Card conundrum

[savedfrommyspokes]

I bought two lots from a seller. First one was a single mfg, multi-year lot for $560. The second was a single mfg/year lot. The multi year lot was supposed to contain one year of an issue, however, due to an honest typo in the lot's description the following year was actually included. The following year is worth 20% of the previous year....the value difference is around $350. Other than this oversight, I was happy with the rest of the lot.

The second lot was supposed to be an assorted lot of unspecified low to mid-grade commons. I sorted the cards into number order and to my surprise the most expensive card from the set is present and in mid grade or better shape. This card alone is worth $1000-1200. Totally not clear if this card was supposed to be included in the lot or not.

Before I found the $1000+ card, I sent a message to the seller in regard to the first lot asking if the previous year's cards were still present on their end and let them know there was a non-specified value difference (that they should be aware of). They responded with an apology and only an offer for me to return the lot.


Should I overlook the almost non-response (apology aside) and just be happy I now have a $1000 card that I was not expecting and consider that as covering the value disparity in the first lot?

Should I double down and press the seller for some sort of compensation on the first lot because of their typo?

Would anyone let the seller know about the $1000+ card embedded in an assorted lot after the "sweep the problem under the rug" response on the first lot?

My card conundrum.

[bnorth]

I would thank them for the offer of letting you return it. Tell them you will keep it and thank them for the transactions and wish them a great day.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would thank them for the offer of letting you return it. Tell them you will keep it and thank them for the transactions and wish them a great day.

+1 No sense poking the bear. Sounds like you already came out ahead, why go for some bad karma.

I would check with them again though and inquire about the balance of the one year you thought you were getting. I would be nice and thank them for the return offer, and politely decline, and then without being too over the top, mention how you were really hoping to get the balance of the cards from the one year, and if they still had them, is there any way they could work out a deal with you? You're already playing with house money, so to speak, so it can't hurt to ask. They may not want to give you money back on the value difference, but if you offer to buy more, they may be more inclined to cut you a break. You never know, they might give you a heck of a deal on the price to help make up for what you thought you were supposed to get. Doesn't hurt to ask nicely, worst they can do is so no. Good luck.

[todeen]

I would consider myself in the wrong to press for cards missing while refusing to let the seller know they made a mistake that is benefiting me far greater than my loss.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[G1911]

Originally Posted by todeen

I would consider myself in the wrong to press for cards missing while refusing to let the seller know they made a mistake that is benefiting me far greater than my loss.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

+1.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I bought two lots from a seller. First one was a single mfg, multi-year lot for $560. The second was a single mfg/year lot. The multi year lot was supposed to contain one year of an issue, however, due to an honest typo in the lot's description the following year was actually included. The following year is worth 20% of the previous year....the value difference is around $350. Other than this oversight, I was happy with the rest of the lot.

The second lot was supposed to be an assorted lot of unspecified low to mid-grade commons. I sorted the cards into number order and to my surprise the most expensive card from the set is present and in mid grade or better shape. This card alone is worth $1000-1200. Totally not clear if this card was supposed to be included in the lot or not.

Before I found the $1000+ card, I sent a message to the seller in regard to the first lot asking if the previous year's cards were still present on their end and let them know there was a non-specified value difference (that they should be aware of). They responded with an apology and only an offer for me to return the lot.


Should I overlook the almost non-response (apology aside) and just be happy I now have a $1000 card that I was not expecting and consider that as covering the value disparity in the first lot?

Should I double down and press the seller for some sort of compensation on the first lot because of their typo?

Would anyone let the seller know about the $1000+ card embedded in an assorted lot after the "sweep the problem under the rug" response on the first lot?

My card conundrum.

If you were the seller, would you want the buyer to inform you of the more expensive mix-up? Do you think you are doing something dishonest if you keep the card?

I'm not making a judgement either way, but only you know the answer, nobody else's opinion matters.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would thank them for the offer of letting you return it. Tell them you will keep it and thank them for the transactions and wish them a great day.

Originally Posted by BobC

+1 No sense poking the bear. Sounds like you already came out ahead, why go for some bad karma.

I would check with them again though and inquire about the balance of the one year you thought you were getting. I would be nice and thank them for the return offer, and politely decline, and then without being too over the top, mention how you were really hoping to get the balance of the cards from the one year, and if they still had them, is there any way they could work out a deal with you? You're already playing with house money, so to speak, so it can't hurt to ask. They may not want to give you money back on the value difference, but if you offer to buy more, they may be more inclined to cut you a break. You never know, they might give you a heck of a deal on the price to help make up for what you thought you were supposed to get. Doesn't hurt to ask nicely, worst they can do is so no. Good luck.

As I should respond back today, I am following the routes above....I'll call it the karma route.

