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#1
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Guys, |
#2
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Jason L
that if there is a HOF candidate that is "on the bubble" so to speak, that he would be slighted(spelling?) just because he comes up short in comparison to his HOF family member. He should be elected or rejected on his own merits, I would think/hope. |
#3
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Bruce Babcock
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#4
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: barrysloate
Harry and George Wright are in the HOF. |
#5
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Rich Klein
Father and Son Lee and Larry McPhail are both in the HOF |
#6
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Jason, |
#7
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
I don't think either Bobby Bonds or Griffey Sr., while fine players, are even close to being worthy of HOF consideration and I imagine their sons have little or nothing to do with that shared perception. |
#8
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Josh Adams
Guys, and dolls, |
#9
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Let's examine Bobby Bonds numbers carefully, in his case he has been overshadowed by both Mays and Barry. Quite a number of Giants fans have commented that when Bobby played right field and crossed over to center he looked quite a bit like Willie. |
#10
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Josh Adams
Huh? |
#11
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Josh, |
#12
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Josh Adams
Oh, that's what you meant. |
#13
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Chris Counts
If David Eckstein were to record Bobby Bonds' career statistics, he would unquestionably be in the HOF. But whereas Eckstein is the consummate overachieving scrappy and hustling ballplayer, Bobby Bonds, justly or unjustly, was percieved of as being somewhat of a slacker. Bobby's rise coincided with my rising interest in baseball. I watched him play many times as both a Giant and an Angel during my youth. He was looked upon as an underachiever by many fans. I personally watched him sitting on the bench on numerous occassions, smoking a cigarette and appearing disinterested in the game (I have the same image of Dave Parker). Even as a youngster, I heard other second-hand tid-bits about him, which I'm hesitant to mention here, that brought up concerns about his personal character. Once he left the Giants (traded for Bobby Murcer), he kept getting traded until he had nothing left in the tank. Even though he was by far the Angels' best position player, they traded him just a year later. He was certainly an extremely talented player, but there were always questions he wasn't playing up to his potential, not the kind of stuff HOF voters like to hear ... |
#14
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Todd Schultz
Josh, get with the program--sheez. |
#15
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: howard
At a point late in the 1975 season both Jim and Gaylord Perry had career records of 215-174. |
#16
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Max Weder
To get back on the vintage track, Christy and Henry Mathewson had a combined won-loss record of 373-189 |
#17
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: john/z28jd
Bill and Rube Foster are half-brothers |
#18
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Bobby Bonds was a career .268 hitter with only one season batting over .300 [.302 in 1970.] He only had 2 seasons with over a 100 RBI and his career on base percentage of .353 is not very good for a leadoff hitter. Add that to his 1757 strikeouts [as compared to his 1886 hits] and you have a non-Hall of Famer no matter who he's related to. |
#19
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Hit .291 for his career with less than 200 HR. I don't think this is an Oedipal situation here. |
#20
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: howard
Frank, I wouldn't put Bobby Bonds in the HOF but pointing out that he had only two 100 RBI seasons and then pointing out that he was frequently a leadoff hitter is a bit unfair. How many leadoff hitters drive in 100 runs? Also, in the context of the offensive era he played in and in comparison to other leadoff men of the period Bonds' OBA of .353 is pretty good. To name just a few that were considered stars in their time: Davey Lopes, Bert Campaneris, Willie Wilson, Mickey Rivers, Ralph Garr and even HOFer Lou Brock all had lower OBAs than Bonds. |
#21
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: J Levine
And if my grandmother had balls, she would have been a ballplayer... |
#22
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Ray
Rick Ferrell and his brother Wes Ferrell were another great brother combo. |
#23
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Ray, |
#24
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
"Actually, there are people who think that Wes Farrell was a better Hall of Fame candidate than Rick. But since Rick is already in the Hall, Wes will not get serious consideration." |
#25
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Rich Klein
But I could have sworn that Dick Thompson, who is writing a biography of the Ferrell family -- for it's even more than Wes and Rick, told me that Wes should be in the HOF and Rick should not be. |
#26
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Peter, |
#27
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
He was 193-128 with a 4.04 ERA. He just isn't a hall of fame caliber pitcher, period. |
#28
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Actually, the presence of Lloyd Waner is evidence contrary to my theory. Here's a borderline guy that was admitted to the Hall even though his brother (who was more qualified) was already in. |
#29
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Precisely. |
#30
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Rich Klein
You always have to consider players relative to their time. Somewhere in another universe Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell would be in the HOF but because of the timing of their career and what transpired offensively just as soon as they finished, they won't make the Hall; yet I honestly believe that you can make a pretty damned good case for both of them to be in the Hall. |
#31
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: peter chao
Trammell has a better argument than Whitaker, although I believe both will get in eventually. |
#32
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Trammell and Whitaker had incredibly similar careers [both had 2300+ hits]with the same team [Tigers]over the same timespan [roughly 1977-95]. In a way, they kind of cancel each other out. If one gets it, the other deserves to get in as well. |
#33
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: howard
If she had balls...very clever. I'm sure granny had mad game. But I'm not sure what you mean that Bobby Bonds "was not good by any standard". He is rated as very good or better by just about every sabermetric measure that has been thought up and he was considered a star by contemporary observers. He was frequently among the league leaders in the "standard" categories of HRs, SBs, Runs, slugging and even RBIs a couple of times. |
#34
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: Phil Garry
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#35
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: J Levine
Howard, |
#36
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Paul and Lloyd Waner and others...
Posted By: howard
Since I did not say that Bonds should be in the HOF there is no need to apologize. My post was in response to your writing that Bonds was not good by any standard. In your followup post, however, you say that he was great for several years and a star for ten years, so we are now in agreement. |
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