PPP Loans taken by Prominent Hobby Figures

[perezfan]

Anybody here seen this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z96fE-JiqnE

It's pretty infuriating when you consider the "pandemic" represented the biggest boom for sports cards in recent history. Sorta goes against the whole spirit of the PPP Loans, IMHO.

Too bad that hard working taxpayers had to foot the bill for these shysters. Please forgive me if this topic/video has already been shared here.


* Edited to say there's an awesome PWCC rant starting around the 4:14 mark

[rjackson44]

thx

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1540794

PWCC 413K according to this.

[BCauley]

Is there a synopsis of this somewhere I can read? Couldn’t get past a minute of listening to this guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Is there a synopsis of this somewhere I can read? Couldn’t get past a minute of listening to this guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're obnoxious, clickbaity, and drama focused, but they often give good documentary evidence for what they are alleging and much of it will be posted on their website. A lot of this stuff floats around the Discords weeks before it makes it to YouTube. They've been right about a lot of things everyone claimed was wrong, but had to fold in the face of the evidence. The Goldin material is a lot better than this. I'm not sure ANY business didn't abuse the hell out of these loans, and with the way it was setup, frankly it would have been foolish not to take the cash.

[mrreality68]

Wow

That guy was a little opinionated

Interesting topic, do not like the way it was presented by the host.

Some facts but a lot could be taken out of context.

Would also like to see a written version to be able to research some of the items mentioned

[ullmandds]

From where I see it...lots of businesses took PPP money...some of which didn't need it. Some enriched their bank accounts with this $$$$...some spent the money on sports cars and luxury items. I have numerous friends who benefited greatly because of the free $$$$$.

It's part of the reason the economy got so f'ed!

It shouldn't have been given out so freely...imho.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

It shouldn't have been given out so freely...imho.

At first, I thought it was a good idea when the concept was put out there. If the state is going to shut down commerce, they can at least not shove everyone into poverty when they do it. Then I saw the text of how it was actually going to work. The biggest gift in world history?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

From where I see it...lots of businesses took PPP money...some of which didn't need it. Some enriched their bank accounts with this $$$$...some spent the money on sports cars and luxury items. I have numerous friends who benefited greatly because of the free $$$$$.

It's part of the reason the economy got so f'ed!

It shouldn't have been given out so freely...imho.

That's not opinion, that is fact, plain and simple. Every unbiased economist in the world says the same thing, too much money (free handouts with billions and billions in fraud) chasing too few goods.
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

From where I see it...lots of businesses took PPP money...some of which didn't need it. Some enriched their bank accounts with this $$$$...some spent the money on sports cars and luxury items. I have numerous friends who benefited greatly because of the free $$$$$.

It's part of the reason the economy got so f'ed!

It shouldn't have been given out so freely...imho.

That's not opinion, that is fact, plain and simple. Every unbiased economist in the world says the same thing, too much money (free handouts with billions and billions in fraud) chasing too few goods.
.

[Tabe]

Sports Card Radio are definitely not for everyone. Their style is one that normally drives me nuts. Yet somehow it works for me. Having said that, their actual news and "drama" is usually right on point. They are willing to call out bad behavior that others ignore. And that's needed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

From where I see it...lots of businesses took PPP money...some of which didn't need it. Some enriched their bank accounts with this $$$$...some spent the money on sports cars and luxury items. I have numerous friends who benefited greatly because of the free $$$$$.

It's part of the reason the economy got so f'ed!

It shouldn't have been given out so freely...imho.

And you wonder why some people think the system is rigged.

[eliotdeutsch]

https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

From where I see it...lots of businesses took PPP money...some of which didn't need it. Some enriched their bank accounts with this $$$$...some spent the money on sports cars and luxury items. I have numerous friends who benefited greatly because of the free $$$$$.

It's part of the reason the economy got so f'ed!

It shouldn't have been given out so freely...imho.

How many of the owners of the same businesses were complaining that WAY too much was given to their unemployed employees??!!

[Fred]

Holy crap, that guy on SCRadio doesn't hold back. I have to believe it's true because I couldn't imagine it was false because that would seem to open the guy up for a HUGE law suit.

What was done is just absolutely disgusting. How the hell do people get away with that? Will there be any accountability for any of it?

