Vaya con dios

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Dear Friends:

I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be going silent on the board for the foreseeable future. This decision is a hard one but is something that has been building for some time with me.

As much as I appreciate Leon’s Herculean effort to keep things on the board on a neutral keel, a number of the people here have become too shrill, strident, money-obsessed, self-righteous, confrontational and humorless for my tastes. It seems that discussions increasingly degenerate into hijacked threads of childish, vicious, off-topic personal attacks initiated by people with their own axes to grind or their own obvious personality disorders that really should be worked out in a therapeutic environment rather than on a baseball card chat board. It is tedious to read and unpleasant to be involved in directly.

I am not advocating censorship or asking people to leave (except in the most serious situations). Not only would that be impossible to do, my opinion has always been that everyone should be able to throw it out there as they wish provided that they are big boys and girls and take criticism if someone else disagrees with their OPINIONS. The flip side of that view is the freedom not to speak when the audience includes a few vendetta-driven borderline personalities whose standard response to everything is the ad hominem attack.

I’ve chosen to write to you directly and from the heart rather than continue in the escalating nastiness because I do not want to further fan the flames of idiocy that are threatening to engulf this board. I will tell you that I am not the only long-time board member who feels this way and that some of the formerly heavy posters of yesteryear are increasingly inactive for similar reasons.

I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of you and feel that when it rises above the behavior of certain participants, this board is a fantastic resource. I know I will continue to lurk here and appreciate the flow of solid information from the knowledgeable experts among us. Please always feel free to contact me in regard to boxing and Exhibit card questions, or to generally shoot the breeze. You can always reach me via email or through the vintage links listing to my web site.

Regards,


Adam

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Posted By: ItsOnlyGil

Sir:

I will miss your participation in what we share here. I understand that everyones contributions to this board are chiefly for the benefit of others, including a high percentage of the questions which are posed.

You have been an important part in our communication, and I hope that you will occasionally continue to offer your comment, insight and opinion.

I similarly note that the typed word results in a rather stark presentation, devoid of inflection, expression and other non-electronic communication forms available in personal discourse. Because of this status, it is very easy to misinterpert the intended meaning behind a statement. Complimenting this difficulty is my awareness that for me, a certain percentage of the things which I type, I later wish that I hadn't; or at least wish that I had exercised more care in my chosen sentence formulation.

But I easily dismiss these errors of mine, because I realize that I never pretended to be capable of flawless communication. And sometimes I just type something without adequately thinking about it first.

I applaud all of our fellow Forum participants for not taking offense in these instances of my being faster with the keyboard than with my mind. Particularly since the taking of offense seems to have become a popular societal sport.

I don't think that you got away so cleanly this time, Adam. Neither did Dan recently. And I recognize that it is more than a single incident which has prompted your choice.

Good luck, be well.
You have both friends and fans here.

Gilbert Maines

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Posted By: Chris

Adam,
This type of thing was precisely what I was talking about in my post "This board could be so much better". I felt like what you said was probably not the best choice for comparison but hey, you are human like all of us. I am sure it did offend some people but I am also sure you did not intend to do that. I also feel like some took it as a chance to belittle someone intentionally. We all make mistakes and I just feel it is always better to forgive and be nice than attack. Unfortunately in my post most seemed to think it was "normal" for these types of heated discussions and sadly I guess that has become normal in our world. Do you guys really think Charles Bray and Jefferson Burdick got into these types of heated discussions? I would guess not. Sure they may have disagreed on things but my guess is they mostly kept it civil and friendly. Sure we can disagree on things but let's live by the old agree to disagree saying instead of fighting until we insult someone for having a difference of opinion. I still feel like if people made a little more of an effort to respect other's opinions more and realize we all make mistakes it would be a much better place. I personally didn't read anything here for quite sometime because of all the negativity. There was a thread about being glad to be a vintage collector that turned into a discussion on how to build the hobby. Most seemed to be of the opinion that it was a tuff road ahead to do that. It surely is if we can't just be friendly. How many times have I heard how a kid got turned off to collecting because of the way he was treated by a dealer? Well it goes the same for a collector getting turned off by how he is treated by another collector. Some said this board is a lot better as far as attacks and bitterness than CU. That may be but why can't we be the best board period and bring more people into this hobby despite the many differences of opinions.