Originally Posted by todeen

I would consider myself in the wrong to press for cards missing while refusing to let the seller know they made a mistake that is benefiting me far greater than my loss.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Jim65

If you were the seller, would you want the buyer to inform you of the more expensive mix-up? Do you think you are doing something dishonest if you keep the card?

I'm not making a judgement either way, but only you know the answer, nobody else's opinion matters.

As a seller also, yes, I would appreciate a buyer letting me know that I did not deliver what was advertised and sent something more/less expensive. I am not perfect and have done this myself....about half the time the buyer lets me know, the other half of the time I dont discover my mistake until after I have sold to someone else the item I mistakenly sent previously.

In my intial post I made a mistake by saying the lot was "supposed to be an assorted lot of unspecified low to mid-grade commons". It should have read "expected" instead of supposed. Obviously later in the post I used the word I meant to use, "expected".

Based on the seller's description of the lot, it specified a year, make, condition range, quantity of cards and the fact that there would be duplication. One scan showed a few cards from the lot, not including the expensive card. There were no other specifics mentioned in the description, including what cards would be included. Since what I received with this second lot was all well within the seller's description, I don't think I should feel bad about keeping something that was within the seller's description, but simply not expected.


My concern with the first lot was I did not receive what was advertised. In this second lot I did receive what was advertised, it just contained a card I didn't expect to receive.

If the 'bonus" card was of the same player, but from a different year (one not advertised in the listing), I would agree the correct thing to do would be to let the seller know of their mistake as I would have received something not as advertised.

Thank you all for the feedback.

[brad15]

In the Ozarks, that's called "cutting a fat hog in the ass".

[RCMcKenzie]

What is the "good" card? Is it a Mickey Mantle? A 59 Topps Gibson in vg is worth like $400, so it's not something like that. What is it?

How big are they? I wouldn't return it to Walmart, but I would let a fellow collector know there was a 56 Topps Mantle in his stack of 56 Commons. I don't really understand.

[Exhibitman]

There are three answers here: return both, keep both, return the bad lot and keep the good one. Keeping them both. IMO, is an intellectually inconsistent answer. A mistake in your favor or a mistake against you are flip sides of the same coin, so the answer should be return both if you are bothered by the idea of getting an advantage. If it doesn't bother you, then return the one that disfavors you and keep the other one.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

What is the "good" card? Is it a Mickey Mantle? A 59 Topps Gibson in vg is worth like $400, so it's not something like that. What is it?

How big are they? I wouldn't return it to Walmart, but I would let a fellow collector know there was a 56 Topps Mantle in his stack of 56 Commons. I don't really understand.

Not important what the specific card involved is, but it has a market value of around $1k. It was not a "collector" I bought these lots from; it was a for-profit dealer. As mentioned previously, this dealer's inattention to the information contained in the first listing caused a min. difference in value of $350, not to my benefit. The second lot was "as described" and the unexpected card was well within the listing's description. The original question was really more how hard, if at all, do I push for compensation on the first lot considering the unexpected card found in the second lot.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There are three answers here: return both, keep both, return the bad lot and keep the good one. Keeping them both. IMO, is an intellectually inconsistent answer. A mistake in your favor or a mistake against you are flip sides of the same coin, so the answer should be return both if you are bothered by the idea of getting an advantage. If it doesn't bother you, then return the one that disfavors you and keep the other one.

The seller gave me an option to return the first lot, due to it being not-as-described. I chose to keep the first lot. The seller apologized but did not offer any compensation for their error. I thought about returning the first lot, and when relisted bidding on it again. Likely the bidding went as high as it did originally due to the seller's error in the listing. So maybe I win it for half the amount next time....maybe not, just not worth the hassle.

The second lot was as described, the unexpected card met the advertised description of the listing. Was the overall value of this lot more than expected, for sure....finding unexpected value is a primary reason I regularly buy lots. Therefore, I am not bothered by getting an advantage with this lot or any other lot that is as described.

My original question focuses on how hard, if at all, should I push the seller (and possibly upset them) on the variance in value of the first lot caused by their error in the description given the unexpected value of the second lot.

In other words, should I just view these two lots as single transaction and considering I am ahead value wise on the entire transaction, move on and not hassle/upset the dealer.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Not important what the specific card involved is, but it has a market value of around $1k. It was not a "collector" I bought these lots from; it was a for-profit dealer. As mentioned previously, this dealer's inattention to the information contained in the first listing caused a min. difference in value of $350, not to my benefit. The second lot was "as described" and the unexpected card was well within the listing's description. The original question was really more how hard, if at all, do I push for compensation on the first lot considering the unexpected card found in the second lot.

If it's not important to you, then It's certainly not important to me. It's none of my business.

