Kurt's Card Care

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by skelly423

Second time he has announced his departure in two days. I’ll set the over/under at Monday for his next post

Hes lurking, just hasn't posted yet

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Like Bogart, you were misinformed.

I'm shocked, shocked to find that lying and fraud is going on in here!

[Neal]

Kurt used to cover the cert number in the videos. Did he get too brazen, or was it laziness?

The best card cleaners don't youtube that kinda thing in the first place...

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[Lorewalker]

I am sure PSA has banned him from submitting and there is a good chance they might have deactivated more of his submissions. I am not a fan of deactivating submissions or cards unless PSA is in possession of those cards who certs they are deactivating.

Most people do not check cert numbers on PSA's site prior to buying a PSA graded card so they have no idea they are buying something that PSA no longer recognizes as a legit card but they have put out legit money. The burden is then on the buyer to track down the person they bought it from to get a refund. GL with that.

And let's not think PSA deactivated those certs to keep the market clean and protect buyers. And if they did ban Kurt that too was not done to protect buyers. They do these things to anyone who embarrasses them.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am sure PSA has banned him from submitting and there is a good chance they might have deactivated more of his submissions. I am not a fan of deactivating submissions or cards unless PSA is in possession of those cards who certs they are deactivating.



Most people do not check cert numbers on PSA's site prior to buying a PSA graded card so they have no idea they are buying something that PSA no longer recognizes as a legit card but they have put out legit money. The burden is then on the buyer to track down the person they bought it from to get a refund. GL with that.



And let's not think PSA deactivated those certs to keep the market clean and protect buyers. And if they did ban Kurt that too was not done to protect buyers. They do these things to anyone who embarrasses them.

Agreed.

Did they decertify the Wemby 1/1? That thing is forever tainted, at least for the next few days ... after that, stuff is usually forgotten

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[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am sure PSA has banned him from submitting and there is a good chance they might have deactivated more of his submissions. I am not a fan of deactivating submissions or cards unless PSA is in possession of those cards who certs they are deactivating.

Most people do not check cert numbers on PSA's site prior to buying a PSA graded card so they have no idea they are buying something that PSA no longer recognizes as a legit card but they have put out legit money. The burden is then on the buyer to track down the person they bought it from to get a refund. GL with that.

And let's not think PSA deactivated those certs to keep the market clean and protect buyers. And if they did ban Kurt that too was not done to protect buyers. They do these things to anyone who embarrasses them.

This certainly appears to have already been an embarrassing situation for PSA. It could potentially get far worse, too. Imagine if a significant number (hundreds, thousands, maybe more) of PSA graded cards begin to present signs of exposure to chemicals.

I can imagine something similar to the "greening" issue with '90s Finest/Chrome cards.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Eric72

This certainly appears to have already been an embarrassing situation for PSA. It could potentially get far worse, too. Imagine if a significant number (hundreds, thousands, maybe more) of PSA graded cards begin to present signs of exposure to chemicals.

I can imagine something similar to the "greening" issue with '90s Finest/Chrome cards.

As sad as it is PSA is immune to consequences of any type, it seems. The 3 or 4 year period on Blowout with all those threads on altered cards that I could not keep up with after a short time was the height of damning. There had to be tens of millions of dollars in cards that were shown to be altered. Best thing ever for business for them. And the card doctors were more inspired afterwards to boot. Add to that the FBI shelving the investigation and look we we are now.

IMO, Kurt and his magic spray is a nothing burger for PSA and if cards start decomposing in the holders or whatever, we can send them in for review and I will bet the graders will stand behind the grades.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Neal

Agreed.

Did they decertify the Wemby 1/1? That thing is forever tainted, at least for the next few days ... after that, stuff is usually forgotten

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Neal I do not know the whole story on the Wemby 1/1 but it is still active. https://www.psacard.com/cert/88489182

I heard someone (the submitter or someone with the submitter) in the lobby at PSA after they handed him/them the card back, did a shout out to Kurt's Card Care. If that is the basis for people saying it should be deactivated, that is weak, imo.

Again, PSA and all TPG, need to catch stuff. If they cannot catch stuff then, put a W in the card doctor's column. Maybe there is nothing to detect...at the time of grading.

