Evidence of Trimming? Your thoughts?/

[Vintagedeputy]

I recently had this 1933 DeLong card come back in a sub and I want to question the description on the label. This card says Authentic, Evidence of Trimming. To me, trimming would be the cutting of a side by a person usually to make the card appear to have more even borders, or sharp corners, or to perhaps fit a certain frame of some kind.

This card obviously was not trimmed by hand, but instead has pieces missing, simply from wear and tear and handling, perhaps being stuffed in a boy’s back pocket for example.

On all four sides of the card, it has enough of a white border to meet the size of the black insert. This card was never trimmed by hand, but rather just has small portions missing from handling. Most of the missing portions are rather rough, but even the one at the bottom right, which has a more straight line to it is easily attributed to that portion being folded back, and breaking off more cleanly than the rest of the wear and tear.

Here’s the criteria for a 1:

GRADE
1

QUALITY
POOR

DESCRIPTION
This card usually exhibits many of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, small portions of the card may be missing.

I don’t usually argue about grades received, but I think to say that this was trimmed is incorrect and I believe that it meets the SGC definition of a 1 grade.

[CardPadre]

I think it has too much card missing to be a 1…probably have to call that more than small pieces gone. But I could see it in an Authentic without the trimming designation maybe.

With all the corner areas gone, makes me think it was either pinned up on a board at the corners or was possibly cut like kids do and then suffered further wear.

But it is damaged really unusually, I can’t say with any real certainty what brought it to that condition. But a straight Authentic would probably be as good as you could get. And you might be able to get that elsewhere if SGC won’t change their opinion.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I think it has too much card missing to be a 1…probably have to call that more than small pieces gone. But I could see it in an Authentic without the trimming designation maybe.

With all the corner areas gone, makes me think it was either pinned up on a board at the corners or was possibly cut like kids do and then suffered further wear.

But it is damaged really unusually, I can’t say with any real certainty what brought it to that condition. But a straight Authentic would probably be as good as you could get. And you might be able to get that elsewhere if SGC won’t change their opinion.

Thank you. I do think that a straight Authentic grade is better than the EOT, which makes it seem purposely altered. I don’t believe that to be the case.

I am wondering though what they consider “small portions missing” because I do have other cards with small portions missing that received a 1. I’m wondering if it is some kind of percentage that they go by that we’re not aware of.

[Leon]

Grading is subjective and a crapshoot.
.

[JustinD]

I agree with the Authentic grade due to amount of card missing also. I can't remember seeing a 1 personally with this level of removed material.

I don't think the evidence of trimming was necessary as so many authentic grades exist without as it with obvious trims. Granted the lower half without handling it looks like it was cleaned up with scissors, but still seems petty with so much material gone already.

[Johnny630]

Sadly I think the grader nailed you on the bottom right corner edge...looks awful sharp like straitened by cutting object. Idk that's all I could think of.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Thank you. I do think that a straight Authentic grade is better than the EOT, which makes it seem purposely altered. I don’t believe that to be the case.

I am wondering though what they consider “small portions missing” because I do have other cards with small portions missing that received a 1. I’m wondering if it is some kind of percentage that they go by that we’re not aware of.

The card in question has LARGE chunks missing and the bottom corners look like they could have been cut at one time. I agree with the grade but think just Authentic would also work and be better for the card owner.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The card in question has LARGE chunks missing and the bottom corners look like they could have been cut at one time. I agree with the grade but think just Authentic would also work and be better for the card owner.

I guess my question then is what is considered small versus large? Probably a very subjective determination. Do grading companies base small versus large on a certain percentage of the card missing?

I also don’t believe that bottom right corner was cut. I think it was folded over back-and-forth enough times that it then separated.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I guess my question then is what is considered small versus large? Probably a very subjective determination. Do grading companies base small versus large on a certain percentage of the card missing?

I also don’t believe that bottom right corner was cut. I think it was folded over back-and-forth enough times that it then separated.

I have no idea how the graders do it. For me your Boxing cards are at their limit for small pieces missing. The Delong is missing way too much for me to consider it a small portion. If it was just missing either the top right or bottom left them maybe it would be just a small portion.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

This card obviously was not trimmed by hand, but instead has pieces missing, simply from wear and tear and handling, perhaps being stuffed in a boy’s back pocket for example.

On all four sides of the card, it has enough of a white border to meet the size of the black insert. This card was never trimmed by hand, but rather just has small portions missing from handling. Most of the missing portions are rather rough, but even the one at the bottom right, which has a more straight line to it is easily attributed to that portion being folded back, and breaking off more cleanly than the rest of the wear and tear.

This seems quite a stretch - it appears much more likely the bottom right corner, at absolute minimum, was cut off at one point. The wear pattern is strongly indicative of this.

The card appears accurately described, although not trimmed with intent to deceive.

[NiceDocter]

Who would have thought when the grading services first came out that we’d be keeping our hopes and dreams up just for a 1????

[CardPadre]

I think the “blank back” Authentic is probably meant for cards that should have something on back but don’t. Although that’s not how it is worded at all.

[jetsetr1]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I recently had this 1933 DeLong card come back in a sub and I want to question the description on the label. This card says Authentic, Evidence of Trimming. To me, trimming would be the cutting of a side by a person usually to make the card appear to have more even borders, or sharp corners, or to perhaps fit a certain frame of some kind.

This card obviously was not trimmed by hand, but instead has pieces missing, simply from wear and tear and handling, perhaps being stuffed in a boy’s back pocket for example.

On all four sides of the card, it has enough of a white border to meet the size of the black insert. This card was never trimmed by hand, but rather just has small portions missing from handling. Most of the missing portions are rather rough, but even the one at the bottom right, which has a more straight line to it is easily attributed to that portion being folded back, and breaking off more cleanly than the rest of the wear and tear.

Here’s the criteria for a 1:

GRADE
1

QUALITY
POOR

DESCRIPTION
This card usually exhibits many of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, small portions of the card may be missing.

I don’t usually argue about grades received, but I think to say that this was trimmed is incorrect and I believe that it meets the SGC definition of a 1 grade.

I get what you’re saying, based off most examples we’d see trimmed isn’t a positive qualifier. Then again any qualifier isn’t good. Trimmed generally has the assumption that it’s doctored on purpose. This example is definitely trimmed with a straight edge, for whatever reason (likely heavy damage) but surely isn’t to trick anyone.

Don’t want to sound like daddy warbucks, but why grade it ? You can get a PR 1 for near $100

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30548918839...mis&media=COPY

Or a 5 for around $850

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30548918839...mis&media=COPY