If it's a "yellow tiger" or whatever, I think that's different than a star card. I would have just kept them both and counted my blessings. If it were me, and I complained about the first lot, with my luck the seller would revisit the 2nd lot, and say hey, did I accidentally give you a yellow tiger card? Can you send that back?

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

The second lot was "as described" and the unexpected card was well within the listing's description.

The OP was awkwardly worded, but if I sussed it out correctly, you got a $1000 card mistakenly included in a lot that would otherwise be worth $350. The notion that the valuable card fits within the technical description of the lot strikes me as motivated reasoning. You are trying to lawyer your way into surreptitiously taking advantage of the seller's second error while concurrently trying to get him to make correct his original error (unrelated to the valuable card.)

From here, there is only one question that has to be asked and only one person who can answer it. That question is, assuming you keep the valuable card without telling the dealer, whether you can feel good about it when you look at yourself in the mirror. I couldn't, but I've always been something of a stuffed shirt.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

The OP was awkwardly worded, but if I sussed it out correctly, you got a $1000 card mistakenly included in a lot that would otherwise be worth $350. The notion that the valuable card fits within the technical description of the lot strikes me as motivated reasoning. You are trying to lawyer your way into surreptitiously taking advantage of the seller's second error while concurrently trying to get him to make correct his original error (unrelated to the valuable card.)

From here, there is only one question that has to be asked and only one person who can answer it. That question is, assuming you keep the valuable card without telling the dealer, whether you can feel good about it when you look at yourself in the mirror. I couldn't, but I've always been something of a stuffed shirt.

I can certainly agree that the 1st post was not worded well. However, there is no possible way to know if this $1k card was intentionally or mistakenly included in the lot. On my end, this card was merely unexpected. Clearly this seller has problems accurately describing the contents of the lots offered, perhaps the seller's only error was not mentioning in the second lot's description that this $1k card was included. Either way, I decided to keep the NAD lot without a discount, viewing both lots as a single transaction.

So, I feel just fine looking in the mirror when receiving a card with higher-than-expected value, in which the card aligns with the listing's description, without reaching out to the seller to confirm it was indeed supposed to be included in the lot. It's understandable that not everyone would agree with this stance.

However, if this seller were to contact me and disclose that this card was sent in error and I denied that I had the card or ignored the seller's message altogether, yes, I would not feel good about my decision. Since I have received no messages on this topic from the seller, again, I feel just fine about my decision to keep the card w/o me contacting them.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

However, there is no possible way to know if this $1k card was intentionally or mistakenly included in the lot.

Actually, there is a very easy way to know that. You could ask. Of course, that runs the risk that he may be deceptive in his communications and that would complicate getting to the desired outcome.

[RCMcKenzie]

The reason I said I don't really understand, is because I don't have enough information.

HA had a lot last week that I was looking at. !952 Topps lot of 140 cards, around vg. They showed 8 commons, and did not list the numbers. The lot went for a lot more than I bid. If they included a Mickey Mantle in the lot, I think it's okay to walk away with it.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

Actually, there is a very easy way to know that. You could ask. Of course, that runs the risk that he may be deceptive in his communications and that would complicate getting to the desired outcome.

Based on your posts, it is clear that you do not agree with the fact that I am keeping this card, which is perfectly fair. To help me understand where you are coming from, please share your parameters as to when a buyer should contact a seller in regard to an unexpected card found in a lot.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

The reason I said I don't really understand, is because I don't have enough information.

HA had a lot last week that I was looking at. !952 Topps lot of 140 cards, around vg. They showed 8 commons, and did not list the numbers. The lot went for a lot more than I bid. If they included a Mickey Mantle in the lot, I think it's okay to walk away with it.

I prefer to not provide any additional information on the purchase or seller, as over the years the lots have been a source of variations that have been included in previously purchased lots.

[steve B]

I would probably just think of it as two lots from a single transaction.
If I'd bought them at an in person auction that's what they would be.

I'd keep both, even viewed individually, sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't.


A couple examples,

I bought a big batch of British cigarette cards on ebay. Probably a couple thousand. They're usually found in sets, and nice condition. These were not listed as sets of being in good shape, and in fact weren't. They were as the pics showed. Still a big bunch of pretty neat stuff.
ANd the packing material! at first I was nervous, as it appeared to be a large flat rate box full of 91 Score baseball..... Some of which had gotten damaged when the box bounced around the postal service. The lot I bought was buried inside the sacrificial junk wax.
And on the bottom? A complete 92 score set in a binder and pages.
I sold the "packing material" at a yard sale for more than the whole lot plus shipping.

