or multi-signed. Signed cards were barely collected in Ruth's day, so I won't even venture a guess on how many Goudeys he may have signed, among other cards.

We hear lots of stories of players signing which are always inflated with hyperbole. A couple of far smaller examples:

King Kelly was arguably the game's first superstar. The earliest story I know which involves a player signing autographs recounts Kelly signing for crowds of kids. I'm not saying it didn't happen, as I'm far from 150 years old, but shouldn't at least a nice handful of autographed album pages have survived? Autograph books were the preferred medium, and as we've seen, tons of them have survived from Kelly's era. Perhaps not teeming with baseball autographs, but what does that tell us?

What about the story in TGOTT of Bugs Raymond trading autographed balls for drinks? Remember, like the Waite Hoyt story, this one came directly from the mouth of his contemporary. Meaningless. Again, logic would dictate a fraction of these having survived the test of time, especially if given to an adult who might have occasion to take better care of it than a child. I suppose one could argue with Prohibition being just around the corner, each and every one of those signed balls was disposed of with the closing of taverns nationwide. Conversely, shouldn't then have some of them have been packed away in boxes shortly after they were signed, therefore even preserving at least one (in decent condition to boot)? Nah. Signed balls were not en vogue in Raymond's era. My best hypothesis is that yes, he did trade baseballs for drinks but didn't sign them. I could see him telling a tall tale about how each ball won a crucial game, etc. That makes so much more sense, doesn't it?

[mr2686]

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

[Snapolit1]

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

I was lucky to have known many players who played with and against Ruth. Not one of them mentioned him being difficult at all. In fact, they were all in admiration, if not full-on awe of him. Your theory has great validity and had to be true at times, but it was never confirmed by the first-hand sources I knew. He treated all of them with the storied kindness and generosity that you'd think was a bit exaggerated. I'll take them at their word. If any of them ever felt mistreated or slighted by Ruth, it would have undoubtedly come up in conversation. I'm sure that a lot of the difficulties you envision were reserved more for higher-ups than other players--especially younger, lesser players. As we know, Ruth had a soft spot for underdogs. Through the combination of his ego and performance, Ruth had the enviably unique position of not having to worry about any young upstart taking his job until his final season as a Yankee. He could afford to be nice. (Even during 1925, I surmise that his ego gave him the assurance that things would blow over, as they did.)

The vast majority of the players I knew were younger than Ruth and came along after the phenomenon and legend was already well established. Naturally, this type of player would be in awe of him. Simultaneously, if Ruth burst their bubble of what they thought he would be before meeting him, they'd have piped up. None ever did. Only good things. I even befriended a couple of guys who were more Ruth's age and didn't hold him in such an exalted light. They still spoke of the same qualities in Ruth, but with less reverence, as they hadn't grown up dreaming of being Babe Ruth!

[Snapolit1]

That's really cool. Thanks for sharing that insight.

As you imply, how Babe treated younger up and coming guys later in his career might not have been indicative of how he treated rivals and other who were in the spotlight at the same time. Don't mean to suggest he was a bad guy, as many reports were he was not at all and generally a good soul, but even good souls can be a real handful when they are boozing big time.





=BillyCox3;2146610]I was lucky to have known many players who played with and against Ruth. Not one of them mentioned him being difficult at all. In fact, they were all in admiration, if not full-on awe of him. Your theory has great validity and had to be true at times, but it was never confirmed by the first-hand sources I knew. He treated all of them with the storied kindness and generosity that you'd think was a bit exaggerated. I'll take them at their word. If any of them ever felt mistreated or slighted by Ruth, you'd think it would have come up in conversation. I'm sure that a lot of the difficulties you envision were reserved more for higher-ups than other players--especially younger, lesser players. As we know, Ruth had a soft spot for underdogs.

The vast majority of the players I knew were younger than Ruth and came along after the phenomenon and legend was already well established. Naturally, this type of player would be in awe of him. Simultaneously, if Ruth burst their bubble of what they thought he would be before meeting him, they'd have piped up. None ever did. Only good things. I even befriended a couple of guys who were more Ruth's age and didn't hold him in such an exalted light. They still spoke of the same qualities in Ruth, but with less reverence, as they hadn't grown up dreaming of being Babe Ruth![/QUOTE]

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

So how many balls did Jackie Gleason sign?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So how many balls did Jackie Gleason sign?

They do exist!

[maniac_73]

Since we're on the point of player exaggerations, I don't believe Wade Boggs drank 107 beers in a day

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So how many balls did Jackie Gleason sign?

Highballs or baseballs? I don't think there has ever been a more prodigious autograph signer in the game than Cal Ripken; he might have signed 1M times for his fans.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Highballs or baseballs? I don't think there has ever been a more prodigious autograph signer in the game than Cal Ripken; he might have signed 1M times for his fans.

Bob Feller and Bobby Doerr would like a word.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

We joke all the time that if you find something Pete Rose themed, that he hasn't signed, don't let him see it.

