1914 Coupon Soaking

[PrewarCollective]

Let me preface this post with this: I am not soaking this card to grade or for monetary gain. I bought a t213 coupon that is glued to cardboard. It is currently in an authentic holder and I will be cracking for my binder. Can these coupons handle a soak to remove old glue and cardboard like the t206’s can? I’d love to get the cardboard off and put it in my binder. Any help is appreciated.

[Stonepony]

Years ago I briefly soaked a T213 in warm distilled water and it damaged the card. Can't remeber specifics.. ? faded

[FrankWakefield]

It certainly will soak.

Initially, watch what you're doing. There might be water soluble ink or paint somewhere on the wood (we have no description of the wood from you); the ink would show up in the water... if that is happening, set the would piece in a large water pan or whatever you're using, and tilt that. Have constantly running water if you can manage that, so the ink in the water is constantly washing away. [This paragraph ONLY APPLIES if there's ink or paint on that board, bleeding into the soaking water. Don't let this paragraph scare you.]

Soak it for a while... maybe even a couple of days. Change the water a few times.

Try not to tear the card as your impatient self tries to peel it off of the wood. Soak longer, be patient.

I'm curious... is the card attached to a small piece of wood, bottom half of the card stuck to the wood? I once bought a T213 like that, the card was glued to the wood with a non-water soluble glue... I had no success soaking it off, but I also didn't damage the card more than it already was.

[PrewarCollective]

No wood. Just old cardboard that it’s glued to but it is completely glued. The entire back is covered by cardboard

[rhettyeakley]

1914 Coupons with the glossy coating will do terrible if soaked!

The coating on them will turn hazy and leave you with a terrible looking card when done. You find T210’s like that sometimes for the same reason.

You could try to soak from the back to loosen the paper but I would NOT advise a “full soak”submerged in water.

[RCMcKenzie]

Agree with Dave and Rhett. I tried soaking a T213-2 once, and it badly faded the card.

[PrewarCollective]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Agree with Dave and Rhett. I tried soaking a T213-2 once, and it badly faded the card.

Any ideas on removing cardboard that’s covering the entire back?

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by PrewarCollective

Any ideas on removing cardboard that’s covering the entire back?

Frank may know a way to do it. Maybe a hairdryer to the back?

I still have the Davis that I soaked. Here it is...

[rhettyeakley]

If there is a way of removing the thickness of the cardboard slowly from the back side working towards the card without damaging the card itself…that is the way to go. Essentially reducing the cardboard to a thin sheet of paper attached to the back of the card then applying water directly to the back of the card to allow for the paste to be soluble in the water and breaking the bond by turning the solid paste back into a liquid phase would be the way to do it.

This will be very time consuming and difficult for even a trained/experienced restorer but is doable (depending on the paste/glue used)

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Frank may know a way to do it. Maybe a hairdryer to the back?

I still have the Davis that I soaked. Here it is...

Yeah that is exactly the “hazy” look I was talking about. It will forever be milky/hazy as a chemical reaction has changed the gloss on front.

[Jobu]

Is that Davis the result of a warm/hot water soak or a cold/room temp soak? I wonder if the temperature of the water might have played a role.

[FrankWakefield]

Well, if that hazy look you got after I responded, I feel badly about that.

If what you were removing from the back was a stuck bit of rubber band, then you could maybe put a bit of a nonpolar solvent on the end of a Q-Tip and gently rub to see if it loosened. If you put water only on the back, it will soak through to the coating on the front and cause or exacerbate the haze problem.

Did that Davis card look like that when you got it?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Well, if that hazy look you got after I responded, I feel badly about that.

If what you were removing from the back was a stuck bit of rubber band, then you could maybe put a bit of a nonpolar solvent on the end of a Q-Tip and gently rub to see if it loosened. If you put water only on the back, it will soak through to the coating on the front and cause or exacerbate the haze problem.

Did that Davis card look like that when you got it?

RCMcKenzie isn’t the original poster of the thread. I don’t beieve they have attempted anything as of yet so don’t feel bad. 😁

[RCMcKenzie]

Bryan, it was hot water. Cold water didn't work. Frank, it was around 8 years ago. I wouldn't soak this issue again, but it's just my opinion.

[brianp-beme]

V61 Neilson cards will also get this frosted over look, due to the gloss. I know because I soaked some many years ago, and ruined they became. What Rhett suggests is probably the only way you can make removal work.

Brian

[steve B]

That milky haze may be fixable.

That's very typical for shellack based coatings that get wet. The shellac absorbs moisture and gets cloudy like that.

While this advice is about fixing it on furniture, the bit about brushing on some alcohol might work. It would probably redissolve the glosscoat, allowing it to dry clear again.

I would consider it altered, as the glosscoat was essentially redistributed, but it sort of already is.

http://www.craftsman-style.info/fini...light%20touch.

[RCMcKenzie]

Steve, I took a watercolor brush and wiped the card down with rubbing alcohol. After 2 hours of drying, here it is. The film came off along with lots of dirt and grime.

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Steve, I took a watercolor brush and wiped the card down with rubbing alcohol. After 2 hours of drying, here it is. The film came off along with lots of dirt and grime.

wooooo thats great !!!

[brianp-beme]

What an improvement, but now we perhaps know how some color variations come into being...check out how the glove on the Davis card is now yellow.

I think I still have a V61 I destroyed with soaking. Perhaps someday I will give it a try and dry.

Brian

[steve B]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

What an improvement, but now we perhaps know how some color variations come into being...check out how the glove on the Davis card is now yellow.

I think I still have a V61 I destroyed with soaking. Perhaps someday I will give it a try and dry.

Brian

Probably an indication that at least one of the colors was also done with an ink that's shellac based.

Removing the wrecked gloss certainly improved the look, It should be possible to reconstitute it without removal. All things considered, the removal was probably best even if a red layer was lost as well.
It's also possible the darkening of the gloss coat accentuated an existing red that's still there.

[PrewarCollective]

The card came in today and I couldn’t help myself. Cracked it out of the slab, took a razor blade and started peeling off paper thin sheets of the cardboard until I was left with an almost transparent piece. Took a paintbrush and lightly brushed water on the remaining cardboard and slowly peeled it off. I’m extremely happy with the results! Here is the before and after pictures

[ullmandds]

Excellent work!

[rhettyeakley]

Looks good!

Glad that technique worked.

[Section103]

Excellent results. As I was reading through the thread, I was thinking I wouldnt touch it, but when I saw the card I too would have been compelled to do something with it. Better than I could have guessed.