I'm now done with anything to do with PWCC and Goldin. Not that I did much bidding with them anyway. I guess I was lucky because all the purchases I've made from those businesses were for 19th century cards which most people that visited Goldin probably ignored (which gave me a few nice cards, at very reasonable prices).

[chjh]

This guy in the video is a moron trying to get angry old men angrier.

Times were very uncertain when covid hit. Do you remember all the confusing info?

There is a reason why card prices dipped in the 6 months following covid. And why most you the angry people here weren't the buyers of those cards- it is because they were scared of the impact of covid. PWCC was an employer of, probably, 100+ people. love them or hate them, they created jobs and provided a service to people who were buyers of cards during that scary time.

That's more than most here have done. It is easy to criticize others. It's harder to actually do something.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I will confess to taking $1600 in government cheese. Almost covered payroll for two weeks for an employee who missed time that I didn't want to not pay.

[Rich Klein]

The SC Radio guys just did an interview for Mike Sommer's Wax Pack Hero Podcast.

If you are going to talk about them, this is actually a must listen

https://waxpackhero.com/podcast

Rich

[Johnny630]

Is anyone really surprised??

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Is anyone really surprised??

The government was giving out free money to businesses who met a very short list of easily achievable conditions, and business owners applied for and received the free money?

I am shocked! Grieved! Appalled! Dismayed! Gobsmacked!

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by raulus

The government was giving out free money to businesses who met a very short list of easily achievable conditions, and business owners applied for and received the free money?

I am shocked! Grieved! Appalled! Dismayed! Gobsmacked!

You have more faith than I in the Government's intelligence when it comes to allocating taxpayers money lol

[darkhorse9]

There was a member here (no names will be given) on an earlier post who gleefully boasted how he used his PPP money to buy a 1952 Mantle card.

When I questioned it he got real defensive real quickly.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

There was a member here (no names will be given) on an earlier post who gleefully boasted how he used his PPP money to buy a 1952 Mantle card.

When I questioned it he got real defensive real quickly.

This is the problem. I don’t think anybody, including these obnoxious streamers,
is attacking people who took PPP for legitimate use under the program (it would be foolish not to take the free money); they’re attacking people who appear to have lied or misused funds, or were committing fraud while taking the free money.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is the problem. I don’t think anybody, including these obnoxious streamers,
is attacking people who took PPP for legitimate use under the program (it would be foolish not to take the free money); they’re attacking people who appear to have lied or misused funds, or were committing fraud while taking the free money.

correct

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by raulus

The government was giving out free money to businesses who met a very short list of easily achievable conditions, and business owners applied for and received the free money?

This is EXACTLY what happened. Plain and simple. Many who took the money did not need it, but they DID qualify - just like many who got the $1600 stimulus checks took that money even though they did not need it (I get one was stimulus and the other PPP, but both "need" based). I think this is a case of "dont hate the player, hate the game". The government screwed the pooch on this one. However, I realize that is easy to say in hindsight. Remember, at the time, we had no idea what was going on -- there was a medical cruise ship in the Hudson, the Javitz center was converted to a hospital, people were washing their groceries while wearing gloves and masks, and the world shut down. It was a crazy time and many mistakes were made. Learn and move on.

As an aside, my company had over 200 employees at the time (we have grown since), and we did not take a dollar of PPP money, despite efforts by banks and lawyers wanting to help us apply. It just did not seem right (or patriotic) because we did not need it. However, it was well within our "right" per the PPP rules. Just sayin....

[mintacular]

Originally Posted by chjh

This guy in the video is a moron trying to get angry old men angrier.

Times were very uncertain when covid hit. Do you remember all the confusing info?

There is a reason why card prices dipped in the 6 months following covid. And why most you the angry people here weren't the buyers of those cards- it is because they were scared of the impact of covid. PWCC was an employer of, probably, 100+ people. love them or hate them, they created jobs and provided a service to people who were buyers of cards during that scary time.

That's more than most here have done. It is easy to criticize others. It's harder to actually do something.

I don't think SCR's demographic is "angry old men", quite the contrary. Their content is more for the clickbait/social media-loving crowd.

Also, card prices DID NOT dip after COVID shutdown in the US. The was a very small window in late March where there was small tick-down but from April 2020 thru 2021 market prices on just about all cards were BOOMING the likes of which we have never seen before.

