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#1
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: JohnnyH
Everyone always says all players care about these days is money, is that how many collectors are becoming ? Especially the newer ones ? How will this affect the hobby as many cards begin to either lose or not gain any value over the upcoming years if the collectors are only concerned with increased value instead of having a true love for the hobby. The continued talk of investment of cards is only asking for a big letdown, especially in high graded cards in my opinion ( unless they are very rare ). It only takes a couple of people to drive the price way beyond insanity, but who is going to take their place and be there to buy them when the time comes to sell in 5-10 years or longer ? My concern with investing in cards would be that the core big time buyers are older and who is going to replace them ? With baseball becoming not much more popular than hockey how is that going to affect vintage cards ? Many vintage collectors lived through the 1950's, 60's, and 70's when baseball was a part of the american fabric so they can probably justify spending large amounts of cash to touch the past they long for , but that is no longer the case and needs to be considered I would think. With all this talk of investing in cards, without increases in value ( which I do not see except in the rarest of cards ) won't the negative talk of over value and stale market take affect and cause the money only collectors to jump ship as quickly as they jumped on ? It will make it easier for true collectors to get some nice cards at good price, but might cause an investor collector to pull their hair out and jump off a bridge. |
#2
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
Shhh! |
#3
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Rhett Yeakley
Johnny, I think you underestimate the number of younger collectors out there that are in the Vintage card market. The late 20-somethings & those in their 30's are the same kids that collected in the 80's-90's baseball card boom, and while those cards did not hold their value many of the collecors of those items moved towards the pre-war market. Thus, I think you would be surprised at the number of under-40 collectors there are out there (actually this forum is a good example of that). Also, the # of these collectors is likely to rise as those same individuals who collected Baseball Cards as kids begin to have more discretionary spending money. |
#4
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
I think the idea that baseball is only as popular as hockey isn't quite accurate. Two seasons ago, Major League Baseball broke its all-time attendance record. They would have broken it again last year had there not been a bunch of games cancelled due to the hurricane. I remember reading two years ago that something like 76 million people attended MINOR league games during the year. |
#5
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: James Gallo
Well I am one of those 30 something guys collecting prewar cards. I collected with my dad in the 80s and 90s and got back into things a few years ago when I got bored with my other hobby. I greatly enjoy cards, pehaps more then past hobbies. |
#6
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: barrysloate
Johnny touched on a point I've been concerned about for a long time. The golden age of baseball memorabilia collecting, which began in the late 1970's and early 1980's, was fueled entirely by the baby boomers who were coming of age. They began by buying the baseball cards of their childhood, and many branched out into vintage cards and the like. |
#7
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Anthony S.
The last few World Series have outdrawn the Stanley Cup in terms of US TV viewers by a factor of over 5 to 1. Hockey may enjoy high popularity in a few US cities and with our esteemed brethren to the North, and I will readily concede it's a fun game to watch in person and the playoffs can be pretty cool, but in terms of widespread appeal it remains in the eyes of slack-jawed masses, ie me, merely hockey. |
#8
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Boy Al, you sound like a guy who's hoping that his investment in his baseball cards keeps its value. |
#9
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Donavon Arabie
This is a very interesting discussion...one that my wife & I have actually discussed lately. I was amazed with her input. I actually wanted to put my '39 Goudey set on the auction block to buy a new boat. The wife said "NO" (fairly convincingly too). Her reason...you cannot replace history. You can always buy a boat. Needless to say...I'm gonna' have to keep the set & the wife. I am a 30-something myself. As for as my childhood 70's & 80's collection...well, that has all been sold. However, my love for collecting has not diminished. I simply "invest" in the pre-war cards I always dreamed of having as a kid. You know...the Cobb's, Mathewson's, & Lajoie's we all drooled over at card shows in the 80's. I've lost thousands in the stock market over the years. However, I don't think I've lost a dime on any baseball card I've invested in except maybe a few of those steroid junkies cards from the 80's. I've seen prices realized on pre-war cards continue to rise, even through a recession. I just don't see a fallout when people actually do have money to spend again. And...even if there is a fallout, who wouldn't want to own a piece of history? Just my two cents. |
#10
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: JohnnyH
