The N332 S.F. Hess project and complete checklist effort

[G1911]

The Project
Earlier this year I shared an image of an N332 that had been asked for years ago, and then sort of hijacked it and spiraled into my project to properly document and checklist the expansive N332 set (which I think actually constitutes N330 type 2 and N338-2 as all one single issue originally, at the very least). That thread and the contributions and discussion is here: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=135967, but I think it more suitable and searchable to stop the hijack and have a dedicated thread. I hope more will surface over the years that can be added to the communal knowledge base.

My request:
There are 8 cards of interest in the Burdick collection. 6 are unknown anywhere else (as far as I can tell), 1 (Golden) we have a really crappy grainy and old black and white scan of, and 1 (Ryan) PSA has graded a copy of but nobody I have spoken too has seen.

Taking someone else's advice, I reached out to the MET and filled out their image request form and they got back to me. Unfortunately, they want to be paid $100 per image and seem to find my selection of non-commercial study use a bit odd. I must admit that my research curiosity does not extend $800 deep ��, though I completely understand their position. Their system looks setup for commercial use/university use with funding, not for dorks like me. I am hoping the cards can be added to the thousands of cards displayed on their website to the public, but our email chain has reached its end and they are not adding them without the $800. Looks like this avenue is a fail, unless someone has a contact and would be willing to make a more back channel request to have them added to the MET website.

These are the Burdick cards:
Clark: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658667

Coburn: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658660

Dufur: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658738

Golden: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658653

Lee: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658666

Ryan: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658661

Taylor: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658646

Vint: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/658657






Checklist
Below is the checklist as it stands today. Cards that are not solidly proven to exist with a picture are in red - this doesn't mean I am claiming it doesn't exist, it's just a card that is not fully proven. I do suspect a couple of these might not actually exist and are honest errors in transcribing names. I have removed the Micken and Hubby as obvious checklsiting errors of misspellings. Mutrie is already catalogued with N338-2 and also removed as he is part of that subset in Burdick's ordering. Dan C has kindly put up with me and included all the images provided by folks from here and elsewhere, as well as the revamped checklist from early 2023: http://www.moviecard.com/gallery/oth...cco//n332.html. I have also tried to better identify the sometimes obscure subjects and categorize them.