Interesting side-note: The PPP loans were supposed to repaid (hence being loans) yet it appears all of them were just forgiven? Doesn't seem right to me, clearly many who did not need it took advantage of this free cash

[raulus]

Originally Posted by mintacular

Interesting side-note: The PPP loans were supposed to repaid (hence being loans) yet it appears all of them were just forgiven? Doesn't seem right to me, clearly many who did not need it took advantage of this free cash

They were always planned, and even advertised to be forgiven, at least for borrowers that met the criteria for forgiveness. When Congress passed the law authorizing them, the law specifically provided for forgiveness if the conditions were met.

They were merely documented as loans to give the government the ability to get the cash back if the borrower did not meet the criteria.

[parkplace33]

It’s a government program, businesses could use. I don’t see the big deal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'd love to hear the justification for spending a PPP loan on a 52 Mantle. I am not remembering a prior discussion.

[Yoda]

'Money for nuthin and the chicks for free'.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

'Money for nuthin and the chicks for free'.

Well, we were in dire straits.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'd love to hear the justification for spending a PPP loan on a 52 Mantle. I am not remembering a prior discussion.

Technically, no one receiving and having a PPP loan forgiven spent the loan money on anything other than their payroll and certain other qualified expenses, incurred during a very specific time period. Paying out such payroll/qualified expense amounts in excess of the PPP loans received was what qualified them to be forgiven. The plan/idea behind the PPP loans was as sort of a pre-emptive way to make sure businesses (and the overall economy) potentially being affected by Covid would be able to continue on, and keep employing and paying their workers who were coming down with Covid and/or facing the restrictions, shutdowns, closings, and other problems everyone was facing during the initial onslaught of the pandemic. At the time, no one really knew how devastating and prolonged the pandemic crisis would be, and the loan program and forgiveness aspect was sort of an insurance policy to help keep businesses from failing, and workers from potentially losing jobs and paychecks. Had the program not been in effect, it is likely that many businesses would have ceased operations and/or terminated employees, placing a much greater cost and burden on the nation's and states' unemployment programs and systems. Also, potential employment terminations would have likely led to losses of hospitalization and health insurance for many workers, greatly increasing issues and risks to them and their families' health and welfare. It likely would also have vastly increased the number of people then seeking coverage and assistance under the government subsidized health programs available, and greatly increased the workload and expense borne by that system as well.

At least our government did something to try and help keep businesses open, workers employed and still getting paid, and the U.S. economy from possibly being upended. There clearly are many people and businesses who lucked out when they weren't affected as badly by Covid as many in our government initially feared. There are also clearly people and businesses who did NOT follow the rules or meet the specific conditions necessary to obtain these PPP loans, and forgiveness of them. And those in this latter group should be investigated and prosecuted where deserving.

But to question, put down, chastise, and/or denigrate those people whose businesses ended up not being as badly affected by the pandemic as may have initially been thought, and/or who maybe earned that extra profit by working harder and being more flexible and resilient in how they were able to keep their businesses going and their workers employed during the pandemic, is simply ludicrous and ignorant. Just like questioning what someone decides to spend money they honestly and legally earned on. That is their business, not really anyone else's. Would people make the same comments/questions about say someone talking/bragging about how they went and bought a T206 red Cobb with the money they got from their EV (electric vehicle) credit on their tax return, or would they normally just simply congratulate them on their good fortune and their pickup? Because in the end, it is basically just the same thing as the PPP loans, a government program/policy set up to benefit people/businesses so as to influence them to act in a certain way.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'd love to hear the justification for spending a PPP loan on a 52 Mantle. I am not remembering a prior discussion.

I remember that one.

[Snowman]

I can't stand Sports Card Radio. Every video they put out is either an outright lie or intentional misrepresentation of the facts. I can't imagine this one is any different. And everything they create is negative content. All they do is sh*t on others and sh*t on the hobby. Don't feed the trolls.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I will confess to taking $1600 in government cheese. Almost covered payroll for two weeks for an employee who missed time that I didn't want to not pay.