It is good to hear baseball is still alive and strong, but it sure seems to be slowly fading from the youth but hopefully not. I am one of the under 40 collectors and am surprised to hear there is a good amount of younger people getting into vintage and history of baseball, that is wonderful! I live in the 'hockey state' so my view is skewed. I do feel a ceiling has been reached as far as value goes on many cards, but as long as new blood enters the hobby it will keep going strong. |
#11
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
Jeff, the card market is going to crash and burn. |
#12
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
We, also, are very interested in paying below market rates for penultimate collections. |
#13
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Red
If you collect 50s and older cards traditionally after 5-10 years youll do very well on the investment you made into your collection. You may take a few hits on some items but overall your collection as a whole will increase in value. If you collect modern cards thinking it will be a good investment for 5-10 years down the road, forget it. |
#14
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Marty Ogelvie
I don't collect cards for investment purposes. I just don't. I don't think what the value the card might be in 10 to 15 years. When I am buying a card, I think about the player on the card, the collectors who may have owned in the past. I think about how to display the card, what to tell admirers of the card but I do NOT give one second thought about the future value of the card? I collect for the joy of collecting, period. If the cards are worth something down the road, my kids or grandkids will find out, not me. |
#15
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Rob D.
Jim, |
#16
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Eric Brehm
Marty, I second that sentiment. Although if I ever reach a point where I can't pay for the necessities of life anymore, I know where I can go to raise some money. Hopefully that won't be necessary and my kids will get the stuff. I have a 20-year old son who is a sports nut, knows baseball history back to the beginning, and is as interested in the vintage cards as he is in the stuff from the modern era. |
#17
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Dustan Hedlin
I'm one of the younger collectors out there who used to collect the shiny stuff. I'm 27. I started collecting in 1990 when I was 8, and collected nothing but modern until about 2 years ago. As companies kept churning out the exact same product year after year, and as packs got into the $100 range with a chance for a Jason Bay autograph in every pack, I slowly got out of modern. I still do collect some modern cards, but it's mostly Ken Griffey Jr. because he was my favorite player when I was a kid. I used to have over 2300 different Griffey cards, but now I am down to about 40-50, mostly autographs. |
#18
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
Rob, |
#19
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Michael C
Go back and read the thread from a few weeks ago where Leon asked everyone 10 questions, one of which was age. you will find there were dozens of board members who were under 40. In fact, I bet the average age was right around 40 (the age where you have a good amount of disposable income). |
#20
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: JohnnyH
Michael that is a great point and it is good to see such a diversity in age. It seems that most truly love collecting for the history and challenge of putting together player and team sets and subsets and type collections. I was reading through Bruce post on investment and hedges and was really surprised to see that in the 2500+ per card market there is only 100 serious collectors, and my guess is that out of those 100 most are over 40. Of course that really doesn't affect the average collector, but it really is a small world after all. |
#21
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
JohnnyH, |
#22
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: david Poses
I'm 33. Was a baseball nut in the 80s and collected everything I could get my hands on. I remember wanting any T206 but they were always in the extra thick plastic screwdown cases at the card shows with price stickers of like a gazillion dollars on them. (I don't know where all you people with the $5 T206 Ty Cobbs in the 80's saw them). I focused on girls instead of cards in the 90s and dropped out of the hobby. |
#23
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: boxingcardman
On some cards I collect strictly for fun. I don't expect that they will make any real money over time and I don't really care because I spend less on whole sets of them than on a nice meal at a fine restaurant. I just enjoy having them. In that category you can definitely place cards from the sets issued when I was a kid (like Star Trek, James Bond, Kung Fu, late 1970s baseball, etc.). They are just purely nostalgia and relaxation for me. Other cards, I fully expect will hold value or grow in value over time. |
#24
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: leon
I am actually happy there is another person with my exact feelings. I thought I was the only one who thought that the new Major League baseball is a piece of poopoo. I think it has been ruined on many different levels and I probably can't name 15 of today's players, nor do I care to. I do like the minor league games and my family and I still go to them. They are a lot of fun, cheap, and the guys look like they are having fun even sans multi-million dollar a year contracts. I don't care if the players make that kind of big money but it seems they whine about everything and then if they don't get their way they go on strike. Great game. Not. |
