Poll: Final Hammer Price - 1914 BN Babe Ruth vs the 1952 Rosen Topps Mantle

[raulus]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Which part of the $7.2M is going to the auction house? The $0 part?

HA.

Typically an AH is not operated on an eleemosynary basis. My assumption is that they would get at least 5% of the $6M hammer. Said another way, the AH might only keep 5% of the 20% BP. But I guess you never know on a piece like this precisely what the parties negotiated.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why say charitable when you can say eleemosynary?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by raulus

HA.

Typically an AH is not operated on an eleemosynary basis. My assumption is that they would get at least 5% of the $6M hammer. Said another way, the AH might only keep 5% of the 20% BP. But I guess you never know on a piece like this precisely what the parties negotiated.

REA received more publicity than it’s ever gotten in its entire existence with this Ruth card - and Brian was fantastic with it. REA made huge strides in reaching areas of the marketplace that no other AH besides Christie’s and Sotheby’s ever have seen. I’m pretty sure the fee on this card was 0.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by calvindog

REA received more publicity than it’s ever gotten in its entire existence with this Ruth card - and Brian was fantastic with it. REA made huge strides in reaching areas of the marketplace that no other AH besides Christie’s and Sotheby’s ever have seen. I’m pretty sure the fee on this card was 0.

Awesome. If so, then that's a great deal to the consignor.

[brianp-beme]

As a reminder, this card was graded as a '3', while most of us, including myself, thought this looked like a '1' or '1-1/2'. I think a true Vg card would have attracted even more high rollers and go for quite a few more McMillions.

Brian

[bcbgcbrcb]

Agreed, the card was overgraded. However, it might still be the second best example extant. I cannot speak to that as I am not familiar with the other nine known except that one was graded a 4 and a few were either 1's or 1.5's.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

As a reminder, this card was graded as a '3', while most of us, including myself, thought this looked like a '1' or '1-1/2'. I think a true Vg card would have attracted even more high rollers and go for quite a few more McMillions.

Brian

^ THIS. As I studied the photo of the Ruth with the other Baltimore News cards from the same collection of the family, the red of the Ruth looked decidedly tired. I shan't jump on the grenade about why this is so, but I would think the bidders / potential bidders weren't blind to the card's appearance in contrast to its brothers, either

I was among the individuals who voted the BN Ruth would not sell for as much as the SGC 9.5 Gem Mint '52 Topps Mickey Mantle. No big deal there, but just a reminder the Mantle is a gem, whereas the recent REA BN Ruth looked the worse for wear, AND over-graded. It is a great card, and sold for well over 15 times the previous example sold. Further, that sale was the prime condition Baltimore News Ruth. Just as Mr. Mint Alan Rosen pounded the table in one of his 2 books-----in home buying, the key is "LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION". In card collecting, Alan stressed, the key is "CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION".

Yes, the Baltimore News Babe Ruth is rare, regally rare, all day and all night. Nevertheless, a lesser condition example may not get the bucks Ruth fans think. It didn't.

That BN Ruth is by all means a great card---just as it is. It's obviously just not a $12.7 million card. Don't let it ruin your day, or year. Besides, just around the corner might come a better Baltimore News Babe, and the sparks will fly. I hope. --- Brian Powell (I was not an underbidder.)

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

This card was purchased for about $5mm less than two years ago. Last night it sells for $7.2mm - a $2.2mm (44%) increase in two years, which is 22% per year. How on god’s green earth is that result a “failure”? It isn’t. Instead, there was a ton of hype and the result did not meet the hype. But the result was very good. The hype was BS. The BN Ruth was worth $5mm two years ago. Now it’s worth $7.2mm. Seems to me, that is pretty darn positive

Spot on Ryan! Also, consider that the BN Ruth (in the exact same grade) outperformed the SGC 3 T206 Wagner also sold by REA a few years ago by $0.6 million. The Wagner & 1952 Topps Mantle are the undisputed cornerstone cards in the hobby. Thus, this $7.2 million sale should be viewed as a major hobby success. We all got caught up in the “hype” of a potential eight-figure+ sale (including myself), ultimately tainting a solid $7.2 million pricing point. Crazy.

[Republicaninmass]

164 die hard people in the hobby of soley vintage aportscards were wrong, by a lot. About half before the BP.

Me shudders to think what will happen to all these bargain prices and value blue chip chasers.



Keep collecting what you like

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

164 die hard people in the hobby of soley vintage aportscards were wrong, by a lot. About half before the BP.

Me shudders to think what will happen to all these bargain prices and value blue chip chasers.



Keep collecting what you like

T3d----My cardboard conundrum continues to be the cards I really like keep going up, and up, and up. By all means, not rookie cards; I've never gravitated to that niche, strong as it is. However, the industry continues to produce post-career cards and current Aaron Judge cards I find very attractive. Somehow, my card money continues to be spent. But I love them!!!!! ---Brian Powell

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Experience from my line of work and hearing Nat Turner expressly state that they are not using it to grade cards in multiple podcast interviews.

It's not possible to grade cards with the type of scans that PSA uses. No matter how high-def the images are. You need to have a machine that takes numerous images from every different angle with light reflected at different angles as well, and then convolve those images to create a topographic map like TAG Grading does in order to even begin to grade cards. And it's just too big of a hill to climb when it comes to vintage cards because of the surfaces.

OK thanks for explaining. i'll check to see if there are any sources for guys saying otherwise. I don't necessarily trust PSA itself to be truthful, place more stock in your views informed by your expertise.

So do you think graders just have no clue how to grade vintage? Lots of stories, from reliable sources, about long time dealers getting absolutely screwed on subs and getting on average 2-3 grades lower than they expected even allowing for some tighter grading.

[Hankphenom]

As far as the grade is concerned, TPG's do grade "on the curve," don't they, with fragile issues like T205s not held to the same standard as T206s and the like? If so, that might explain the grade, which otherwise seems incredibly generous.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why say charitable when you can say eleemosynary?

Originally Posted by calvindog

REA received more publicity than it’s ever gotten in its entire existence with this Ruth card - and Brian was fantastic with it. REA made huge strides in reaching areas of the marketplace that no other AH besides Christie’s and Sotheby’s ever have seen. I’m pretty sure the fee on this card was 0.

I saw a quick story about the Ruth card on my local news outlet, so yes, lots of free advertising for REA. The story was post auction and indicated the Ruth card sold for the 3rd highest price for a baseball card behind the 52T Mantle (at $12M+) and the T206 Wags at $7.25M.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Fred

The story was post auction and indicated the Ruth card sold for the 3rd highest price for a baseball card behind the 52T Mantle (at $12M+) and the T206 Wags at $7.25M.

Exactly!! I feel this is what most people are missing bc of the hype, which created very unrealistic expectations. This is the 3rd best price ever, and it’s not a t206 Wagner nor a 1952 Topps mantle - the two most iconic cards of all time that have common-man appeal well beyond your typical collector. This is a great result and REA should be shouting this fact from the rooftop, not to mention they have now sold two of the top 3 most expensive cards/sales ever

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

As far as the grade is concerned, TPG's do grade "on the curve," don't they, with fragile issues like T205s not held to the same standard as T206s and the like?

No.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

As far as the grade is concerned, TPG's do grade "on the curve," don't they, with fragile issues like T205s not held to the same standard as T206s and the like? If so, that might explain the grade, which otherwise seems incredibly generous.

Originally Posted by BRoberts

No.

It seems to me that the curve, if there is one, is based not on which set the card is from but on who the submitter is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

It seems to me that the curve, if there is one, is based not on which set the card is from but on who the submitter is.

Animal Farm all the way.