Old Judge - silly question?

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Posted By: Matt Goebel

I finally received my Mastro winnings last week - a great N172 King Kelly - to add to my small collection from this set. Please excuse me if this is an ignorant observation, but I noticed below the photo that it says "Copy from photo by C.H. Gallup Poughkeepsie, N.Y.". I had assumed that all my others had the phrase "Copyright by Goodwin & Co. 1887(or 1888 or 1889)", but when I went back to look I found that my other Kelly card (portrait Chicago white hat) has the same photo credit as the new one. Is this credit specific only to Kelly? Are there other photographers credited in the set? Does anybody care?



Thanks,

Matt

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Matt:

Very interesting. I don't recall ever seeing that before.

My $10,000 Kelly has the standard "Copyrighted by Goodwin and Co." tag line at the bottom.

Perhaps Jay Miller could tell us if the tag line you have is pose specific.

Kevin

[edited to add picture and correct statement]

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Posted By: Jay

Great post--I never noticed that before. The only other photographer that I remember getting credited at the bottom of a card is Jos Wood. That's what is great about the set---it is 120 years old and you can still find new things in it.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

That is a new one to me as well.

The earliest of Old Judges, the 1886/7 Script cards appear to have more variations than the other series, this despite being fairly small in number and sometimes tougher to come by (usually more scarce). It looks like the Kelly card you posted is the Chicago - batting left handed Script card. I suspect all his Script cards (3 total, all with Chicago) can be found with this same copyright. This addition gives the following copyright possibilities on Script cards:

1) COPY FROM PHOTO BY C.H. GALLUP POUGHKEEPSIE, N.Y.
2) COPY FROM PHOTO BY J. WOOD, 208 BOWERY, N.Y.
3) COPYRIGHTED BY GOODWIN & CO. 1887.
4) blank / no copyright present

I personally believe cards with #1 or #2 predate the Script cards with #3 or #4 on them.

Note, the short & long (leading 0) numbered Old Judges from 1887 all have copyright #3 or #4 except the 2nd type of long number which has just "COPYRIGHTED, 1887." under the photo.

Very Cool !

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: barrysloate

To find something at this point that none of the Old Judge experts has seen is remarkable.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Matt G.:

Can you please post a scan of the whole card?

Thanks!

(very cool to see something old be something new!)

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Posted By: Joseph

The Library of Congress has the same card, same copyright attribution:



I looked randomly through the cards (accessible via Vintage Links above) and found no other with a non-Goodwin credit so they must be quite rare.

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Posted By: Matt Goebel

I didn't scan the whole card, but here is a link to the Mastro Listing:

http://www.mastroauctions.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=69861

It seems like this photo credit is only given on cards where Kelly is pictured in a Chicago uniform. In addition to my Kelly portrait white cap, I found this scan (althought the card is not mine:



and here is a link to Mark's Kelly potrait no cap:

http://imageevent.com/hofcards/baseballhofers/baseballhofersjl?p=57&n=1&m=-1&c=6&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=2

Matt

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Posted By: Cat

Matt:

My Kelly Portrait, in a Chicago uniform, also has the same credit. Although his picture on the card is very vivid, the credit is nearly undetectable. I am sure it is there though since I can make out a few letters. Later, I will include a scan.

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Posted By: Cat

I am sure it is there...