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Posted By: Chris

Well said Gilbert!

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Posted By: leonl

I for one will hate to see you go and hope you return soon. I have taken much of what you said, in different instances, and used that thinking to further the board. As I stated I did think your comment was in poor taste and I stand behind that. Not the end of the world though. I purposely let that thread go for a while so if you wanted to come clarify yourself or offer a little clarification, or apology for upsetting some folks, you could. I didn't ask you to or expect you to...but left the option open as long as I could. I personally think the board is better with you than without you and I will miss your commentary. Don't worry, I will call you sometime to just shoot the crap. Please come back when you feel you want to.....warm regards

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Posted By: Keith O'Leary

As with you two (Gil and Chris), I echo the same sentiments regarding Adam's post. Well said (all 3), I have nothing more to add to what these good people (Adam, Gil and Chris) have already typed. Ill miss your input on the board, but won't hesitate to email when I need your input again. Stay close, Keith

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Enough said.

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Posted By: Chad

But I've enjoyed Adam's posts, especially on the boxing cards, and hope this is just a decision made in a moment of passion, quickly to be rescinded and then laughed about. It was an offhand remark and my reaction was, "oof, I bet he regrets that!" and then moved on. (Man, I didn't think asking people if they won anything at Leland's would cause so much trouble!) For selfish reasons--besides baseball, my other sporting passion is boxing and, like the Negro League players I collect, the existence of all these cool boxing cards is an exciting discovery for me--I hope Adam sticks around and keeps posting.

--Chad

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Posted By: andy becker

ditto, what julie said.....but in a deep, masculine voice.

best wishes adam.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

The board has definitely become too sensitive and quick to attack recently.Its a hobby not a political,religious,etc forum and shouldnt be thought of any other way.I hate to see Adam go but can understand why he chose to,hopefully just for a short time.The personal arguments will always be around and rehashed whenever people see a small opening.That you cant change,its been going on since the fullcount days.You have to face it that theres people who dont get along here but their attacks are better left on personal levels rather than a public forum,of course public forums can do more damage to reputations so thats why they chose that venue.

I personally didnt find any fault with his statement and when people objected to it i went back to read it again,thinking maybe it was edited.There was no hate or ill-will behind what he wrote.People can find hidden messages in writing because emotions dont carry over so its hard to see what exactly they were saying but it all goes back to personal issues in this case and certain people know that.Thats no reason to lose one of the better long time posters on the board

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I, too, searched his post for offence, and found none.

Is it only me, or do others of you who have sent money for hurricane relief wonder what your money is doing RIGHT NOW?
Sorry--don't mean to hijkack thread, either.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I hate to see you go too. I'll miss the exhibit info. No one else seems to really know much about them. Just remember, much of PC crowd is also humor-challenged, as they would prefer to be called, rather than sourpusses.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Chris

Well put John. Chad I basically thought the same thing as you when I read Adam's post. Oooff! not the best choice but I too quickly got over it and realized he did not intend to offend anyone. We are all guilty at some point of being a little to quick with the typing. I like Leon was hoping Adam would apologize for it but can understand that being difficult when you feel like you are being attacked. I would imagine it would have been easier to apologize for offending some people if people had reacted a little different. With that said I believe some people were probably not really all that offended, they just saw an opportunity to be negative. You know Adam once went off about receiving christian lit with one of his card purcahses and me being a christian it somewhat offended me but I also respected his opinion and didn't post on the matter. We can all disagree with people but I just don't find we always have to reply to something with negativity. Can't we just let some things go? I can only remember once when I said something negative about someone else on here and regretted doing so and tried to apologize personally to that person as well as publically on the forum. Adam I do hope you will come back at some point and I also hope other people who contribute alot to this forum will try to be a little more understanding and patient to all of us as well have human flaws. No need to beat each other up over it.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I'll make this short and sweet. I agree with John. As some pretty new to the board I will miss Adam and his expert opinion. Hopefully he will return.

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Posted By: leon

I just posted a thread about losing this thread and it really just went real far down the page and I didn't see it. I deleted a lot of the posts and we are done with this one. I hope Adam joins in as soon as today...if he feels like it....or whenever he (hi Adam, hate talking about folks when they are reading it) decides to post again....regards ...moderator dude