What the Hell SGC I am out

[JamesGallo]

I don't have much time to post here lately, but I feel this is important to post for various reasons.

I sent a 3 card submission to SGC last week, which arrived on the 14th

1917 Zeenut Bill Burns
T225 Abe Attell Blank Back possibly printer scrap
T203 Winner Cut A Fowl Bawl

I don't use SGC a ton anymore mostly because they don't have a registry and I am just not buying a ton of raw cards anymore. A day after they received the cards I got a refund for two of the cards. I sent an email asking what the refund was for and Brent told me it was for the T225 and T203.

I had sent in the T225 years ago but figured I would give it a go again. I have the full T203 Mayo set and have been working on the Winner set for years, they are ALL in SGC holders (30 or so cards) so I wanted to keep the new addition in the same holder. I had graded other T-203 in June of 2021.

After being told what the refund was for I asked why T-206 blank backs are graded which are likely scrap as well but more importantly why the hell a basic tobacco card is no longer being graded by SGC. Amazing I got NO response and my cards shipped today.

The fact that they wont grade a basic tobacco card just blows my mind. Blowing off my questions just seems to be pair for the course with grading companies these days anyway. For every one good thing they have 2-3 times as many issues and this is the last call for me.

So I guess if you intend to send SGC basic cards you better ask if they still grade them because who knows what the hell they will refuse these days.

James Gallo

[Leon]

So they didn't really give a reason? Surely they, and all TPGs, should grade them?
Here are some raw Winner's below... I never thought about sending them in.

Originally Posted by JamesGallo

I don't have much time to post here lately, but I feel this is important to post for various reasons.

I sent a 3 card submission to SGC last week, which arrived on the 14th

1917 Zeenut Bill Burns
T225 Abe Attell Blank Back possibly printer scrap
T203 Winner Cut A Fowl Bawl

I don't use SGC a ton anymore mostly because they don't have a registry and I am just not buying a ton of raw cards anymore. A day after they received the cards I got a refund for two of the cards. I sent an email asking what the refund was for and Brent told me it was for the T225 and T203.

I had sent in the T225 years ago but figured I would give it a go again. I have the full T203 Mayo set and have been working on the Winner set for years, they are ALL in SGC holders (30 or so cards) so I wanted to keep the new addition in the same holder. I had graded other T-203 in June of 2021.

After being told what the refund was for I asked why T-206 blank backs are graded which are likely scrap as well but more importantly why the hell a basic tobacco card is no longer being graded by SGC. Amazing I got NO response and my cards shipped today.

The fact that they wont grade a basic tobacco card just blows my mind. Blowing off my questions just seems to be pair for the course with grading companies these days anyway. For every one good thing they have 2-3 times as many issues and this is the last call for me.

So I guess if you intend to send SGC basic cards you better ask if they still grade them because who knows what the hell they will refuse these days.

James Gallo

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Leon

So they didn't really give a reason? Surely they, and all TPGs, should grade them?
Here are some raw Winner's below... I never thought about sending them in.

Never seen these before. Pretty amazing/hilarious.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Never seen these before. Pretty amazing/hilarious.

After I sent a email saying thanks for the lack of response I quickly got a "we are looking into it" response but they already sent the cards back. The inconsistencies are out of control, they are more worried about turn around and building up the modern card market instead of the people who helped build up the company years ago and still give a damn.

Leon I don't have 4 of those if you want to sell them LMK. Thanks

James G

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Never seen these before. Pretty amazing/hilarious.

Here is my favorite from the set, and the only T203 I own.

Brian

[G1911]

Is the T225 one of the poster cuts? 99% of the blank backs are those.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by G1911

Is the T225 one of the poster cuts? 99% of the blank backs are those.

No its the Prize Fighter Boxing series. Various backs but I have never seen a blank back

[Lucas00]

I hear Sgc is no longer Grading Blank Backs of any cards that have a standard back available.

Breakout cards on YouTube had this same issue with a I believe it was a ‘62 topps blank back.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I hear Sgc is no longer Grading Blank Backs of any cards that have a standard back available.

Breakout cards on YouTube had this same issue with a I believe it was a ‘62 topps blank back.