[SyrNy1960]

In the 70's, when collecting was so much simpler, we did have a guy who was known for pressing out wrinkles on cards, and he sold them at our local card shows. If someone was interested in a card that he pressed the wrinkles out, he always made buyers aware (we actually all knew him as the winkle guy), and he never charged more money than what the card would have been worth with wrinkles.

I didn't really think much of that being a bad thing back then. I'm sure more things were being done to cards back then, but never really thought much of it.

Today, this is crazy what's being done. So many cards being soaked, trimmed, re-colored, pressed out, etc., so I can see why the true card collectors are angry over it. Sad.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

In the 70's, when collecting was so much simpler, we did have a guy who was known for pressing out wrinkles on cards, and he sold them at our local card shows. If someone was interested in a card that he pressed the wrinkles out, he always made buyers aware (we actually all knew him as the winkle guy), and he never charged more money than what the card would have been worth with wrinkles.

I didn't really think much of that being a bad thing back then. I'm sure more things were being done to cards back then, but never really thought much of it.

Today, this is crazy what's being done. So many cards being soaked, trimmed, re-colored, pressed out, etc., so I can see why the true card collectors are angry over it. Sad.

For me, the issue isn't what's being done. It's the deception.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For me, the issue isn't what's being done. It's the deception.

+1. One may do whatever they wish with their property. It annoys me personally when people destroy unique uncut items and such, but my feelings don’t change whose property it is and what they are within their rights to do. Doctor a card, cut up a unique sheet, toss it into the fireplace and watch it burn, everyone may do as they wish with their rightful property. When they pass the problem to someone else with a coverup or series of lies, that’s where the problem is and is, of course, the entire point of the original alteration. It is done for profit, some by our regular scumbags who endorse defrauding people and advocate lying by omission or directly lying when selling.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

It is done for profit, some by our regular scumbags who endorse defrauding people and advocate lying by omission or directly lying when selling.

But do these scumbags you refer to rise to the level of being "shady, deceptive, and disingenuous"?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by lorewalker

but do these scumbags you refer to rise to the level of being "shady, deceptive, and disingenuous"?

100%

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Eric72

This certainly appears to have already been an embarrassing situation for PSA. It could potentially get far worse, too. Imagine if a significant number (hundreds, thousands, maybe more) of PSA graded cards begin to present signs of exposure to chemicals.

I can imagine something similar to the "greening" issue with '90s Finest/Chrome cards.

The part highlighted in bold would not surprise me one bit if and when it happens. Just a matter of the passage of time. But as stated earlier, no matter how severe the eventual degradation, PSA will steadfastly stand by the grade.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

One can only imagine that if that does happen, the same reason will be given as what is said for newer baseballs with graded gem mint 10 signatures whose autographs fade over the years. "It looked different when we saw it.". Exactly the same. Easy does it. Two completely different situations, both "rationalized" using the same excuse.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

One can only imagine that if that does happen, the same reason will be given as what is said for newer baseballs with graded gem mint 10 signatures whose autographs fade over the years. "It looked different when we saw it.". Exactly the same. Easy does it. Two completely different situations, both "rationalized" using the same excuse.

Yup.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For me, the issue isn't what's being done. It's the deception.

And the answer is always the same, "money" or better known as, greed. How many times have we seen it in the hobby?

This hobby has all of the right conditions for fraud to be rampant.
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yep. The unholy alliance of card doctors, TPGs and AHs. Perfect storm.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yep. The unholy alliance of card doctors, TPGs and AHs. Perfect storm.

The trifecta of shady, deceptive, and disingenuous.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

I don’t follow. Are you saying raw cards are somehow less susceptible to card doctoring fraud? And how would cracking out cards alleviate this?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

Sure is. I have many many thousands of cards and maybe 10-12 graded cards. Is that too many?

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I don’t follow. Are you saying raw cards are somehow less susceptible to card doctoring fraud? And how would cracking out cards alleviate this?

I believe he is referring to those that complain about grading but collect mainly high grade PSA cards. If so I also find it hilarious. If not it is far from the first time I am wrong.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

I’ve cracked thousands of slabs, and don’t have more than a couple dozen graded cards that sit in my trade bait bin. I’ve posted a pic before of a few hundred slips I’ve liberated.

