Interesting Story

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2436136&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

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Posted By: cmoking

Interesting story, thanks for the link. Gotta go get Timothy Gay's book on Speaker now...sounds like he's got a lot of good stuff in there.

It makes me wonder though - will collectors 100 years from now look at the steroid era with the fondness that we collectors look at perhaps the "gambling era"?

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Posted By: Anonymous

Before you all scream, "foul!" bear in mind that in the game the previous day, it went extra innings until the game was declared a tie due to darkness. The Red Sox management, in their infinite wisdom, declared that the players were not entitled to any of the gate receipts because the game had not been decided. They decided to recoup their losses the next day.

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Posted By: Tim James

Barry Bonds has not failed a test,or been banned for use of drugs.All the speculation is just that !! I'm not taking his side,but when Hank approched the mark,he was berated in the same way,of sorts.Was he worthy of attaining the stature of home run king ? History prevailing,Hank is more than worthy,will Barry find the same ?

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Posted By: Seth B.

Bonds has admitted in sworn testimony to unknowingly taking steroids, which he thought at the time was sunflower oil or something like that. Aaron was despised because of his color, Bonds is despised because we think he hasn't reached this point fairly. Frankly, I think Bonds is an incredible hitter regardless, and I don't want to open another 200+ thread arguing the same thing.
I will say that the ESPN article, though, is apples and oranges with the current Bonds furor. The result of the Sox cheating was a one-day extension to the world series. No one performed beyond their natural capacities--in fact, Smokey Joe was playing a whole lot worse than he could have, presumably. Bonds, if steroids helped him, if he has been steroiding his entire prime, is the exact opposite: he cheated to help himself surpass his innate ability, something very different than Tris Speaker suspiciously dropping a few fly balls. Hey, I'm not saying throwing a game is a good thing, but it's a whole lot different than doping to pass records.

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Posted By: Tim James

With all respect to your view point,the bottom line is the that the man is attaining milestones,and our opinions mean nothing.Rules are rules,and until something is brought as "proof",the record will stand.I just can't help but seeing people trying to say "it's not the same" regarding players now as opposed to then.They said the same with Maris.We will never know what players now have as opposed to players in the early days that "enhanced" their play on the field.I wasn't able to respond to the mega-thread,but I would like to get my 2 cents worth in and end it right here.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

YoMass is right... the players were ticked about getting cheated out of money by managment, the day before.

Read the Cobb semiautobiography, the part about the betting and fixing, read that part in Gay's book, keep in mind how Cobb and Speaker both were "traded" to the A's on the heels of the mess, then get Mr. Ritter's CD The Glory of Their Times, and listen to pitcher Wood side step, tip toe around, and then jump into the matter of betting on games. It is a beautiful dialog between the two.

Who was that player that was out west, Landis wanted him back in Chicago to meet in the Commissioner's Office, and he didn't want to come back... "People have been known to disappear in Chicago." Or words to that effect.

A group of friends I have will occassionally call "Bull****" when one of us gets to embelishing a tale too much. I'm going to have to call Bull**** on Barry's #714. I figure he was good for about 400 of the HRs, and steroids gets the rest. Maybe I'm hardhearted, maybe 500 / 213 is the correct ratio.

Frank.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

I look forward to rereading The Glory Of Their Times, which features first-hand accounts by Joe Wood and Fred Snodgrass of the 1912 World Series. I agree with the contention that baseball has weathered far greater storms than the steroid scandal. Or should I say the Bonds scandal. Or should I say the scandal that gives Bonds haters an excuse to blame the whole mess on the Giants' surly slugger. You'd think from reading about the whole thing that Bonds is the only guy in baseball guilty of using steroids. Which certainly isn't the case. Like the Black Sox episode, somebody has to take the fall, and instead of going after the powers-that-be in baseball, the guys who let this thing happen on their watch, it's easier to find a guy like Bonds and rake him over the coals. Sounds like history repeating itself. Bonds might have the last laugh, though. Eighty-seven years after the 1919 World Series, cards of the long-maligned Shoeless Joe Jackson routinely outsell those of Cobb ande Speaker, who were clearly as good or better players than the infamous Black Sox slugger ...

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Posted By: Bob

Don't forget the mess in left field when the Royal Rooters paraded around the field only to see all their seats taken (they ALWAYS sat there) and caused the game to be postponed for a long time and Smokey Joe, who had warned up and was ready to go, was forced to sit there for almost an hour, then warm up again and pitch. Almost all writers of the day credited this fiasco with causing Joe's arm to go south and become injured, an injury from which his pitching career never recovered although he became a decent everyday outfielder with a decent batting average, good glove and still strong arm, just not strong enough to pitch. To say that Joe gave less than 100% that day is totally unfair and inaccurate. His going in to a full wind up with men on base might have been a combination of his panic at his sore arm and his concentration on that, a memory lapse with all the confusion attendant to the situtaion plus he might have been unable to pitch from the stretch because of the pain.