1 Barney Aaron - Boxer

2 Joe Acton - Wrestler

3 Tom Allen - Boxer

4 Jack Ashton - Boxer

5 Florry Barnett - Boxer

6 Lawrence Barrett - Actor

7 Maurice Barrymore - Actor

8 Prof. Bauer - Wrestler

9 William Beach - Oarsman

10 Kyrle Bellew - Actor

11 Woole Bendhoff - Boxer

12 Edwin Bibby - Wrestler

13 Dion Boucicault - Actor

14 Bob Breetle - Boxer

15 Jack Burke - Boxer

16A Patsey Candiff (spelled wrong) - Boxer

16B Patsey Cardiff - Boxer

17 Jack Carkeek - Wrestler

18 Jem Carney - Boxer

19 Patsey Carney - ? (Burdick Collection)

20 Jimmy Carroll - Boxer

21 George Cartwright - Athlete

22 Arthur Chambers - Boxer

23 Johnny or Johnney or Jimmy Clark - Boxer (Burdick collection has “Johnney Clark)

24 Mike Cleary - Boxer

25 Joe Coburn - Boxer (Burdick Collection)

26 Buffalo Bill, Hon.Wm.F. Cody - Showman

27 Sam Collyer - Boxer

28 Mike Conley - Boxer

29 Chas E. Courtney - Athlete

30 Thomas Courtney - ? (Only in Warshaw’s book)

31 Wm. Cummings - Athlete

32 Mike Cushing - Boxer

33 Billy Dacy - Boxer

34 Capt. Daly - Wrestler

35 Tommy Danforth - Boxer

36 Sam Day - Athlete

37 Jack Dempsey - Boxer

38 Donald Dinnie- Strong Man

39 Mike Donahue - Wrestler

40 Prof. Donaldson - Boxer

41 Dan Donnelly - Boxer

42 Mike Donovan - Boxer

43 H.W. Dufur - Wrestler (Burdick Collection)

44 Thos. A. Edison - Inventor

45 Billy Edwards - Boxer

46 R. Edwards - ?

47 Joe Ellinhsworth - Boxer

48 Jack Fallon (no name) - Boxer

49 Patsy Fallon - Boxer

50 Bob Farrell - Boxer

51 Jim Fell - Boxer

52 Jack Files (no name) - Boxer

53 Pat Fitzgerald- Athlete

54 Jack Fogarty - Boxer

55 Malcolm W. Ford - Track & Field

56 Geo. Fulljames- Boxer

57 Austin Gibbons- Boxer

58 Harry Gilmore - Boxer

59 Geo Godfrey - Boxer

60 Sparrow Golden - Boxer

61 Joe Goss - Boxer

62 Alf Greenfield - Boxer

63 Gus Guerrero - Pedestrian

64 Albert Hamm - Oarsman

65 Ed. Hanlan - Oarsman (SGC POP Report)

66 Chas. Harriman - Track & Field

67 Dooney Harris - Boxer

68 Frank Hart - Pedestrian

69 Jack Haylin - Boxer

70 John C. Heenan - Boxer

71 Dan Hesty - Athlete

72 Abe Hicken - Boxer (Incorrectly checklisted as Micken in some places)

73 Dick Hollywood- Boxer

74 John Hughes - Wrestler

75 Jack Hyams - Fighter

76A Peter Jackson (one name) - Boxer

76B Peter Jackson (two names) - Boxer

77 Wm. Johnston - Athlete

78 Jimmy Kelly - Boxer

79 Patsey Kerrigan - Boxer

80 Pat Killen - Boxer

81 Tom King - Boxer

82 Nat Langham - Boxer

83 George Lee - Track & Field (Burdick Collection)

84 Tom Lees - Boxer

85 Evan Lewis - Wrestler

86 Geo. Littlewood - Pedestrian

87 Jem Mace - Boxer

88 Billy Madden - Boxer

89 Richard Mansfield - Actor

90 Jack McAuliffe - Fighter

91 Joe McAuliffe - Boxer

92 Dominick McCaffrey - Boxer

93 Prof. McClellan - Boxer

94 Billy McLean - Boxer

95 Joe McPherson - Track & Field

96 Sebastian Miller - Strong Man

97 Charlie Mitchell - Boxer

98 Young Mitchell - Boxer

99 Jack Morrissey- Boxer

100 Pete Mulby - Boxer (sometimes listed as Hulby)

101 Wm. Muldoon - Wrestler

102 Frank Murphy - Boxer

103 Jerry Murphy - Boxer

104 Johnnie/Johnny Murphy - Boxer

105 Jimmy Murray - Boxer

106 Billy Myers - Boxer

107 Lon Myers - Athlete

108 Danny Needham - Boxer

109 Geo. Noremac - Athlete

110 Charlie Norton- Boxer

111 Wm. O'Connor - Oarsman

112 Dan O'Leary - ?

113 Tom Paddock - Boxer

114 Joe Pendergrast - Boxer

115 Fred Plaisted - Oarsman

116 Ted Pritchard - Boxer

117 Johnny Reagan - Boxer

118 Geo. Rooke - Boxer

119 Duncan C. Ross- Swordsman

120 Wallace Ross - Oarsman

121 Charley Rowell- Athlete

122 Paddy Ryan - Boxer (PSA graded card + Burdick Collection)

123 Salvini - Actor

124 Black Sam - Wrestler

125 Tom Sayers - Boxer

126 John L. Scholes - Boxer

127 Wm. Sheriff - Boxer

128 Frank Slavin (no name) - Boxer

129 Jem Smith - Boxer

130 E.H. Sothern - Actor

131 John L. Sullivan - Boxer (Name appears once as "John L."

132 J.L. Sullivan - Boxer (Name appears twice, as "J.L."

133 Yankee Sullivan - Boxer

134 Steve Taylor - Boxer (Burdick Collection)

135 Mervine Thompson - Boxer

136 Bob Tunnuell - Boxer

137 Harry Vaughn - Athlete

138 Robt. Vint - Athlete (Burdick Collection)

139 Jem Ward - Boxer

140 Josh Ward - Fighter

141 Tommy Warren - Boxer

142 Fred Weir - Athlete

143 Ike Weir - Boxer

144 Clarence Whistler - Wrestler

145 Frank White - Boxer

146 Lester Wollack - Actor

147 Joe Wormald - Boxer (Burdick Collection)

148 Fritz Wright - Boxer

[FrankRafale]

[Exhibitman]

Any boxer in the Burdick Collection that is listed in my book with an * would be one I verified in person when I was researching at the Met but had not seen 'in the wild' when I compiled the list. That would be Ryan and Taylor on your redline. There may not have been any offered for sale anywhere nor is there an available image, but they definitely exist. The other cards in my checklist that are in the Met's list also exist. I checked my then-existing checklist against what was there.

[sthoemke]

55 Malcolm W. Ford is an athlete, not an actor.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by sthoemke

55 Malcolm W. Ford is an athlete, not an actor.

Thank you! Correcting it now.

As always when a name I don't know comes up, I just looked Ford up. What a strange life he led and an unfortunate end.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Any boxer in the Burdick Collection that is listed in my book with an * would be one I verified in person when I was researching at the Met but had not seen 'in the wild' when I compiled the list. That would be Ryan and Taylor on your redline. There may not have been any offered for sale anywhere nor is there an available image, but they definitely exist. The other cards in my checklist that are in the Met's list also exist. I checked my then-existing checklist against what was there.

Just to be clear, red means no picture proof, not a doubt the card exists or a claim it doesn't. I don't doubt any of the Burdick Collection holdings to exist, I just can't show them, which is the proof positive. Many cards that do not exist have been checklisted by people reporting seeing one (T220 silver Goodman, N162 Dunlap variation, T206 Hustlers, maybe the N269 35 Lannon, and so on and so forth), so I like to take the step of full proof and denoting those that cannot be shown positively. Also, I just want to see what photo they used and the card looked like out of nothing but curiosity. Figure the odds aren't insignificant somebody might know someone at the MET that would be willing to put it on the list of things to add to the website as they do with thousands of other cards.