Am I cleared to continue shitting on the scammers, liars, fraudsters, and dishonest people ripping people off or advocating why it’s okay to lie and cover up?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I believe he is referring to those that complain about grading but collect mainly high grade PSA cards. If so I also find it hilarious. If not it is far from the first time I am wrong.

Card altering is far from limited to high grade cards so not sure what the anonymous guy was referring to. Also fail to see any hypocrisy by those who have posted here being against card altering. To boot there are plenty of ungraded cards out there for sale that are altered. One just has to look on eBay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Card altering is far from limited to high grade cards so not sure what the anonymous guy was referring to. Also fail to see any hypocrisy by those who have posted here being against card altering. To boot there are plenty of ungraded cards out there for sale that are altered. One just has to look on eBay.

I have no issue with it if that's what people want to do, but I have never understood why removing a card from a slab is some sort of virtuous act.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no issue with it if that's what people want to do, but I have never understood why removing a card from a slab is some sort of virtuous act.

First, I am not sure if the comment he made was directed at people who have posted here being against card altering or those who have written they are against the failure of the seller to disclose the efforts made to clean up a card upon offering the card for sale.

But I agree, I am not sure how one is not a hypocrite if they buy a graded card and break it out but they are if they don't break it out. In both cases that buyer is supporting grading. And it implies or suggests that buying raw somehow makes you immune from buying an altered card...at the end of the day I guess you cannot be labeled a hypocrite so there is that.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

First, I am not sure if the comment he made was directed at people who have posted here being against card altering or those who have written they are against the failure of the seller to disclose the efforts made to clean up a card upon offering the card for sale.

But I agree, I am not sure how one is not a hypocrite if they buy a graded card and break it out but they are if they don't break it out. In both cases that buyer is supporting grading. And it implies or suggests that buying raw somehow makes you immune from buying an altered card...at the end of the day I guess you cannot be labeled a hypocrite so there is that.

I guess if you just focus on cracking out cards it does seem weird.

I more believe it to be people that constantly complain about PSAs horrible grading but collect PSA graded cards, those that complain about the AHs but buy most of their cards there, switch out AH with eBay, or those that complain about shill bidding but post about buying/consigning with known shillers. I see it as more like those examples.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I guess if you just focus on cracking out cards it does seem weird.

I more believe it to be people that constantly complain about PSAs horrible grading but collect PSA graded cards, those that complain about the AHs but buy most of their cards there, switch out AH with eBay, or those that complain about shill bidding but post about buying/consigning with known shillers. I see it as more like those examples.

So unless I only buy raw cards on the BST, or from anonymous locals at shows, I can't be pure?

[G1911]

As it is not only possible but common to collect, trade and sell raw cards honestly and it is not only possible but common to collect, trade and sell graded cards honestly, I don't get any logic behind this new complaint. I wouldn't expect much logic though, there has to be something thrown in to attempt to delegitimize any advocacy of honesty and disclosure regardless of how little sense it makes. I'm sure we'll be back to pretending that taking 2 seconds to disclose the truth of a card when selling is just so complicated tomorrow.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by G1911

There's something completely unlikable about a guy who just shamelessly lies over and over and over. Every single post (and that's not really an exaggeration) is either a humorously over-the-top brag, oft granting himself inhuman powers, or defending defrauding people and ripping them off. When he does have a fair point, he immediately ruins it by following up with a lie, fraud, or a stupid brag that should be embarrassing. It's entertaining, but it's pretty sad after awhile.


Let's see your proof, Snowman, for your posted claim that Lorewalker is lying about his identity.

If it works for a political candidate, why not a card collecting, gambling expert, data scientist card doctor?

"If you don't clean your cards, you don't love your cards as much as I love mine." - TT

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I guess if you just focus on cracking out cards it does seem weird.

I more believe it to be people that constantly complain about PSAs horrible grading but collect PSA graded cards, those that complain about the AHs but buy most of their cards there, switch out AH with eBay, or those that complain about shill bidding but post about buying/consigning with known shillers. I see it as more like those examples.

