Different take on Trimming/Grading...

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

He said that it's the grading company's fault, not those that scam them and then customers afterwards.

I think he had a wee bit too much Pabst before he made this post.

-Stan Golen

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Ah, so the utterly inept grading company gets a pass....

The degree of denial/deflection here is disheartening.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ah, so the utterly inept grading company gets a pass....



The degree of denial/deflection here is disheartening.

Who said that? Here's his rant, judge for yourself

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[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ah, so the utterly inept grading company gets a pass....

The degree of denial/deflection here is disheartening.

Nobody's saying that. The problem is he was absolving the actual fraudsters. I think most of us agree there's plenty of blame to go around, but the people who were acting with intent to defraud are, for most of us, the worst of a bad bunch.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Here's the OP:

"I keep telling myself who the hell has the right to tell somebody they can't alter anything they own? If you understand the law this is not illegal. You can do whatever you want to your cards. If PSA/BGS/SGC grades the card then that is on there service standards not the guy doing it. This has been going on for over 25 years.

If somebody is selling a card that is trimmed on ebay and you win it, Simply return it, the buyer always wins the case..

Grading companies are never going to even be close to consistent. The whole grading on new cards is a crock of #@#@#@#@ to begin with. The people who pay stupid money for black labels and PSA 10 need to be checked in the head to begin with. There are most likely PSA 9 and BGS 9 of the same quality of card on the market. Vintage cards should just be given an authentic by grading companies and let the people determine the condition on there own.

The people calling out others for trimming cards and finding evidence need to go to the local trophy shop and have one made up for yourself. I hope your proud of your nothing accomplishment.

I understand there is real corruption in any business, but the guy trimming the cards is not doing something illegal, its simply the grading company not having high enough standards. The sad part is the same fools calling out people for trimming will complain when they get their future PSA orders back with trimmed cards. But But I pulled it straight from a Pack??? Well sir you should learn not #@#@#@#@ where you eat because you just made PSA raise their standards......

Ill get this out of the way. I don't trim or alter cards. I simply can see past the foolishness around this topic."

- Jeff Francis

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Here's the OP:

"I keep telling myself who the hell has the right to tell somebody they can't alter anything they own? If you understand the law this is not illegal. You can do whatever you want to your cards. If PSA/BGS/SGC grades the card then that is on there service standards not the guy doing it. This has been going on for over 25 years.

If somebody is selling a card that is trimmed on ebay and you win it, Simply return it, the buyer always wins the case..

Grading companies are never going to even be close to consistent. The whole grading on new cards is a crock of #@#@#@#@ to begin with. The people who pay stupid money for black labels and PSA 10 need to be checked in the head to begin with. There are most likely PSA 9 and BGS 9 of the same quality of card on the market. Vintage cards should just be given an authentic by grading companies and let the people determine the condition on there own.

The people calling out others for trimming cards and finding evidence need to go to the local trophy shop and have one made up for yourself. I hope your proud of your nothing accomplishment.

I understand there is real corruption in any business, but the guy trimming the cards is not doing something illegal, its simply the grading company not having high enough standards. The sad part is the same fools calling out people for trimming will complain when they get their future PSA orders back with trimmed cards. But But I pulled it straight from a Pack??? Well sir you should learn not #@#@#@#@ where you eat because you just made PSA raise their standards......

Ill get this out of the way. I don't trim or alter cards. I simply can see past the foolishness around this topic."

- Jeff Francis

I agree with one statement made above.... this has been going on for over 25 years....people who think it hasn’t been are not thinking logically....it’s a very sad state of affairs...the level of corruption and malfeasance just keeps growing....why? Because it’s very difficult to hold any TPG accountable... it’s just an opinion....people are benefiting on almost every end so people stay hush...guys are passionate about the sport/hobby...guys with money/collectors are passionate about the registry.....dealers/auction houses are passionate about making money using their services....it benefits more to keep business as usual...it’s so sad.....we either have to accept the fact the industry is the way it is... or find something new to find enjoyment in.......

I won’t say, don’t take a dump where you eat...it’s more like don’t bite the hand that feeds you....in my view many benefiting have this philosophy they want the gravy train to continue

[Kenny Cole]

Or you could choose to be honest and disclose what you know happened to your card, particularly if you are the one who did it. Pretty simple. And, when you sell a card that you trimmed, it is fraud irrespective of whether the TPG catches it or not. I'm not absolving the TPGers, because it has been made pretty clear that they are doing an abysmal job of performing what they advertise they explicitly say they can do.

But that doesn't matter insofar as the trimmer is concerned. If you trim then sell without disclosure, that is the textbook definition of fraud. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I agree with one statement made above.... this has been going on for over 25 years....people who think it hasn’t been are not thinking logically....it’s a very sad state of affairs...the level of corruption and malfeasance just keeps growing....why? Because it’s very difficult to hold any TPG accountable... it’s just an opinion....people are benefiting on almost every end so people stay hush...guys are passionate about the sport/hobby...guys with money/collectors are passionate about the registry.....dealers/auction houses are passionate about making money using their services....it benefits more to keep business as usual...it’s so sad.....we either have to accept the fact the industry is the way it is... or find something new to find enjoyment in.......

Sure, but some are being duped into paying top prices for altered cards. Maybe they don't care, but I bet most would.

This is different than back before grading, grading gives alot of people comfort, but that comfort is an illusion.

Even worse are the Brents of the world, who provide an avenue for the scammers.

-Stan Golen

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[steve B]

Ah, ok.

I read the Pabst bit of the comment as saying that he was wrong to blame the grading companies.

I think all three parties are to blame, the people doing the alterations and using the inept grading companies opinions to hide behind, the grading companies that just can't seem to get it right, and the people who act as .. what's the word, fence isn't quite right.

I almost blame the grading companies more. They hold themselves out as experts, but aren't even close. And they have advertised themselves into the position where their opinion can be used as a shield for fraud - "PSA says it's a 5 so it's a 5, what do I know, I'm just a hobbyist/reseller"

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ah, ok.

I read the Pabst bit of the comment as saying that he was wrong to blame the grading companies.

I think all three parties are to blame, the people doing the alterations and using the inept grading companies opinions to hide behind, the grading companies that just can't seem to get it right, and the people who act as .. what's the word, fence isn't quite right.

I almost blame the grading companies more. They hold themselves out as experts, but aren't even close. And they have advertised themselves into the position where their opinion can be used as a shield for fraud - "PSA says it's a 5 so it's a 5, what do I know, I'm just a hobbyist/reseller"

Agree... and it's the grading companies that enable the entire scandal to perpetuate. Once the butchered card is sealed into the prized slab, it is "gold".