#25
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Erich
Based on the personal collecting thread, there are many of us in the Forum that represent the 'new' generation of collectors. I'm 27, and started collecting pre-war 2 years ago. Like many, I got hooked in the early 90's when my Mom got me that first pack of 1991 topps. And the rest is history, or so they say. |
#26
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: JohnnyH
I guess it really is both collecting and an investment as so much cash is traded back and forth and value is attached. After thinking about it nothing will really change, especially with all the younger collectors getting involved. I guess the golden age set the standard prices and grading really changed everything. The fact that the game today is so garbage might actually help vintage and the history of baseball, although the same things said today were said when Babe Ruth and all the power hitters changed the game forever, minus all the steriod issues. I guess I wont be getting any Cobb's or Ruth's at a deep discount anytime soon so I better start saving. |
#27
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Doug
I'm 28 and I actually bought my first vintage card (a EX 1952 Topps Willie Mays) 11 years ago. As far as the investment part goes I'm usually content to get my money back when I sell a card. I try not to let my accumulation of cards to get over a certain dollar amount so I usually end up selling cards I've had for a while in order to pick up new ones. As long as I'm not losing money (at least too much) I'm not that concerned about the investment end of things considering I usually don't hold onto anything long enough for it to go up in value any noticeable amount. |
#28
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Anonymous
Investing or collecting |
#29
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jamie Boneparth
I remember as a kid in the eighties, some kid had a tobacco card, a T206, and it just amazed me. He said it was worth $100, and I gave him some real nice rookies from the 70's, really about half my collection, to get the card. Turned out it was only worth about $10, and I never got my stuff back. |
#30
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
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#31
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
Are you talking to me? |
#32
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Erick Lewin
.....Never a dull moment on this board!...... |
#33
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
OK. You edited your post, so I guess you were. |
#34
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
"Better get that other line. I think Joann is calling for advice." |
#35
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: David Atkatz
Another pompous pronouncement by the Dorskind Group. |
#36
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jamie Boneparth
Apparently there are those who can not only disagree, but must turn everything into a bet for money. I suppose it is an attempt to back the other person into a corner where if they refuse the bet, there is an implicit admission that they are wrong. I remember kids pulling this ploy when I was at summer camp. |
#37
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Tim
I approach the hobby as a collector. However I feel that what we do is more of an investment than many other hobbies. |
#38
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Bob
"With baseball becoming not much more popular than hockey" |
#39
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Cat
Some of you guys sell these cards for a profit? Hmmm |
#40
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: John Cook
I find this a fascinating subject because, like most serious collectors, I have spent a lot of time trying to justifying putting even more money into my collection by thinking of it as an investment. Anyway, here are my thoughts: |
#41
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Robert Dixon
I am 29 years old. I've collected baseball cards for most of my life, and most of the cards that I collected as a kid aren't worth the paper/ink used to print them. I enjoyed collecting them, but at some point I couldn't justify burning my money anymore, so I stopped. Now I collect vintage cards almost exclusively. I love collecting cards, but for me to continue to spend money on a hobby, I need to know that I can get some of my money back if I need to. I don't have a very high "disposable income", so if I spend $100 on a card, I need to know that I can get my $100(+/-) back if I need to. So while baseball cards are not my retirement plan, I do consider them to be somewhat of an investment. |
#42
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: boxingcardman
Investor: Honey, I just invested in a 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth. It is the classic gum card of the greatest player ever. Over time it has held its value and then some. Besides, what was I supposed to do with the money, buy stock? |
#43
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Eric Brehm
Well here is some data regarding the appreciation in value of baseball cards in recent times. |
#44
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: MJ
Eric, super nice post; great financial break-down. |
#45
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jerry
Does anybody know who I can call for advice on some Gratefull Dead Memoralbilia? |
#46
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Investing or collecting
Posted By: Jim VB
"Does anybody know who I can call for advice on some Gratefull Dead Memoralbilia?" |
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