Bought a block of four stamps for a pretty good price. Dealer that has a rep for not exactly having proper descriptions, but who does huge volume and misses varieties often enough to keep an eye on.
Package arrives, and it was a block at one point, but isn't it's two pairs. Looked closely at the scans, and knowing it's not really a block I can see how the listing employee carefully place them to look like the block it was advertised as.
Now the catch. One of the stamps has a variety I want. The catalog value for a block is a lot more than I paid, but the catalog value for two hinged singles and two not hinged singles is higher still. So I didn't get what I expected, but actually got a more valuable group of stamps. that were the exact ones I'd bid on... (I did sort of really want a block thought... )
I called them like their listings say "any problems call us!" Ok then.
Laid it all out for him, and he was like "and? What do you want? " I told him I would keep them, but wanted him to know about the underhanded listing as someone else would probably not do the math a make a whole thing out of it. (and maybe just maybe some understanding and a free shipping coupon or a small discount- even lie $1-2 would have been cool. )
Nope, he seemed annoyed. Like literally "ok, whatever. what else can I do for you?"

Just said nope just wanted you to know like your listings say, any problem call us. Bye.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Based on your posts, it is clear that you do not agree with the fact that I am keeping this card, which is perfectly fair. To help me understand where you are coming from, please share your parameters as to when a buyer should contact a seller in regard to an unexpected card found in a lot.

Let me put it this way. I am nobody to you, so whether I agree or disagree shouldn't matter to you. And apparently it doesn't, so all good. But, let me explain how I think about it. First off, I am a post-war, mid grade, raw set builder. I am not made of money and I am always looking for good deals. Acquiring the big ticket cards for sets necessarily means other hobby activity have to stop for an extended period of time. It takes me years to complete sets.

If I go to a show and a dealer has a box labeled “100 miscellaneous 1955 Topps - $500” it is natural (for me anyways) to assume that it is a box of commons. It may have some minor stars, but it's mostly commons. 1955 commons may be selling in other contexts for $6 or more each, and it is possible that he mistakenly underpriced them. But, It is more likely that he is just pricing them to move, so looks like an deal to me. Now, say I get home and find a 1955 Jackie Robinson mixed into that lot. I’m presented with one of two conclusions:

1. I can assume he meant it to be there because that ’55 Jackie *is* technically a miscellaneous card, feel relieved that I don’t have spend 4 months of hobby budget to get a copy, and keep my windfall on the down low. Or…
2. He made a mistake by including it, because if he had so intended and has at least two functioning neurons inside his melon, he would have noted that on the box’s label that it included one of the keystone cards in the set and possibly priced it appropriately.

Of course, it may be a cognitive failure on my part, but I can’t get to the first option without mental gymnastics and the lawyerly parsing of words. YMMV

[steve B]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

Let me put it this way. I am nobody to you, so whether I agree or disagree shouldn't matter to you. And apparently it doesn't, so all good. But, let me explain how I think about it. First off, I am a post-war, mid grade, raw set builder. I am not made of money and I am always looking for good deals. Acquiring the big ticket cards for sets necessarily means other hobby activity have to stop for an extended period of time. It takes me years to complete sets.

If I go to a show and a dealer has a box labeled “100 miscellaneous 1955 Topps - $500” it is natural (for me anyways) to assume that it is a box of commons. It may have some minor stars, but it's mostly commons. 1955 commons may be selling in other contexts for $6 or more each, and it is possible that he mistakenly underpriced them. But, It is more likely that he is just pricing them to move, so looks like an deal to me. Now, say I get home and find a 1955 Jackie Robinson mixed into that lot. I’m presented with one of two conclusions:

1. I can assume he meant it to be there because that ’55 Jackie *is* technically a miscellaneous card, feel relieved that I don’t have spend 4 months of hobby budget to get a copy, and keep my windfall on the down low. Or…
2. He made a mistake by including it, because if he had so intended and has at least two functioning neurons inside his melon, he would have noted that on the box’s label that it included one of the keystone cards in the set and possibly priced it appropriately.

Of course, it may be a cognitive failure on my part, but I can’t get to the first option without mental gymnastics and the lawyerly parsing of words. YMMV

I've bought lots like that.
Some were things that were not much at the time but ended up being good. Like a monster box of hockey that included an entire Gretzky rookie year Topps set. At the time the $50 was very reasonable, but not an absolute steal.


Another was in a different hobby where small differences matter. (actually I've had a number of things like this in that hobby)
I was looking at a lot on ebay, and one stamp looked like a really expensive one. Did everything I could to be sure of it, and decided I wasn't crazy or seeing what I wanted to see.
Got it in, and that one was in its own little envelope that stated the catalog number and that it needed a certificate.
A few years later I did actually send it off and it got a certificate as genuine (all they did at the time)
So several hundered dollars of catalog value in a $30 lot. And the dealer knew for sure it was there. My dealer friend said sometimes they just don't care, like if the seller usually did stuff that was much more expensive their time to send it off might not be worth it!