This is the best I could find for the card of Mr. Sparrow Golden, the one I was able to most recently cross off my target list but for which a better image would be desirable. While the photos used are pirated and they haven't aged that well with the massive fading problems, it's a shame most of the subjects are so tough because it's a wonderful chronicle of 1860's-1880's boxing photos.

[th38larg]

Don't mean to muddy the waters on this thread, but I picked this up a couple years ago. Not sure if the fighter has been identified or if this "anonymous" is already part of the checklist in some way. Sorry for the poor photo. My phone's camera is broken.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by th38larg

Don't mean to muddy the waters on this thread, but I picked this up a couple years ago. Not sure if the fighter has been identified or if this "anonymous" is already part of the checklist in some way. Sorry for the poor photo. My phone's camera is broken.

This card is the one previously identified as Jack Fallon, who seems to have been left unnamed on his cards. I will update the checklist to note he is a third anonymous subject. Here's another copy of the card attached.

The other two anonymous subjects are Jack Files (identified finally on this board last year by others) and Frank Slavin, who thankfully is a recognizable face and easier to ID.

Perhaps opening a can of worms, but I am not sure this card actually is Jack Fallon. I can't recall how this one was identified. Also attaching a picture of Jack from outside the cards.

[G1911]

And, I think I have debunked a card on my list of suspicious targets.

This auction has the Jim Kill in PSA's pop report. The auction correctly notes the label is an error and this is Jim Fell. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-pr-3865973453

As I cannot find a "Jim Kill" and its only source is the PSA pop report which is an error, the card previously numbered 80 in my list is a false card that cannot reasonably be held to exist and must be removed from the target list. This would knock the list back to 147, with I suspect, some still not known, quite possibly a caption variation or two, and a couple more 'false cards' that needs debunking.

This is a perfect example of why I look for proper, real evidence of a card rather than taking a preceding claim as the proof - honest mistakes are made by all of us (well, PSA more often than most of us ).

[G1911]

And back up to 148 on the suspect list. "John L. Sullivan" vs. "'J.L. Sullivan" with the name in different placements as well.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by G1911

And, I think I have debunked a card on my list of suspicious targets.

This auction has the Jim Kill in PSA's pop report. The auction correctly notes the label is an error and this is Jim Fell. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-pr-3865973453

As I cannot find a "Jim Kill" and its only source is the PSA pop report which is an error, the card previously numbered 80 in my list is a false card that cannot reasonably be held to exist and must be removed from the target list. This would knock the list back to 147, with I suspect, some still not known, quite possibly a caption variation or two, and a couple more 'false cards' that needs debunking.

This is a perfect example of why I look for proper, real evidence of a card rather than taking a preceding claim as the proof - honest mistakes are made by all of us (well, PSA more often than most of us ).

Nice catch. I was gonna say "who the hell is Jim Kill?".

[G1911]

Still looking! And, I found a photograph of Mr. Solomon F. Hess in my archives while compiling all my material on the company and cards beyond the checklist of the N332 set. Born on a farm, ran a simple general store with his father, bought the Disbrow company, transformed the firm and ran it until it was finally killed by the monopoly in 1907 with his own death, transformed his family into one of the prominent New York families, outlasted most of the nineteenth century competitors. Not a bad record for a country boy, even if his boxing cards were pirated images that have faded .

[sthoemke]

I can confirm Bibby, Whistler, and Dufur.

wrestlingcardking (aka Rob England) on the boards may have one or more of the cards. He had scans of his SF Hess cards of wrestlers on his myspace photo gallary at one point - not sure if it still exists.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by sthoemke

I can confirm Bibby, Whistler, and Dufur.

wrestlingcardking (aka Rob England) on the boards may have one or more of the cards. He had scans of his SF Hess cards of wrestlers on his myspace photo gallary at one point - not sure if it still exists.

Thank you - I sent him a note a few months ago asking if he might be willing to share images but didn't heard back. Looks like the MySpace no longer has viewable photos. I'd love to be able to cross them off the list and add to our gallery at the non-sport side

[steve B]

Have you tried the Library of Congress site?

I haven't looked for stuff like this, and their filing system is some archivists scheme I'm not familiar with. But they do have slightly newer cards, and very nice scans.

Sad about the Met. Their T206 scans were excellent, high res except for the big names. Now they just have small lower resolution scans for all of them.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by steve B

Have you tried the Library of Congress site?

I haven't looked for stuff like this, and their filing system is some archivists scheme I'm not familiar with. But they do have slightly newer cards, and very nice scans.

Sad about the Met. Their T206 scans were excellent, high res except for the big names. Now they just have small lower resolution scans for all of them.

Unfortunately, LOC only has 1 card, a very nice Peter Jackson. The Met and Library are extra nice when they do have an item freely viewable, some of our pictures we are using for this are less than great because that's all that can be found thus far.