I just don't see this as black and white as that. And not sure the anonymous guy knows each of our buying habits, etc...only snowman has that ability...to make such a generalized statement.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So unless I only buy raw cards on the BST, or from anonymous locals at shows, I can't be pure?

This is why I only collect pre-war cards in the 1-5 range, give me caramel and tobacco stains, bumped corners, and wide borders any day of the week. Anything over a 6 is suspect to me.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Ben got the joke. That's all it was. See his breakdown of it. It was a general comment, not particularly directed to altering at all.

I have about 150,000 pieces. Perhaps 40 are slabbed and came to me that way. I can't stand their clunkiness or the fact that they take up so much space when they would take no room whatsoever in raw form, but we know the game: it will be easier to find new homes for them in their tombs. So yup, I can be included amongst the hypocrites, too! I would have added that to the post, but figured I'd do so shortly afterward!

And Greg, good on you for all that cracking!

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

This is why I only collect pre-war cards in the 1-5 range, give me caramel and tobacco stains, bumped corners, and wide borders any day of the week. Anything over a 6 is suspect to me.

Looking through Blowout's listing of altered cards there were plenty of 1's & 2's
that were turned into 3's & 4's.
I seemed to remember a bunch of Leaf's Jackie, Musial & Joe D. cards that were suspect, & that resulted in big money upgrades
You have to have balls to work on a T206 Wagner, not so much on a lower valued card like a Johnny Mize

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So unless I only buy raw cards on the BST, or from anonymous locals at shows, I can't be pure?

As far as I am concerned anyone can collect anyway they want. With the weird oddball stuff I collect/hoard I have no room to talk about how or what anyone collects.

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Looking through Blowout's listing of altered cards there were plenty of 1's & 2's
that were turned into 3's & 4's.
I seemed to remember a bunch of Leaf's Jackie, Musial & Joe D. cards that were suspect, & that resulted in big money upgrades
You have to have balls to work on a T206 Wagner, not so much on a lower valued card like a Johnny Mize

It is amazing how many don't seem to understand EVERYTHING at every level is being faked/altered/counterfeited/forged. It is far from just the high end stuff.

[Keith H. Thompson]

I feel that on most of the issues discussed in this thread, the path to the high moral ground has a lot of slippery slopes -- and a lot of competition.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Looking through Blowout's listing of altered cards there were plenty of 1's & 2's

that were turned into 3's & 4's.

I seemed to remember a bunch of Leaf's Jackie, Musial & Joe D. cards that were suspect, & that resulted in big money upgrades

You have to have balls to work on a T206 Wagner, not so much on a lower valued card like a Johnny Mize

Where can one find this list? Thx

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Neal

Where can one find this list? Thx

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

It wasn't a list that I read it from
Moreso many posts here on N54 that showed links to various shenanigan's that Blowout uncovered
That's where I saw the '48 Leafs

[Johnny630]

Did anyone else hear that GM was at the last Philly Show walking around?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Did anyone else hear that GM was at the last Philly Show walking around?

And why not? Nothing has changed.

[Leon]

That's a great comment, Keith!

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

I feel that on most of the issues discussed in this thread, the path to the high moral ground has a lot of slippery slopes -- and a lot of competition.

[CW]

Originally Posted by Neal

Where can one find this list? Thx

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

I don't know how current this is, but see here:

https://www.tiffanycards.com/buyer-beware

From this thread:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1289859

[parkplace33]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...?noredirect=on

I wonder if they are still investigating.... 5 years later

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...?noredirect=on

I wonder if they are still investigating.... 5 years later

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6eee106...a-333201cdcad1

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

Read my signature.

It's still an enjoyable hobby to me, not a business.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...?noredirect=on

I wonder if they are still investigating.... 5 years later

Snowballs chance in hell….it’s over

[4815162342]

“EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW: PSA President Ryan Hoge on Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More!”

Skip ahead to 38:38 for the card cleaning question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfuICkhi4s

[Leon]

I think most on this forum agree with Ryan's take on cleaning cards, me included.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

“EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW: PSA President Ryan Hoge on Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More!”

Skip ahead to 38:38 for the card cleaning question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfuICkhi4s

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9badYsGaCU0

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9badYsGaCU0

Great video and spot on!