Most underated multiple times batting champs?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Not really trivia but interesting to think about.

To me three jump to mind.

Mickey Vernon, who between his accomplishments and his service time interrupting his prime is a borderline HOF'er that gets no love.

Pete Runnels - interestingly part of one of the most even trades of all time that benefited nobody. Sox and Angels, Runnels for Roman Mejias, both of whom never produced again. Runnels coming off a batting title and Mejias coming off a very solid 24 HR season.

Bill Madlock - 4 Batting titles, 0 respect.

Who else?

[Jim65]

Willie McGee

[Cliff Bowman]

First guy that popped into my head was Ferris Fain, other than his two batting titles he only hit .300 one other year. ETA, oops, I guess he would fall under most overrated .

[Snapolit1]

Bill Madlock

.... ah, somehow overlooked him on your list . . . .

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Willie McGee

Willie only gets there with an asterisk though. Eddie Murray actually led the majors in hitting the year of McGee's 2nd title but Willie won the batting title in the NL due to a timely trade to the A's. He had enough at bats to be official in the NL where he hit .332 but his batting average with the A's was enough to drop him to .324 for the season. Murray hit .331 for the Dodgers and Brett hit .329, so Eddie Murray led the majors in batting without winning a batting title. Numbers are from memory, so they may not be perfect, but they demonstrate the phenomenon.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

First guy that popped into my head was Ferris Fain, other than his two batting titles he only hit .300 one other year.

Good call, almost a Pete Runnels clone except he took NO walks if I recall correctly.

[Seven]

While not necessarily underrated, I feel Wade Boggs does not get a whole lot of respect nowadays. Maybe it was due to his lack of power, I'm not quite sure but I feel like he's not talked about enough.

A more recent pick would be Nomar. Guy was an absolute terror at the plate.

[Rad_Hazard]

Paul Hines - 2 Batting Titles - 0 Respect

First triple crown winner and first to ever pull off an unassisted triple play (allegedly). Legend.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Seven

While not necessarily underrated, I feel Wade Boggs does not get a whole lot of respect nowadays. Maybe it was due to his lack of power, I'm not quite sure but I feel like he's not talked about enough.

A more recent pick would be Nomar. Guy was an absolute terror at the plate.

It does seem Gwyyn gets a lot more love, even though if I was drafting a team today and I could have either of them for the careers they put up I take Boggs. I've also always wondered why the Red Sox delayed his development so long. Two full seasons at AA and Two more full seasons at AAA even though he produced right away at each level. Accounts for his relatively late start at age 24.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Good call, almost a Pete Runnels clone except he took NO walks if I recall correctly.

Fain had one of the highest walk rates of all time. Runnels’ was above average but probably 50% lower. As such Id say Fain is the most underrated.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It does seem Gwyyn gets a lot more love, even though if I was drafting a team today and I could have either of them for the careers they put up I take Boggs. I've also always wondered why the Red Sox delayed his development so long. Two full seasons at AA and Two more full seasons at AAA even though he produced right away at each level. Accounts for his relatively late start at age 24.

The Red Sox weren't exactly run by geniuses in those days, sadly.

He was blocked by Carney Lansford at 3B, but still...he was clearly ready for the big leagues earlier than he was promoted there, as you suggested.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by howard38

Fain had one of the highest walk rates of all time. Runnels’ was above average but probably 50% lower. As such Id say Fain is the most underrated.

Thinking of Don Mueller. Another guy who ALMOST won two batting titles but came up a little short 2x and NEVER walked.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

The Red Sox weren't exactly run by geniuses in those days, sadly.

He was blocked by Carney Lansford at 3B, but still...he was clearly ready for the big leagues earlier than he was promoted there, as you suggested.

Lansford actually comes super close to making the list missing out on a second title to Puckett by .003

[packs]

Larry Walker. I know he's a HOFer now, but it wasn't ever a foregone conclusion. He won 3 batting titles and while the Colorado discount will always be there, he didn't win 3 batting titles hitting home runs.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It does seem Gwyyn gets a lot more love, even though if I was drafting a team today and I could have either of them for the careers they put up I take Boggs. I've also always wondered why the Red Sox delayed his development so long. Two full seasons at AA and Two more full seasons at AAA even though he produced right away at each level. Accounts for his relatively late start at age 24.

Tony had that Barry Bonds like bump from age 34 to 37 when he had by far his best 4 year totals. Before that Wade was by far the better player but he didn't have that boost in his mid 30s Tony had.

Bill Madlock did win 4 batting titles but was very underwhelming other than that great feat.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

The Red Sox weren't exactly run by geniuses in those days, sadly.

He was blocked by Carney Lansford at 3B, but still...he was clearly ready for the big leagues earlier than he was promoted there, as you suggested.

