Figuring T206 pricing upcharge based on backs?

[chalupacollects]

Here is a question I haven't seen asked...

Ran across a gentleman today that had a small stack of T206's for sale... None graded... Claimed to be a "big collector" with 3 storage units of cards...

Anyway the ten or dozen cards he had with him were all Polar Bear backs with a couple of Sweet Caps and Piedmonts mixed..

The Polar Bears included included a Cobb on shoulder, Christy Mathewson, Chick Gandil, Clark Griffith and a few other stars.

I didn't examine out of the top loaders but they looked ok but being some big names and not graded, I was very leery for someone claiming "big collector" status..

So obviously he had some big numbers on some of them, $4500 for Cobb etc.

The question is if say using a Beckett Vintage guide as a starting point - I know not the greatest guide but it is at least a starting point for a price...

What percentage would you add to it or rule of thumb to use for pricing the rarer backs such as Polar Bear, Drum, Uzit etc.

So if a Gandil lists at $175/300 for a common back, where would you be on a Polar Bear?

Thanks!

[Casey2296]

Every time I hear "Big Collector with storage units" I imagine case upon case of early 90's Score baseball cards just waiting for the market to come back...

[DeanH3]

Cobb bat on doesn't exist with a Polar Bear back. Impossible combination.

Without scans, it's really hard to help with a value.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Cobb bat on doesn't exist with a Polar Bear back. Impossible combination.

+1

I know you didn’t ask whether the “big collector’s” cards are real, but they are not, if he is peddling a cobb bat on polar bear. You are wise to be leery

To answer your specific question - fake cards with rare backs do not get a premium over fake cards with common backs

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

+1

I know you didn’t ask whether the “big collector’s” cards are real, but they are not, if he is peddling a cobb bat on polar bear. You are wise to be leery

To answer your specific question - fake cards with rare backs do not get a premium over fake cards with common backs

Ok how about if we ran across some raw real Polar Bears, then what would the premium be???

Thanks

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

[/B]

Ok how about if we ran across some raw real Polar Bears, then what would the premium be???

Thanks

As a general guide I'd say a multiplier between 1.0 and 1.3. Maybe up around 1.5 for high grade examples with minimal scrap stains or ones that seem hard to find and you gotta have em. However, I'd say the 1.0 to 1.3 is a good start, meaning a $50 card would fall in the $50-$65 range, as an example. It's usually just a slight premium for Polar Bear backs.

[icurnmedic]

Based on what I see PB gets about 15%-30% more based on condition. The big question is how to determine the base price, and how to price the EPDG, AB, Cycle, etc..

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

[/B]

Ok how about if we ran across some raw real Polar Bears, then what would the premium be???

Thanks

I feel like a polar bear back is maybe worth 20%-40% more than a common back, depending on the player (and excluding Demmitt and O’Hara).

Here is a link to a back-multiplier table. There are several of these out on the web.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/price_list2.html

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I feel like a polar bear back is maybe worth 20%-40% more than a common back, depending on the player (and excluding Demmitt and O’Hara).

Here is a link to a back-multiplier table. There are several of these out on the web.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/price_list2.html

Thank you, this table is really helpful, although seems like it can be off from where these cards trade. For example, if I look at Art Fromme, it lists the base price at $25, and "EX" condition would have a 2.5x multiplier - which equates to $60-65...

However, on VCP, in 2018/19, multiple PSA 5 Fromm's (Pied/Sweet Cap) sold for over $200, and this is pre-market boom. PSA 4s have gone for $100 recently.

Any thoughts on this?

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

Thank you, this table is really helpful, although seems like it can be off from where these cards trade. For example, if I look at Art Fromme, it lists the base price at $25, and "EX" condition would have a 2.5x multiplier - which equates to $60-65...

However, on VCP, in 2018/19, multiple PSA 5 Fromm's (Pied/Sweet Cap) sold for over $200, and this is pre-market boom. PSA 4s have gone for $100 recently.

Any thoughts on this?

I would use the back multiplier pricing from this website, but not necessarily the single card base pricing. T206 cards across the board definitely have seen some substantial increases in the past couple of years, and although the base card pricing may be out of date on many (most) of the cards listed, the back multiplier chart should still apply. Just use recent prices as your guide, and then apply the back multiplier.

[nineunder71]

Wid,

The T206 set is far too complicated to use any kind of ‘back multiplier’ to derive accurate valuations.

Instead, just continue to research each individual card, like you did with Fromme

That is by far your best bet.

Eventually, (I’m 12 years into the set) You will just know the values of most. But, with over 5500 combinations out there, when you come across something you have not seen, revert back to the research (Past sales are best)

Best Of Luck, these things are more addictive than crack!

Colton

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

Wid,

The T206 set is far too complicated to use any kind of ‘back multiplier’ to derive accurate valuations.

Instead, just continue to research each individual card, like you did with Fromme

That is by far your best bet.

Eventually, (I’m 12 years into the set) You will just know the values of most. But, with over 5500 combinations out there, when you come across something you have not seen, revert back to the research (Past sales are best)

Best Of Luck, these things are more addictive than crack!

Colton

Thank you for the response. This is pretty much what I have doing, and its served well thus far.

[Rhotchkiss]

Agreed. Best you can do is make some general assumptions, but that’s only a start. Some combos are super difficult, and thus more expensive; especially when multiple people are chasing the same back set. The popularity of certain backs wax and wane; for example, I feel like polar bears are hot and EPDG a bit cool right now, but EPDG used to be the bees’ knees. Then, for backs like Sovereign and cycle, you have different series (of course you have that too with Piedmont and Sweet Cap plus factory numbers).

T206 is such a beast it’s called the monster. It’s much too difficult to make firm rules about the value of any back, other than maybe putting them in groupings and these are the two top groups/classes, and In a place above the rest

Most valuable
Brown Old Mill
Brown Lenox
Broadleaf 460
Drum
Uzit

Second tier
Black Lenox
Red Hindu
Broadleaf 350
Carolina Brights

I would also include blank backs, t213-1 and t215-1, but the latter two may be fighting words to some the board.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I feel like a polar bear back is maybe worth 20%-40% more than a common back, depending on the player (and excluding Demmitt and O’Hara).

Here is a link to a back-multiplier table. There are several of these out on the web.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/price_list2.html

Thanks! What I needed!

[Cmount76]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

+1

To answer your specific question - fake cards with rare backs do not get a premium over fake cards with common backs

Wait - no premium for the ultra rare RED Piedmont reverse!?!?!? Shit - I was bamboozled!!!!

[Ronnie73]

You could use a back multiplier scale to determine a ballpark price but the market continues to change and move upward. Plus you have some big collectors getting out of the T206 set while new ones are coming in. It's best to follow what each front/back combo is currently selling for that you are trying to value. Look at successful completed auctions and sales for prices. There's no true scale to value a card combo. If there was, certain less known rarities would no longer be a secret. Learning as much as you can about print groups and the groups within those groups can be very helpful. Even though the backs are the same, depending on what print group a card is part of, can put it in a different level of rarity. So, best thing is, first be sure they are real cards. No point in doing a bunch of research for something that's fake. Check recent sold prices in multiple places such as eBay, PSA, and HA. Look at population numbers. Now I know these numbers are a mess but they can still be helpful when comparing one combo to another if there are no recent sales of a certain card but it has similar pop numbers as another card that recently sold, you could get an idea on price. The last thing you could do is just ask. But be sure to do as much basic research on your own first.