O/T feel sick inside - CT Elementary shooting

[68Hawk]

who kills 6 year olds, 7, 8 or 9?
who are we as a species that we make such monsters. that come from us.
my 10 and 8 year olds are just around the corner from me here in Lawrence Kansas, and I'm desperate to wrap them in my arms.
to say sorry for any harsh words I've laid on them.
to make them safe.

[Paul S]

I know. Have been watching the whole aftermath unfold today. One moment there are three injured -- two kids and a teacher shot in the foot. An hour later the report relates at least 26 dead and 14 of them are children. I'm about an hour drive from Newton, on Long Island (I'm sure there are many members closer). I took my kid out of school early today. I don't even know yet how to personally feel. Just shock.

[Leon]

It's unfathomable. How sad.

[cyseymour]

I agree, it does make me feel sad. How could someone even possibly imagine to do such a thing? People that innocent... it is unfathomable.

[EvilKing00]

pathetic coward, who could never pay the price he deserves

[Bocabirdman]

I can not wrap my head around what the parents must have been going through on their way to pick their kids up, perhaps not knowing if their little one was one of the victims or not.

[wolf441]

I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. I just want to get home from work and hug my kids.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. I just want to get home from work and hug my kids.

I would bet there will be millions of kids getting hugged this evening.

[xdrx]

What we all tell our kids, especially the little ones, about this is critical. Having them fear being shot to death any time they go to school is potentially a real consequence. I know as a kid, 35 years ago, I didn't have any real fears. I can't imagine what that might be like for my 7 year old.

I'd like to be able to tell her that we (either her mom and me, or the collective "we") will be doing something so this sort of thing doesn't happen again. And again and again and again. But I'm afraid that would be a lie, as we don't seem to have the will as a people to do much of anything in that regard.

Sad day.

[greenmonster66]

It is most horrible and very very sad. I can't wait to hug my kids when they get home today.

[novakjr]

The Chardon shootings last year were very close to where I live, very sad, and very disturbing.. However, there did seem to be motive there, in regards to the students actions. While senseless, there was still sense to me made of it.. This one is completely confusing, why small children?

My heart goes out to those in CT, and everywhere else that has fallen victim to these random acts of violence lately..

[e107collector]

Very sad situation. Hearts go out to each of the victims and their families.

I don't recall seeing it on the news, but how did the shooter get into the school undetected?

Tony

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by xdrx

What we all tell our kids, especially the little ones, about this is critical. Having them fear being shot to death any time they go to school is potentially a real consequence. I know as a kid, 35 years ago, I didn't have any real fears. I can't imagine what that might be like for my 7 year old.

I'd like to be able to tell her that we (either her mom and me, or the collective "we") will be doing something so this sort of thing doesn't happen again. And again and again and again. But I'm afraid that would be a lie, as we don't seem to have the will as a people to do much of anything in that regard.

Sad day.

This is a horrible thing, especially when it's children.

With the recent outbreak of similar events, almost all committed by men in their '20s with a history of mental illness (I'm guessing we'll find the same to be true of this guy), I think it's pretty obvious where a good starting point is. But our country's focus is on 'deterrent' punishment and 'justice', as opposed to prevention, so I expect things will continue as-is.

[EvilKing00]

I think his mother worked in the school. It was reported that the shooter, killed his mom, IN the school


Yep just confirmed his mom was a teacher there

[packs]

Terrible day. My sister is having her baby today and all I'm thinking about is what kind of world my nephew is coming into.

[kmac32]

What a horrible event. Society needs to start paying attention to prevent these situations. Once again an assault weapon involved. Why do individuale need these type of weapons? We do have the right to bear arms in our country but this should be within reason. Nobody needs an assault weapon for any reason.

[wazoo]

In a world where violence is admired and enjoyed by younger generations, worry really enters one's mind.

My prayers go out to those who were affected. It is so sad because now there are 26 (possibly more) human beings that can no longer, and never will be able to, contribute this the world anymore.

[Kenny Cole]

Every time one of these horrific events occurs, I wonder how much the sensationalization of the last horrific event contributed to the occurrence of the current one. I suspect when the shooter's house is searched, they will find that the shooter read up on, studied, and attempted to learn from, Columbine and the many other mass tragedies that have occurred since then. IMO, with respect to things like this, lots of press coverage and easy access to information via the internet is like a cookbook for psychopaths.

As many others have said, this type of thing is just unfathomable to me. I simply don't understand what could possibly cause a young man to become so disturbed or so filled with hate that he would kill his own mother and young children he probably didn't even know simply because (I presume) they were in the same room with her. My prayers go out to the families of all those affected by this senseless tragedy and, like many others, I will go home, hug my 11 y/o, and give thanks for all the blessings in my life for a long time tonight.

[Touch'EmAll]

In tears here in Canby, Oregon. We just had a shooting at one of our shopping malls. Now this. I have a 6 year old in Kindergarten.

Constitution or no Constitution, we did not have this type of thing happening back in the 1770's. The right to bear arms has to change.