Used to make the same joke about Feller before he died.

[Exhibitman]

Why Ruth? He's the GOAT. #1 WAR. #1 Slugging. #1 OPS. Not to mention the pitching. In two World Series he was 3-0 with a 0.87 ERA. Everyone else compares to him. He even has an adjective: Ruthian. He is the key card in every set in which he appears. With all that, why wouldn't he be the top dog and command the most money even with a strong supply of cards?

[brianp-beme]

Collectors regard Ruth so highly that even a card like this one actually has value.

Brian (crazy to think that a card in two pieces and missing huge chunks would easily command something a few rungs up the three figure ladder).

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

Check out "Babe, the legend comes to life" by Robert Creamer. Might give you a better feel for what he was like.

[obcbobd]

i would think he was probably the most beloved athlete ever. No saint, but that was part of the appeal.



Was There Ever a Guy Like Ruth?
By John Kieran 1927

You may sing your song of the good old days till the phantom cows come home;
You may dig up glorious deeds of yore from many a dusty tome;
You may rise to tell of Rube Waddell and the way he buzzed them through,
And top it all with the great fastball that Rusie’s rooters knew.
You may rant of Brouthers, Keefe and Ward and half a dozen more;
You may quote by rote from the record book in a way that I deplore;
You may rave, I say, till the break of day, but the truth remains the truth:
From “One Old Cat” to the last “At Bat”, was there ever a guy like Ruth?

He can start and go, he can catch and throw, he can field with the very best.
He’s the Prince of Ash and the King of Crash, and that’s not an idle jest.
He can hit that ball o’er the garden wall, high up and far away,
Beyond the aftermost picket lines where the fleet-foot fielders stray.
He’s the Bogey Man of the pitching clan and he clubs ’em soon and late;
He has manned his guns and hit home runs from here to the Golden Gate;
With vim and verve he has walloped the curve from Texas to Duluth,
Which is no small task, and I beg to ask: Was there ever a guy like Ruth?

You may rise and sing till the rafters ring that sad and sorrowful strain:
“They strive and fail–it’s the old, old tale; they never come back again.”
Yes, it’s in the dope, when they hit the slope they’re off for the shadowed vale,
But the great, big Bam with the circuit slam came back on the uphill trail;
Came back with cheers from the drifted years where the best of them go down;
Came back once more with a record score to wear a brighter crown.
My voice may be loud above the crowd and my words just a bit uncouth,
But I’ll stand and shout till the last man’s out: There was never a guy like Ruth!

[luciobar1980]

Guys, there's no way in HELL he signed 1 million balls. C'mon. Do you know how much 1 million is!?!? haha

[Exhibitman]

It's been mentioned in a couple of threads already but Memory Lane has an insane Ruth auction up right now. And no, I do not have any cards in there, just enjoyed the eye candy and wanted to pass it along.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It's been mentioned in a couple of threads already but Memory Lane has an insane Ruth auction up right now. And no, I do not have any cards in there, just enjoyed the eye candy and wanted to pass it along.

The Leaf Ruth is actually pretty gross and I strongly discourage anyone from bidding on it. I will disclose the “slight” conflict of interest that I want it.

[jingram058]

I don't know how many baseballs Babe Ruth actually signed. I have read over and over that he was the most prolific signer of them all. There is an article in "Baseball Digest" (I think, do not hold me to it), I forget which issue, somewhere in the mid-80s, that stated he signed upwards of 100 baseballs on any given day, sometimes more than that, and enjoyed doing it. And photos, scorecards, postcards, letters, etc., on top of that. If that figure is actually correct, and he started signing balls at that number per day in 1920, then there is your 1,000,000 signed baseballs.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I don't know how many baseballs Babe Ruth actually signed. I have read over and over that he was the most prolific signer of them all. There is an article in "Baseball Digest" (I think, do not hold me to it), I forget which issue, somewhere in the mid-80s, that stated he signed upwards of 100 baseballs on any given day, sometimes more than that, and enjoyed doing it. And photos, scorecards, postcards, letters, etc., on top of that. If that figure is actually correct, and he started signing balls at that number per day in 1920, then there is your 1,000,000 signed baseballs.

On his hot dog eating binge days it was likely that he signed fewer than 100 balls, as overindulgence in the hot dog department is, unfortunately, a time consuming affair.

Brian

[jingram058]

Here is one example that would open the door of what we call reasonable doubt:

[packs]

I no longer own this photo, but to give you even a small idea of the number of signed BATS there were after a sitting with the Babe, here's my old photo of him signing them:

[ullmandds]

as we all know...the # of bats...balls ruth signed isn't important...it's how many are left thats important?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Here is one example that would open the door of what we call reasonable doubt:

Doing a quick estimate that's not much over 100 balls.

[packs]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

as we all know...the # of bats...balls ruth signed isn't important...it's how many are left thats important?

I don't know but if you see an old bat at a garage sale look at it carefully!