Help with this autograph!

[pow323]

I hope this is ok ask about this autograph in this section I can`t find anywhere else to put it, so forgive me if I am wrong. Does anyone know if it is ok or not? It is on a document of my wifes uncle that died in the service June 1, 1945. Signed by Harry Truman. Please let me know if you can help me? Thanks!

[perezfan]

An attached photo would help a lot... thanks

[pow323]

Sorry about that I forgot the photo! Good for me! Here it is!

[mr2686]

I'm not an expert in Presidential signatures, but I was able to find multiple examples on the internet of authenticated examples of Harry Truman. This sure looks spot on, and considering the type of letter and reason for it being sent, I would think it's real.

[RichardSimon]

Please post the entire item.

[pow323]

Here is the item with the Harry Truman autograph on it! Thanks. Also could someone give me a value on this piece? I would possibly like to sell it!

[Lordstan]

I'm not sure, but weren't many of these types of letters signed with an autopen?

[jbsports33]

I agree this very well could be an auto pen, could you show us a close up picture of the back, with out seeing the item in person it can be difficult. I had a few Ali autos which all looked great, but ended up being auto pen. They appear nice and signatures look good, but they can be hard to detect. Type of paper and text seems to be another sign of auto pen and I would not be surprised.

Jimmy

[pow323]

Here is a picture of the back. Thanks!

[RichardSimon]

This is almost certainly a printed signature and not really signed. I would have to examine it without glass to be 100% sure, but these type of documents were printed with facsimile signatures most of the time.
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[batsballsbases]

This may very well be an auto pen as Truman had to sign many of these kind of letters. Here is one also from that time to compare.

[mr2686]

Wow...this one certainly got me. A couple of things I'm curious about though. First, I always thought that with an autopen, there could not be any breaks in the signature at all...I'm guessing that's not true, and second, are autopen sigs still prevalent as far as Presidents go or did somewhere down the line they use secretarial versions?

[RichardSimon]

Presidents have used autopens and secretarial signatures throughout their terms.

[Oldtix]

Last summer, I read David McCullough's excellent biography Truman...a lengthy but very enjoyable review of his personal and political life.

As I recall, Truman reportedly dedicated many hours daily to personally answering his correspondence. He was of the old school that considered it good manners, and his writings provide an exceptional record of his presidency. He would have certainly taken the signing of condolence letters very seriously (particularly so near the start of his term in office), so I wouldn't dismiss the possibility too quickly. Not saying it's real...I'm no expert...but it's more likely for Truman than for later presidents.

[mr2686]

Rick, I was of the same opinion of Truman as you...very old school especially when it came to personally signing condolence letters. I'm sure he couldn't have signed every one, but I bet he tried. I really hate to think that "nothing says thank you for your sons and daughters giving their lives to this country" better than a form letter and an autopen.

[RichardSimon]

I repeat, I don't think it is an autopen but the entire document is printed. It is a document not a personal condolence letter.
Think about it,,, think how many of these he would have had to have signed.

[mr2686]

Richard, it's not my intention to argue with you, because I respect the heck out of you and your expertise...which is why you are the only person I would send autographs to for authentication. But to your point "Think about it,,, think how many of these he would have had to have signed". Well, this was signed on June 1st, 1945...just 1.5 months after Truman became President. Considering the bomb was then dropped in August, my guess is that the "majority" of the 300,000 - 500,000 American deaths (depending on who's figures you're going by) had already occurred. Now, that still would leave a lot of deaths, but it doesn't seem unmanageable especially when you consider how many autographs get pushed out in a 2 hour period by todays athletes and then you consider the character of that particular President. I know absolutely nothing about Roosevelt's signing habits, but I would bet a good sum that he would never be able to sign most of those types of letters due to the sheer volume that would have had to be signed before his death. My suggestion to the person asking the original question would be to make arrangements for Richard, or someone equally as knowledgeable, to take a look at the document in person.

[RichardSimon]

I am not sure the specific battles that were fought in that time period but I do know that the Japanese were fighting to the death wherever they could and inflicting terrible casualties on American forces.
That was one of the reasons that Truman decided to drop the bomb.
I am still virtually certain that this was a printed document, but I would certainly be glad to look at it.
One hint to the owner - look at the back of the page, out of any frame, and see if there is any evidence of a pen groove where Truman's "signature" would be.
I always enjoy these "detective stories" in the autograph field. A refreshing change from the torrent of plain old forgeries.
I just did some postal detective work on a 1951 Willie Mays rookie signature, which is posted on the Giants thread, and that was fun, especially when I could prove that it was a rookie Mays signature.

[pow323]

Richard, Thanks to you and all the other comments that were made about the Truman autograph. I see no evidence of a pen groove but it looks to me like a ink pen sig. that would not push through the thick paper. I don`t know it is hard to tell but it looks like a real sig. to me! Anyway what would it be worth if it were just an auto pen? Thanks again for your help! Marc (Also if you think that it way be a ture sig. I would be glad to send it to you to take a look at. LMK)

[drc]

For the current wars, the soldier death letters are hand signed by the Secretary of Defense. For a period Donald Rumsfeld had the letters autopenned, but there was a minor uproar when this was discovered and he went back to hand signing them. In short, it is the standard and practice today for them to be hand signed.