Time for a STRICT GUN CONTROL/REGISTRATION/EXAM immediately - mandated by FEDERAL government to override all states. There is NO alternative choice.

Come on Obama, step up to the plate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

[Blunder19]

My prayers go out to the victims familys

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

100% agreement on this one

[Big Six]

Living in Monroe, one town over from Newtown, this was a very scary day. With three kids - one elementary and two in middle school - having their schools put in lockdown, it was comforting to know they were safe but frustrating to know I couldn't go pick them up from the schools. So glad they are home safe and sound...and praying for the parents in Newtown who can't say the same...

[E93]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. I just want to get home from work and hug my kids.

+1

So sad!
JimB

[Gecklund311]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

In tears here in Canby, Oregon. We just had a shooting at one of our shopping malls. Now this. I have a 6 year old in Kindergarten.

Constitution or no Constitution, we did not have this type of thing happening back in the 1770's. The right to bear arms has to change.

Time for a STRICT GUN CONTROL/REGISTRATION/EXAM immediately - mandated by FEDERAL government to override all states. There is NO alternative choice.

Come on Obama, step up to the plate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be a wonderful solution if we were starting a country from scratch, but we aren't. What do you propose to do with the guns already out there?

Somehow I doubt that the dirtbag gang-bangers that I see walking around Chicago will be lining up to register their guns or take an exam.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

I'm thinking about removing your keyboard, as we all know that without a keyboard, you couldn't put words in my mouth.

[atx840]

I have been working nonstop for two days straight on a client issue that's impacted their business significantly and moral was quite low...then word of this spread in the office and we all agree that we need to keep things in perspective and this is nothing compared to what those poor parents are going through.

Can't wait to get home and see mine. Be safe everyone.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

Peter, in a BETTER world, we'd at least try to identify SOME of them, and try to get them treatment. If not for themselves, which I realize very few people could care less about anyone with mental illness, then for the people they affect through killings like this.

I'm in agreement with you on removing assault weapons. That would force people who want to kill, to choose alternative methods - like Timothy McVee did.

[Touch'EmAll]

Geklund311 - we have to start somewhere by making it illegal to own "X" type gun. Better to start somewhere than not to start at all and shove our faces in the ground and ignore it.

Change takes time, we need to start somewhere.

I am still trembling with the occasional tear.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I'm thinking about removing your keyboard, as we all know that without a keyboard, you couldn't put words in my mouth.

Scott did I mistake your meaning? Perhaps I misremembered our discussion on the Aurora thread?

[packs]

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

[Yankeefan51]

As a country, we are trained to imagine the unimaginable.

We are so worried about due process and the rights of the sub-humans that
commit horrific crimes, we almost encourage violence.

Our recommendation is the death penalty by hanging or lethal injection for anyone convicted of murder. We should have a national gun ban. And to enforce the law, anyone who sells gun illegally is liable for the consequences.

E Bay should step up to the plate and ban the sale guns and weapons after January 1, 2013.

Drugs are another source of our culture of depravity. We should ban all illegal drugs- federally. Anyone selling drugs should receive a minimum 25 year sentence of hard labor. Anyone using drugs should lose any Federal Aid and lose their scholarship and student loan if if they have one.

We would be far better off if we banned the sale of liquor on college campuses and fined the owners of pubs, restaurants and clubs a minimum of $10,000 each time they sold liquor to a minor.

It is time for America to deal with reality. The only way to stop these crimes
murders, accidents and deaths is making the punishment so severe that it
will force everyone to think twice before breaking the law.

One additional way to enforce the drug and liquor laws is to hire students to turn those who violate the law into the police. For every student convicted
let's reward the student who identified the criminal with $1000 tax free.

Let's do what is Right For America


Bruce

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bruce, respectfully, paranoid schizophrenics are not going to be deterred by any form of punishment -- indeed today's shooter killed himself.

[packs]

I disagree for a lot of reasons. But I'll stick to just one. You want anyone convicted of murder put to death. Since the year 2000 over 60 people sentenced to death have been exonerated and had their convictions over turned due to advanced DNA technology. Who knows how many people before the use of DNA were put to death for crimes they didn't commit.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

I think that's an aspirational goal with which everyone would agree, but how realistic is that? What specifically do you propose to do? What does it mean, let's get at the root of what drives people to kill?

[packs]

Not just murder in a singular act. But what is driving people to kill as many people as they can at once? Almost entirely strangers for the most part. Is it the celebrity that the media creates? Or is it driven by something else? In Asia they have had a slew of mass stabbing outbreaks at elementary schools. They have yet to understand why they're the target, much like we have yet to understand why mass killings happen so frequently in this country. I understand that a gun allows a person to inflict mass damage with minimum effort. But why is that person holding it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Not just murder in a singular act. But what is driving people to kill as many people at once? Almost entirely strangers for the most part. Is it the celebrity that the media creates? Or is it driven by something else? In Asia they have had a slew of mass stabbing outbreaks at elementary schools. They have yet to understand why they're the target, much like we have yet to understand why mass killings happen so frequently in this country.