And that would be fine even though I find it to be silly. How can you go from grading a card type for 20+ years and then stop. Also would have been a simple response to the one card, still clueless on the T203 though

My only response to that is you don't have the knowledgeable staff anymore which goes back to them caring more about new crap then vintage but who knows really.

James G

[Republicaninmass]

They have become a band of idiots.

They told me the only back variations of 1952 topps are red and black, there are no gray backs, even after being a choice in their drop down menu. They subsequently graded gray backs for REA a week later.

I fought the charges on my credit card and won. I suggest you try the same.

[BobbyStrawberry]

What is going on over there? It seems like they are trying to run the business into the ground.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by JamesGallo

And that would be fine even though I find it to be silly. How can you go from grading a card type for 20+ years and then stop. Also would have been a simple response to the one card, still clueless on the T203 though

My only response to that is you don't have the knowledgeable staff anymore which goes back to them caring more about new crap then vintage but who knows really.

James G

James, that sucks, sorry to hear they did that to you.

As far as them not grading your T203 card, and giving you no reason why, I'm assuming the "Fowl Bawl" card you sent them is the same card/image as the very one Leon posted an image of, am I right? Assuming so, I'm going to go out on a limb here and pose a thought/question. Is it possible they declined to grade and encapsulate your T203 card because of the very politically incorrect, by today's standards, image on that card, and the idea(s) it portrays?

There's another current thread here elsewhere on the forum about possible players that some refuse to collect due to their not so nice actions and deeds. Is it possible one of the TPG's has gained a conscience and decided to no longer grade certain cards that may show what are nowadays unacceptable images and/or portray questionable ideas or topics? Once a TPG encapsulates such a card, the image/ideals portrayed on that card are now linked to that TPG, as long as the card remains in their holder. The TPG then may have just declined to give you the actual reason for not grading it so as to not publicly broadcast a possible change in their thinking, and maybe spark folks to go looking for other "not so nice" cards they had previously graded in the past, and then call them out on those. Would be interesting to see what the TPG would have done had you sent them a different T203 card to grade, without the quite obvious racial bias and imagery on the card you did send them.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BobC

James, that sucks, sorry to hear they did that to you.

As far as them not grading your T203 card, and giving you no reason why, I'm assuming the "Fowl Bawl" card you sent them is the same card/image as the very one Leon posted an image of, am I right? Assuming so, I'm going to go out on a limb here and pose a thought/question. Is it possible they declined to grade and encapsulate your T203 card because of the very politically incorrect, by today's standards, image on that card, and the idea(s) it portrays?

There's another current thread here elsewhere on the forum about possible players that some refuse to collect due to their not so nice actions and deeds. Is it possible one of the TPG's has gained a conscience and decided to no longer grade certain cards that may show what are nowadays unacceptable images and/or portray questionable ideas or topics? Once a TPG encapsulates such a card, the image/ideals portrayed on that card are now linked to that TPG, as long as the card remains in their holder. The TPG then may have just declined to give you the actual reason for not grading it so as to not publicly broadcast a possible change in their thinking, and maybe spark folks to go looking for other "not so nice" cards they had previously graded in the past, and then call them out on those. Would be interesting to see what the TPG would have done had you sent them a different T203 card to grade, without the quite obvious racial bias and imagery on the card you did send them.

Even the Vatican, when they censored classical art, just went around putting fig leaves over the naughty bits.

But perhaps such minimalist censorship is maybe not that possible to do in this case.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by raulus

Even the Vatican, when they censored classical art, just went around putting fig leaves over the naughty bits.

When it comes to statues I assume this meant drilling into the private parts to make those fig leaves stay on. I can only imagine that drilling hurts quite a bit.

Brian

[BobC]

Originally Posted by raulus

Even the Vatican, when they censored classical art, just went around putting fig leaves over the naughty bits.

But perhaps such minimalist censorship is maybe not that possible to do in this case.

Nic, why would you say it "is maybe not that possible" for a TPG to not want to encapsulate a card that has such an obvious racially derogatory image and connotation on it, or am I misunderstanding you? I could see not necessarily wanting to have my business name permanently associated with a card/item that many current or potential customers may find extremely offensive.