I got all the crackers we need to have a net54 wine and cheese party now

[scmavl]

As someone who personally secured hundreds of PPP loans for their clients, there is something to remember… when the program first came out, NO ONE truly understood it fully or knew what to expect. The second round is a different story, but the first time it was absolute madness. I was getting 1000+ emails a day from scared business owners who thought this would be the only chance to save their businesses. Did many get it who didn’t truly need it? Certainly. But I saw it save so many small businesses that I have no hate for it, even though many chose to abuse it.

[Schlesinj]

I work with a ton of banks and I knew several banks that were working 24/7 with random employees processing loans. No review process, just processing paperwork. It was a crazy time and certainly no surprise in any of the impact.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I can't stand Sports Card Radio. Every video they put out is either an outright lie or intentional misrepresentation of the facts. I can't imagine this one is any different. And everything they create is negative content. All they do is sh*t on others and sh*t on the hobby. Don't feed the trolls.

I'm not a lawyer but I have to wonder if the content of those videos wouldn't open up SCR to law suits that would result in shutting down SCR and then some.

Is there another spin on this that people should know? If someone knows of a rebuttal video, post the link. I don't usually watch this garbage, because I don't have time, but I'd take a few minutes to see a rebuttal.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm not a lawyer but I have to wonder if the content of those videos wouldn't open up SCR to law suits that would result in shutting down SCR and then some.

Is there another spin on this that people should know? If someone knows of a rebuttal video, post the link. I don't usually watch this garbage, because I don't have time, but I'd take a few minutes to see a rebuttal.

Here’s Geoff Wilson’s rebuttal:

https://youtu.be/w9imjd-Syec

And here’s a counter rebuttal ( by a lawyer and marketing person) to Wilson’s rebuttal:

https://youtu.be/Jw6qE0ezikI

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by EddieP

Here’s Geoff Wilson’s rebuttal:

https://youtu.be/w9imjd-Syec

And here’s a counter rebuttal ( by a lawyer and marketing person) to Wilson’s rebuttal:

https://youtu.be/Jw6qE0ezikI

$1000 ppp loan? Why bother? I don't really trust either of these guys?

[notfast]

The fact people like Geoff Wilson are considered “Prominent hobby figures” annoys me almost as much as PPP loans being misused.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by notfast

The fact people like Geoff Wilson are considered “Prominent hobby figures” annoys me almost as much as PPP loans being misused.

the last few years "created" a new hobby within the hobby...the hobby of investing in the hobby...using real time data, creating "indexes" of cards just like financial investment vehicles. This is what the newer "investor" has clamored for...and Wilson has given it to them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by notfast

The fact people like Geoff Wilson are considered “Prominent hobby figures” annoys me almost as much as PPP loans being misused.

I have no idea who most of these people dominating the modern hobby news are. I feel like Mr. Jones in the Dylan song.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm not a lawyer but I have to wonder if the content of those videos wouldn't open up SCR to law suits that would result in shutting down SCR and then some.

Is there another spin on this that people should know? If someone knows of a rebuttal video, post the link. I don't usually watch this garbage, because I don't have time, but I'd take a few minutes to see a rebuttal.

They wouldn't be shut down, but they could be sued for damages.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

the last few years "created" a new hobby within the hobby...the hobby of investing in the hobby...using real time data, creating "indexes" of cards just like financial investment vehicles. This is what the newer "investor" has clamored for...and Wilson has given it to them.

The index is nothing new. Joe Orlando had an index based on the top 100 cards many years ago, the SMR 100 or something like that. I think Brent has had them for some time too.

[parkplace33]

I feel like most collectors are numb to this sort of "news".

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm not a lawyer but I have to wonder if the content of those videos wouldn't open up SCR to law suits that would result in shutting down SCR and then some.

Is there another spin on this that people should know? If someone knows of a rebuttal video, post the link. I don't usually watch this garbage, because I don't have time, but I'd take a few minutes to see a rebuttal.

hi fred hope so man guys a bully

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no idea who most of these people dominating the modern hobby news are. I feel like Mr. Jones in the Dylan song.

peter lol great line man

[Yoda]

Mr. Jones will never know what's going on, and at the moment neither do I.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I can't stand Sports Card Radio. Every video they put out is either an outright lie or intentional misrepresentation of the facts. I can't imagine this one is any different. And everything they create is negative content. All they do is sh*t on others and sh*t on the hobby. Don't feed the trolls.

Like calling out PWCC’s fraud, right?