I'd argue they weren't run by geniuses for a long time. Yawkey refusing to integrate until the bitter end prevented them from winning a couple of titles in the 50's and 60's for sure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree with Boggs. I think his personality had a lot to do with the relative lack of love for him. People were always emphasizing his faults. As I used to say during his prime, he's the worst .350 hitter ever.

Madlock, meh.

[G1911]

Edit: I’m an idiot, my guy didn’t win the 2 I thought he had.

[Touch'EmAll]

Tony Oliva - led league in Batting Avg. 3 times

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

Larry Walker. I know he's a HOFer now, but it wasn't ever a foregone conclusion. He won 3 batting titles and while the Colorado discount will always be there, he didn't win 3 batting titles hitting home runs.

Colorado improves averages too though as they made the outfield huge in order to combat the home runs so there's a lot more square footage for balls to fall in. Not hating on Walker, but even his splits show a marked difference. Here are his three Batting Title seasons plus 1997 where he was close.

YR Home Away
1997 .384 .346
1998 .419 .302
1999 .382 .374
2001 .406 .293

So one batting title year was close, the other two are over .100 apart, and the near miss is a fairly standard home road split.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Tony Oliva - led league in Batting Avg. 3 times

I know it took him forever to get in, but hard to call a HOF'er underrated.

[packs]

Still think Larry’s underrated though. Home runs come mind first but I’d be surprised if the majority of people know he won 3 titles. That’s a marker for being underrated right?

[Seven]

Lefty O'Doul would fit the bill for this conversation. Led the league twice once with a .398 average and the other with a .368 average. Even more impressive was the fact that in 1929 season he had 254 hits!

Pretty incredible that he was a .349 hitter for his career. Shame he didn't start his career as a hitter, as well.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Willie only gets there with an asterisk though. Eddie Murray actually led the majors in hitting the year of McGee's 2nd title but Willie won the batting title in the NL due to a timely trade to the A's. He had enough at bats to be official in the NL where he hit .332 but his batting average with the A's was enough to drop him to .324 for the season. Murray hit .331 for the Dodgers and Brett hit .329, so Eddie Murray led the majors in batting without winning a batting title. Numbers are from memory, so they may not be perfect, but they demonstrate the phenomenon.

Very good one Scott I forgot about Eddie Murray and the trade. Great story that one

[GaryPassamonte]

Ross Barnes- 3 titles

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Ross Barnes- 3 titles

Yes! And finished top three in two other years, if I'm not mistaken.

[Casey2296]

Agree on Ross Barnes and Olivia.
I would posit two of the most underrated HOF hitters are Tony Gwynn and Rod Carew. Gwynn is tied with Wagner for most NL batting titles with 8 and can be included in the goat discussion. Carew had 7 titles, both are relegated to mid-tier or less in collectors minds.

[SteveWhite]

Joe Mauer had 3 batting titles:2006 at .347, 2008 at .328, and 2009 hit
.365. Playing catcher all three years. Side note as a high school
senior was the National Player of the year for football (QB) and baseball.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Seven

While not necessarily underrated, I feel Wade Boggs does not get a whole lot of respect nowadays. Maybe it was due to his lack of power, I'm not quite sure but I feel like he's not talked about enough.

A more recent pick would be Nomar. Guy was an absolute terror at the plate.

Hell yeah, Boggs was under-rated. Check out his 1987 season and then explain to me how he came in 9th in the MVP race.

He's a modern statisticians dream player.

Boggs was also much better defensively, then he ever got credit for. Even in his earlier years when he was getting charged with a lot of errors, his range factor was always excellent.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Hell yeah, Boggs was under-rated. Check out his 1987 season and then explain to me how he came in 9th in the MVP race.

He's a modern statisticians dream player.

Totally! That man was all about taking walks before it was cool

[Carter08]

Pete Rose gets a lot of love for longevity but the man had some serious years, including at least 3 batting titles (I think that’s it).

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It does seem Gwyyn gets a lot more love, even though if I was drafting a team today and I could have either of them for the careers they put up I take Boggs. I've also always wondered why the Red Sox delayed his development so long. Two full seasons at AA and Two more full seasons at AAA even though he produced right away at each level. Accounts for his relatively late start at age 24.

Those AA years he was behind Butch Hobson, who was a fan favorite and when he didn't have elbow problems was a good fielder.

The AAA seasons the sox had Glenn Hoffman in 1980 but Boggs had just got to AAA In 81 Carney Lansford won the batting title.

The Sox at the time weren't all that good at player development, often keeping major league guys around much longer than most teams would today. In a way Boggs may have benefitted from not being the guy replacing Hobson, which would have come with a bit of stress from comparisons. And also sort of lucky to miss being in the strike in 81. When he came in there was no stigma, and he eventually replaced a guy who hit well in a short year but not in full seasons.

I'm not sure, but there may have been gaps in his game he needed to fix before really being ready.