Or did you mean by your statement that in this case the TPG cannot just gloss over and more or less ignore the card's negative image and connotation, and really has no choice but to either refuse to grade such a card, thereby condemning the card's image and connotation, or go ahead and accept it for grading and apparently have no issue with the card's image and connotation? The TPG obviously can't go putting a proverbial "fig leaf" over parts of the card that may be seen negatively, and so they must make an "all or nothing" type decision in this case. Is that more like what you're trying to say?

As I asked in my last post, I wonder if the TPG's response to grading the OP's T203 card would have been different had he sent in a different T203 card without such a possibly negative image and connotation?

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by BobC

James, that sucks, sorry to hear they did that to you.

As far as them not grading your T203 card, and giving you no reason why, I'm assuming the "Fowl Bawl" card you sent them is the same card/image as the very one Leon posted an image of, am I right? Assuming so, I'm going to go out on a limb here and pose a thought/question. Is it possible they declined to grade and encapsulate your T203 card because of the very politically incorrect, by today's standards, image on that card, and the idea(s) it portrays?

There's another current thread here elsewhere on the forum about possible players that some refuse to collect due to their not so nice actions and deeds. Is it possible one of the TPG's has gained a conscience and decided to no longer grade certain cards that may show what are nowadays unacceptable images and/or portray questionable ideas or topics? Once a TPG encapsulates such a card, the image/ideals portrayed on that card are now linked to that TPG, as long as the card remains in their holder. The TPG then may have just declined to give you the actual reason for not grading it so as to not publicly broadcast a possible change in their thinking, and maybe spark folks to go looking for other "not so nice" cards they had previously graded in the past, and then call them out on those. Would be interesting to see what the TPG would have done had you sent them a different T203 card to grade, without the quite obvious racial bias and imagery on the card you did send them.

Umm That would certainly be taking it to a new level and would mean they would have to draw some type of crazy line in the sand. No more grading Cobbs. I highly doubt there was any thought to it. Either someone messed up or they just don't care. the only possible reason is I doubt they do custom inserts anymore but I think this is not a unique size card.

Thanks for trying to give them an out but yea no I dont' think that's it.

James G

[Johnny630]

Maybe their have been layoffs....no longer have the resources to look into this to see what it is. Idk

[BobC]

Originally Posted by JamesGallo

Umm That would certainly be taking it to a new level and would mean they would have to draw some type of crazy line in the sand. No more grading Cobbs. I highly doubt there was any thought to it. Either someone messed up or they just don't care. the only possible reason is I doubt they do custom inserts anymore but I think this is not a unique size card.

Thanks for trying to give them an out but yea no I dont' think that's it.

James G

Oh, I wasn't giving them an out, just thinking of a possible reason they may not have graded it for you. But regardless of that reasoning, they still should have given you full disclosure and reasoning as to why not.

And what I was suggesting was by no means saying they're looking to draw some crazy line in the sand. Cards of players like Cobb generally just show him posing or playing ball, nothing wrong with that. But maybe show an image of Cobb, or any other player, hitting or otherwise abusing or demeaning a minority person, now that is an entirely different story and issue for just that particular card/image, not for any other cards/images that player may appear on/in that don't have such potentially troubling images or connotations.

Is it likely that is the main reason they didn't grade your T203 card, I agree with you it is probably not. But it doesn't mean that refusing to grade it because of its potentially offensive nature to many is not a completely illogical and implausible reason for someone to not want to grade it as well. Just throwing it out there as part of the conversation that many people may never have considered or thought off.

Just look at our culture today. Say/do/show something that gets taken even the slightest bit the wrong way, and the next thing you know you're being attacked online and over social media and being treated like a pariah, which no business I've ever heard of would ever voluntarily want.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I hear Sgc is no longer Grading Blank Backs of any cards that have a standard back available.

Breakout cards on YouTube had this same issue with a I believe it was a ‘62 topps blank back.

Wow I hope that doesn't include the M101-4's as I have a near complete SGC set. No Babe Ruth (of course). They are more common in blank back.

[bobbyw8469]

Read my thread about the SGC group sub. I labeled the Ryan a Milton Bradley variation. The original submitter did as well. Whoever entered it in, missed it. Sometimes they simply have to realize that the submitters know more than the employee there does.