How do you propose to figure that out? Appoint a commission of psychologists to interview those perpetrators who survived and their families? I really don't understand how we could get meaningful answers or what we would do with them. Suppose a factor is publicity, can we ban media coverage of the next one?

[cyseymour]

The biggest problem is that the media gets on the story and starts posting photos of the murderer and talking about his life. Then there are other sick people reading it who want the same attention. They turn murder into a theatrical performance, each time finding a new locale - a movie theater, a mall, a Sikh temple, an elementary school, etc. Just another cruel twist on the same theme, so they can be known as the "guy who did the murder in the _____." Just always finding a new way to shock people.

The media has got to stop publishing the names of the murderers. Otherwise, the whole thing will never end. Anytime they talk about the murderer's life, it is just another advertisement to encourage another shooting. If they stopped calling the murderer by name, you'd see the rate of the shootings decrease, and fast. Stop giving them the spotlight.

[packs]

I don't have answers. I only have questions too. But its obvious that something is driving these actions because not too many other countries have mass murders, especially as frequently as we do. And a lot of these events take place in school settings. Is it the access to guns? Maybe. But what would they be doing without them? Even scarier to think about in a sense. Someone brought up McVee earlier.

There has to be some subversive element to daily life in this country. I think if we discovered what that was we would at least have something to build from. I would prefer that to: what do you expect us to do about it.

[oldjudge]

This is an horrific situation and my thoughts go out to the families in this small Connecticut town. What I wonder is what has really changed in our society. Twenty years ago we never heard about this type of thing. Guns weren't any harder to get then. School security was less strict then. Just as many people drank and did drugs. No, I think this is something more basic. Maybe it's the violence in all the video games that kids play starting at such an early age. Maybe it's an overcrowded court system or a more forgiving judicial system which allows people who should be behind bars out on the streets. I don't know the answer --hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out.

[Matthew80]

Here's hoping the freedom of the press and the right to keep and bear arms survives.

And woe to any criminal who comes after my family (or my cards)

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree it would be very helpful to understand what brings these things about, and I don't disagree that if there is a rational way we should try, but again, one obvious step seems to be to ban assault weapons and tighten gun control. Of course it isn't a perfect solution, but look how easy it was for the Aurora killer to get weapons. I suspect we will see the same thing here.

It also would be great to completely revamp a culture where violence is romanticized in films and on TV and in music, but that won't happen.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott did I mistake your meaning? Perhaps I misremembered our discussion on the Aurora thread?

Yes, this part: "in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment"

I have never suggested that we should try to identify all people with mental illness. And I never suggested as much in the Aurora thread.

[packs]

I just don't think that taking guns away is a solution. As has been pointed out, guns are no esaier to get today than they've ever been. If anything they're harder to get in general, considering not too long ago you didn't even need a permit and guns and ammo were being sold in department stores. People didn't bring their guns to school in the 60s, 70s, or even the 80s. But they are now. Why is that? What about society has changed? Guns haven't changed. They've always been the same. But now people want to use them. You can take them away. But there will be something else.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

Well-said. We're a society that likes to fix symptoms. It's horrible what happened today in Connecticut - perhaps the most horrible thing I've heard about in many years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

This is an horrific situation and my thoughts go out to the families in this small Connecticut town. What I wonder is what has really changed in our society. Twenty years ago we never heard about this type of thing. Guns weren't any harder to get then. School security was less strict then. Just as many people drank and did drugs. No, I think this is something more basic. Maybe it's the violence in all the video games that kids play starting at such an early age. Maybe it's an overcrowded court system or a more forgiving judicial system which allows people who should be behind bars out on the streets. I don't know the answer --hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out.

Jay maybe it's more frequent now but these things have been happening for more than 20 years. For example

In 1949, 28 year old Howard Barton Unruh perpetrated the first single-episode mass murderer in U.S. history killing 13 people. His murderous rampage became known as the “Walk of Death,” and in twelve minutes he killed 13 people and wounded several others using a German made pistol. Howard Barton Unruh was committed to an asylum after being found criminally insane. He died in 2009 due to illness at the age of 88.

- In 1958, Charles Raymond Starkweather and his 14-year-old girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate murdered 11 people in Nebraska and Wyoming by shooting, strangling and stabbing them. Charles Raymond Starkweather received the death penalty for his crimes and was executed at the age of 20 in 1959. His girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate became the youngest female to be tried for first-degree murder and was sentenced to life imprisonment.

[Runscott]

........

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yes, this part: "in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment"

I have never suggested that we should try to identify all people with mental illness. And I never suggested as much in the Aurora thread.

OK my bad, I overstated your point of view and I apologize.

[oldjudge]

Peter--but little school children. I never heard of that. If I missed it, shame on me. However, I think things have changed and society has to do something about it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jay I don't disagree that violence is much more pervasive now in our culture, but what role that plays in any given case, who knows.